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SCotUS to Look at Affirmative Action (Kind Of)Follow

#27 Feb 25 2012 at 10:33 AM Rating: Decent
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Atomic Flee wrote:
No one is saying that white skin equates success, but to close your eyes to the fact that being white (or male, for that matter) has no underlying contribution to any success you enjoy is living in a fantasy world.


This
#28 Feb 25 2012 at 10:53 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm well aware that any scant success I may enjoy can be directly attributed to my status as a white, middle-class male.
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#29 Feb 25 2012 at 11:01 AM Rating: Good
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Atomicflea wrote:
No one is saying that white skin equates success, but to close your eyes to the fact that being white (or male, for that matter) has no underlying contribution to any success you enjoy is living in a fantasy world.


I'll contribute much of my success in school/college and by extension career to the subjects I enjoyed and how easily they came to me and my parents' willingness to sacrifice for the betterment of my future. But I don't think anyone is saying those qualities come with race or ***. Certainly not "a lot" of my success being contributed to my ***/race instead of earning it through work, as Omegavegeta stated..
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#30 Feb 25 2012 at 11:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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Debalic wrote:
I'm well aware that any scant success I may enjoy can be directly attributed to my status as a white, middle-class male.

Well, for you, yeah.

Hippy.
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#31 Feb 25 2012 at 11:19 AM Rating: Decent
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TirithRR wrote:
Atomicflea wrote:
No one is saying that white skin equates success, but to close your eyes to the fact that being white (or male, for that matter) has no underlying contribution to any success you enjoy is living in a fantasy world.


I'll contribute much of my success in school/college and by extension career to the subjects I enjoyed and how easily they came to me and my parents' willingness to sacrifice for the betterment of my future. But I don't think anyone is saying those qualities come with race or ***. Certainly not "a lot" of my success being contributed to my ***/race instead of earning it through work, as Omegavegeta stated..


That's nice that you believe that, but it simply isn't true. Society has created gender roles for jobs and you're blind if you think otherwise.
#32 Feb 25 2012 at 11:30 AM Rating: Decent
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********* I am not going to pretend that race and gender does not give a leg up, but it no way dictates what an individual can do. At one point women couldn't be in politics, yet after years of women getting better at politics, and building on foundations of other women, and studying politics to excel at it, we have women all over the world in politics, many nations with women as their Chief Politician.

While race and *** does have a slight impact, good work ethic, personal commitment, and a desire to achieve will always have a larger impact on success.
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#33 Feb 25 2012 at 11:31 AM Rating: Good
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Almalieque wrote:
TirithRR wrote:
Atomicflea wrote:
No one is saying that white skin equates success, but to close your eyes to the fact that being white (or male, for that matter) has no underlying contribution to any success you enjoy is living in a fantasy world.


I'll contribute much of my success in school/college and by extension career to the subjects I enjoyed and how easily they came to me and my parents' willingness to sacrifice for the betterment of my future. But I don't think anyone is saying those qualities come with race or ***. Certainly not "a lot" of my success being contributed to my ***/race instead of earning it through work, as Omegavegeta stated..


That's nice that you believe that, but it simply isn't true. Society has created gender roles for jobs and you're blind if you think otherwise.

The term "gender role" is so out dated. It's more of a "genitalia role". Smiley: nod
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#34 Feb 25 2012 at 11:34 AM Rating: Decent
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Ya I know a few dudes (with penises) that are a lot more effeminate then women (with vaginas) I know . I totally agree with the above changes to the terminology.
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#35 Feb 25 2012 at 11:37 AM Rating: Default
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Almalieque wrote:
TirithRR wrote:
Atomicflea wrote:
No one is saying that white skin equates success, but to close your eyes to the fact that being white (or male, for that matter) has no underlying contribution to any success you enjoy is living in a fantasy world.


I'll contribute much of my success in school/college and by extension career to the subjects I enjoyed and how easily they came to me and my parents' willingness to sacrifice for the betterment of my future. But I don't think anyone is saying those qualities come with race or ***. Certainly not "a lot" of my success being contributed to my ***/race instead of earning it through work, as Omegavegeta stated..


That's nice that you believe that, but it simply isn't true. Society has created gender roles for jobs and you're blind if you think otherwise.


Society may have influence in what paths are expected, but it didn't make me good at it or make me succeed. Just because society says Controls Engineers are supposed to be male didn't make the subject come easy to me. I enjoyed it and was good at it (Naturally good at it). Being male didn't make me good at it. Being male didn't make my parents willing to go without for so long so I could end up in a better position (I'm not from China).
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#36 Feb 25 2012 at 11:39 AM Rating: Decent
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Huzzah fellow Controller!.
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#37 Feb 25 2012 at 11:43 AM Rating: Good
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Huzzah fellow Controller!.


I'm playing with a few robots with 15 inch saw blades right now. They are kicking my *** (Not fair though, they are well armed).
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#38 Feb 25 2012 at 11:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm amused at how "has no underlying contribution" has turned into "is the primary cause".
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#39 Feb 25 2012 at 11:45 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
I'm amused at how "has no underlying contribution" has turned into "is the primary cause".


My comments are directly in response to Omegavegeta's quote in my first post.
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#40 Feb 25 2012 at 11:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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Well, I for one am happy that women have been able to overcome the handicap of having vaginas by taking some poli sci classes. That's just... neat.

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#41 Feb 25 2012 at 12:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't have a strong opinion either way. Affirmative Action isn't a real button issue with me.

