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#227 Mar 26 2012 at 9:13 PM Rating: Default
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
It's not a chance encounter when one of the parties followed the other for several minutes beforehand...


And there you go shifting from broad to specific. It's a chance encounter in that Zimmerman happened to be driving down the street when Martin was walking along it. What happened after that point flowed from that initial random encounter. Unless you're somehow arguing that Zimmerman started following Martin *before* he saw him on the street? Cause that would be neato in a "violating causality" kinda way, but also quite implausible.
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#228 Mar 26 2012 at 9:14 PM Rating: Decent
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One thing we can conclusively say is that Obammy has been bangin' ol' Trayvon's mom. Ol' Barry Hussein said if he had a son he'd have looked like Trayvon, but apparently his ******* can only produce girls. Just sayin'.
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#229 Mar 26 2012 at 9:31 PM Rating: Good
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It isn't a chance encounter regardless of whether or not you are considering encounter to be broad or specific (I was assuming that you had not changed your usage).

In the broad sense, it is not a chance encounter because Zimmerman was patrolling the neighborhood, on the lookout for anyone he considered suspicious. He was actively seeking out people. Martin, a black teen wearing a hoodie and chatting on his phone, was apparently sufficiently suspicious. Yeah, in a really meaningless way it's a "chance" encounter. If I go deer hunting, and shoot a deer, it's by chance. No one should be surprised if I come back with one, though (excusing for the fact that I would never have the skill to successfully complete that hunt).

In the specific sense, referring to the fight, it is not a chance encounter because Zimmerman had already singled Martin out and, regardless of whether or not he began the fight, had certainly set into motion the events that would lead to one.

And, again, we are saying that we don't care if Martin started the fight. We don't care if Martin had the upper-hand in said fight when he was shot. We don't care if Martin went for Zimmerman's gun.

Our point is that Zimmerman had presented himself as a significant threat to Martin, regardless of whether or not he realized he was doing it, which voids his ability to claim self defense. The altercation between them, regardless of who threw the first punch, is directly related to Zimmerman's choice to follow Martin in his car, despite the request from the police that he not do that.

Had he listened to that dispatcher, Trayvon Martin would be alive today.

That's the point.
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#230 Mar 26 2012 at 9:48 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
It just sounds like you're trying to come up with excuses to explain Martin's behavior, but those excuses are getting more and more bizarre and unlikely as more facts about this case appear. You should step back from the issue for a second and ask what your position would be if you'd just heard about this for the first time today. I honestly believe that most people are continuing to insist that Zimmerman should be arrested not because of the facts of the case, but because they adopted that position a week or so ago when all they knew was a slanted view presented by the Martin's lawyer and now they don't want to face the possibility that something they felt so strongly about was wrong.

An unarmed teenager was shot and killed by a vigilante. If I had just heard this story today with no other information, I would absolutely be cheering on the message that armed civilians can roam the streets, taking the law into their own hands and oppressing the black population at will.

Smiley: rolleyes
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#231 Mar 26 2012 at 10:16 PM Rating: Default
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Where's all the sanctimonious self-righteous indignation about all the black-on-black violence out there? One dope smoking, hoodie wearing, kid gets gunned down after he gashes the head and breaks the nose of a neighborhood watchman and y'all are ready to form a lynchmob to kill the Jewish Mexican. Racists.
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#232 Mar 26 2012 at 10:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't understand why Zimmerman followed him. I don't understand why Martin running away wasn't exactly what a Neighborhood Watch wants to happen. You scared the supposed bad guy away. Good job! I don't understand why Zimmerman says to the cop on the phone, "These punks always get away." He didn't see Martin do anything, what would he be getting away with?
#233 Mar 26 2012 at 10:39 PM Rating: Decent
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C'mon, Bel. Zimmerman is exactly the kind of guy you want in your neighborhood. He keeps the crime down, keeps the undesirables out by eyeballin' them, reports suspicious activity to the police, all the stuff that keeps your house safe from burglars, prevents vandals tagging your privacy fence, stops kids tearing up and down the street at all hours of the night in their Mom's car, keeps drug deals from happening on the corner. The kids should have taken off his hoodie, shown him his empty hands, and led Zimmerman to his Dad's house. That'd be the end of the story, but it sounds like he got hostile and paid the price, regardless of his rights.