I'm a bad liberal


Nah, most white liberals aren't that interested in affirmative action at this point. I mean, you voted for Obama, right? No more effort on race issues is required.
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#42 Feb 25 2012 at 12:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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#43 Feb 25 2012 at 1:31 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
I'm amused at how "has no underlying contribution" has turned into "is the primary cause".


Tirith's posts remind me of that guy who says 'SO MUCH FOR GLOBAL WARMING' every time it's even slightly cold.
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#44 Feb 25 2012 at 1:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Kavekk wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
I'm amused at how "has no underlying contribution" has turned into "is the primary cause".


Tirith's posts remind me of that guy who says 'SO MUCH FOR GLOBAL WARMING' every time it's even slightly cold.


More like I was warning the guy who says "OMG GLOBAL WARMING" when it gets warm in the summer that "Hey that may not be the best way to go about getting support for your side."

Like I said, I was telling Omegavegeta that belittling hard work of a white person and saying they are there because they are white is not a good way to get people to agree with him.

Of course, Flea decided that me likening someone telling a white male they are there because they are white to someone telling a woman they are there because they are attractive without so much as a hint as to their origins was such horrible thing.
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#45 Feb 25 2012 at 2:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm of the mind that the goal should be to prop up everyone who's shut out by being too poor, or without the opportunity for education. There are plenty of disenfranchised whites out there, too. I don't think our approach should be "Ah, fuck 'em. They're white...they should be able to go it alone."
#46 Feb 25 2012 at 2:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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Eske Esquire wrote:
I'm of the mind that the goal should be to prop up everyone who's shut out by being too poor, or without the opportunity for education. There are plenty of disenfranchised whites out there, too. I don't think our approach should be "Ah, fuck 'em. They're white...they should be able to go it alone."

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Jophiel wrote:
Last week, I saw a guy with an eyepatch and a gold monocle and pointed him out to Flea as one of the most awesome things I've seen, ever. If I had an eyepatch and a gold monocle, I'd always dress up as Mr. Peanut but with a hook hand and a parrot.
#47 Feb 25 2012 at 3:01 PM Rating: Good
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Friar Bijou wrote:
Eske Esquire wrote:
I'm of the mind that the goal should be to prop up everyone who's shut out by being too poor, or without the opportunity for education. There are plenty of disenfranchised whites out there, too. I don't think our approach should be "Ah, fuck 'em. They're white...they should be able to go it alone."



The real problem is those very disenfranchised whites are the most vocal opponents of any sort of help for anyone, anywhere, from the government. Even if many of them are already using that help.
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#48 Feb 25 2012 at 3:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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catwho wrote:
Friar Bijou wrote:
Eske Esquire wrote:
I'm of the mind that the goal should be to prop up everyone who's shut out by being too poor, or without the opportunity for education. There are plenty of disenfranchised whites out there, too. I don't think our approach should be "Ah, fuck 'em. They're white...they should be able to go it alone."


The real problem is those very disenfranchised whites are the most vocal opponents of any sort of help for anyone, anywhere, from the government. Even if many of them are already using that help.

That's an awfuly wide brush you're painting with, there.Smiley: dubious
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Jophiel wrote:
Last week, I saw a guy with an eyepatch and a gold monocle and pointed him out to Flea as one of the most awesome things I've seen, ever. If I had an eyepatch and a gold monocle, I'd always dress up as Mr. Peanut but with a hook hand and a parrot.
#49 Feb 25 2012 at 10:37 PM Rating: Good
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TirithRR wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
TirithRR wrote:
Atomicflea wrote:
No one is saying that white skin equates success, but to close your eyes to the fact that being white (or male, for that matter) has no underlying contribution to any success you enjoy is living in a fantasy world.


I'll contribute much of my success in school/college and by extension career to the subjects I enjoyed and how easily they came to me and my parents' willingness to sacrifice for the betterment of my future. But I don't think anyone is saying those qualities come with race or ***. Certainly not "a lot" of my success being contributed to my ***/race instead of earning it through work, as Omegavegeta stated..


That's nice that you believe that, but it simply isn't true. Society has created gender roles for jobs and you're blind if you think otherwise.


Society may have influence in what paths are expected, but it didn't make me good at it or make me succeed. Just because society says Controls Engineers are supposed to be male didn't make the subject come easy to me. I enjoyed it and was good at it (Naturally good at it). Being male didn't make me good at it. Being male didn't make my parents willing to go without for so long so I could end up in a better position (I'm not from China).


You're absolutely correct in that it didn't make you smarter or understand anything any easier. However, that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about you getting hired. When people think a specific job, people envision a certain person and that certain person is more likely to get the job than someone who doesn't fit that description. It isn't always intentional, but it's reality.

When I worked at McDonald's, people starting positions were determined first by ***, then my race then by attractiveness. All males tend to start in the back, all females tend to start up at the front or drive through. If it were two people of the same ***, then the white people would start up in the front/drive through window. If they were the same *** and race then the more "attractive" person would be up front.

Of course this wasn't official, but it was obvious. In the entire time that I worked there, every black male had started in the grill. I thought this was only at that store, but as you start looking at other jobs, you can see a similar pattern.
#50 Feb 26 2012 at 12:51 AM Rating: Good
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When Alma says that something was obvious to him, I naturally assume that he completely misjudged the situation.

I'd wager that was actually one of the most racially proactive McDonald's in the world.

Edited, Feb 26th 2012 1:51am by Eske
#51 Feb 26 2012 at 1:13 AM Rating: Default
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Eske Esquire wrote:
When Alma says that something was obvious to him, I naturally assume that he completely misjudged the situation.

I'd wager that was actually one of the most racially proactive McDonald's in the world.

Edited, Feb 26th 2012 1:51am by Eske


Then that would make you a horrible wager.

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