Step off the curb when the crosswalk says walk while a Mack truck is barreling down the street still makes you dead. Dead right, but still dead. The kid didn't employ common sense and likely paid for it with his life.
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#234 Mar 26 2012 at 10:42 PM Rating: Good
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Totem wrote:
He keeps the crime down, keeps the undesirables out by eyeballin' them stalking them in his car, then chasing them down when they run away, then shooting them when they lash out in fright.


Personally, I'd be afraid that the paranoid guy with a gun calling himself "Neighborhood Watch Captain" would shoot me when I took my dog out because I forgot to scoop her ****.
#235 Mar 26 2012 at 10:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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Totem wrote:
He keeps the crime down,

Well, pending the status of the case against him.
#236 Mar 26 2012 at 10:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm older than Zimmerman is, and I wear a hoodie. Would I be allowed to wear a hoodie around my own neighborhood without getting harassed?
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#237 Mar 27 2012 at 1:26 AM Rating: Decent
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Belkira wrote:
I don't understand why Zimmerman followed him. I don't understand why Martin running away wasn't exactly what a Neighborhood Watch wants to happen. You scared the supposed bad guy away. Good job! I don't understand why Zimmerman says to the cop on the phone, "These punks always get away." He didn't see Martin do anything, what would he be getting away with?
If you listen to the full call to the cops when Zimmerman reports seeing Martin on the street, Zimmerman opens almost immediately with: "There have been a string of burglaries in the neighbourhood recently".

I am certain that this is what he is referring to when he later says; "These ***-holes always get away with it".
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#238 Mar 27 2012 at 5:53 AM Rating: Good
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Totem wrote:
C'mon, Bel. Zimmerman is exactly the kind of guy you want in your neighborhood. He keeps the crime down, keeps the undesirables out by eyeballin' them, reports suspicious activity to the police, all the stuff that keeps your house safe from burglars, prevents vandals tagging your privacy fence, stops kids tearing up and down the street at all hours of the night in their Mom's car, keeps drug deals from happening on the corner. The kids should have taken off his hoodie, shown him his empty hands, and led Zimmerman to his Dad's house. That'd be the end of the story, but it sounds like he got hostile and paid the price, regardless of his rights.

Step off the curb when the crosswalk says walk while a Mack truck is barreling down the street still makes you dead. Dead right, but still dead. The kid didn't employ common sense and likely paid for it with his life.


Trolling aside, you're about as dumb as ******* Gbaji.
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gbaji wrote:
You guys keep tossing facts out there like they mean something.


#239 Mar 27 2012 at 6:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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Ha, never believe it, Ducks. If you're thinking Totem is stupid, check for the hook in your mouth. Smiley: laugh

Came to say what Allegory said, la~.
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#240 Mar 27 2012 at 6:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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You're out of practice, Toto. This is reeking of effort on your part.
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#241 Mar 27 2012 at 7:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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Totem wrote:
Where's all the sanctimonious self-righteous indignation about all the black-on-black violence out there?
Apparently he's still muted.
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#242 Mar 27 2012 at 7:14 AM Rating: Good
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Belkira wrote:
Totem wrote:
He keeps the crime down, keeps the undesirables out by eyeballin' them stalking them in his car, then chasing them down when they run away, then shooting them when they lash out in fright.


Personally, I'd be afraid that the paranoid guy with a gun calling himself "Neighborhood Watch Captain" would shoot me when I took my dog out because I forgot to scoop her ****.

This. It's not so much about whether or not Martin was doing anything wrong or not. It's that Zimmerman decided Martin was and decided to follow and then kill him. He's not a cop, this is not his call to make. There's just all kinds of wrong with what Zimmerman did.

Also, what Joph said. Bad show, Totem.
#243 Mar 27 2012 at 7:15 AM Rating: Good
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Belkira wrote:
I don't understand why Zimmerman followed him. I don't understand why Martin running away wasn't exactly what a Neighborhood Watch wants to happen. You scared the supposed bad guy away. Good job! I don't understand why Zimmerman says to the cop on the phone, "These punks always get away." He didn't see Martin do anything, what would he be getting away with?


I try my best to understand by looking at things through Zimmerman's perspective. Imagine being a fat 30 year old Florida man. Perhaps, as a child, you wanted to grow up and become a police officer. As an alter boy, you were molested repeatedly by groups of strange men, possibly black men. Being the loathsome worthless pile that you are, you feel the need to look down on other people in order to make yourself feel not-so-worthless. You're too stupid to be a police officer, so you become a Neighborhood Watchman for the local Homeowner Association.

Now you can treat random people like criminals and pretend to have the law in your hands!

Well, as good as it was, calling 911 and wasting the time of the police on a whim just isn't thrilling enough. You've played enough Grand Theft Auto to know how police are supposed to react to a situation. Why, look at the scrawny black kid over there...
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#244 Mar 27 2012 at 7:49 AM Rating: Decent
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Today I learned that to combat vigilante justice, you use more vigilante justice.
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#245 Mar 27 2012 at 8:10 AM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Today I learned that to combat vigilante justice, you use more vigilante justice.


Daily Show?

The fiance was surprised that there was a new Black Panther group. I suggested that I'd go and get in a fight in their midst, so I could say "Sorry I had to fight in the middle of your New Black Panther party."
#246 Mar 27 2012 at 10:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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/deflates
You guys have either gotten more cynical or more wiley since I've been away, because you used to be a lot easier to pull.
/kicks the dirt at his feet and wanders off

Totem
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#247 Mar 27 2012 at 10:37 AM Rating: Good
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Totem wrote:
/deflates
You guys have either gotten more cynical or more wiley since I've been away, because you used to be a lot easier to pull.
/kicks the dirt at his feet and wanders off

Totem

You're just rusty. Keep at it and you'll be back up to speed in no time.
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#248 Mar 27 2012 at 10:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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Or you've just gotten worse.

Just accept the fact that you've lost your edge and retire gracefully, old man. Time to sunset your career.
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#249 Mar 27 2012 at 10:45 AM Rating: Good
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There's a thing called tact Joph. Smiley: glare
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IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people

lolgaxe wrote:
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#250 Mar 27 2012 at 10:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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If he kills himself, he'll make some people feel bad about remembering just how badly he failed.
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#251 Mar 27 2012 at 1:41 PM Rating: Good
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I emailed the Governor Scott to ask him why Zimmerman wasn't arrested. Here's the response. If you want any of the attachments let me know I can post them as separate docs or just forward you the entire email.

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Governor Rick Scott
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To Governor Rick Scott
From: Governor Rick Scott (Rick.Scott@eog.myflorida.com)
Sent: Sat 3/24/12 10:08 AM
To: Governor Rick Scott (Rick.Scott@eog.myflorida.com)
3 attachments | Download all as zip (2.1 MB)
3.22.2012WolfingerLetter.pdf (40.4 KB) , Executive Order 12-72.pdf (2.0 MB) , Memo to Commissioner Bailey Re Trayvon Martin.pdf (33.3 KB)

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Thank you for contacting Governor Rick Scott's office and sharing your concerns about the death of Trayvon Martin. The Governor asked that I respond on his behalf.

Governor Scott supports a full and fair investigation into all of the circumstances surrounding Trayvon’s death. For this reason, Governor Scott has asked the Florida Department of Law Enforcement to provide any assistance necessary to fully investigate the matter.

Additionally, Norman R. Wolfinger, State Attorney for Brevard and Seminole Counties, in the interest of the public safety of the citizens of Seminole County, and to avoid the appearance of a conflict of interest, requested the Governor make an executive assignment of another state attorney for the investigation, and any prosecution arising from the circumstances surrounding the death of Trayvon Martin. As a result of this request, the Honorable Angela Corey, State Attorney for the Fourth Judicial Circuit of Florida, agreed to accept an executive assignment in this matter.

Further, Governor Scott, after listening to many concerned citizens in recent days, has asked Lieutenant Governor Jennifer Carroll to lead a Task force on Citizen Safety and Protection. The Task Force’s purpose is to investigate how to make sure a tragedy such as this does not occur in the future, while at the same time protecting the fundamental rights of all of our citizens – especially the right to feel protected and safe in our state.

Thank you again for taking the time to contact the Governor's Office about this important issue. Governor Scott hopes that this matter is resolved in a just manner and appreciates your concern over this incident.

Sincerely,

Warren Davis
Office of Citizen Services
Executive Office of the Governor
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