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Mid weekend update!Follow

#1 Feb 19 2012 at 8:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hah! no one was expecting the dreaded middle of the long weekend update thread! tell us not what your plans are, but what you did I guess?

Anyone haveing a particularily interesting weekend of doom so far?

I just did my taxes, which at least gets them out of the way!
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#2 Feb 19 2012 at 9:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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Tomorrow, The Man and I are headed to the other side of the island. I am taking an assessment test at the post office to try and snag a cushy government job. And we're going to laze on the beach the rest of the time.

Today, we bought a new futon mattress, which I am very excited about. I may get my first good night's sleep in this apartment tonight. :D
#3 Feb 19 2012 at 9:17 PM Rating: Default
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unfortunately Ive been light on the doom and heavy on the work. But I do have monday off!
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#4 Feb 19 2012 at 9:23 PM Rating: Good
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I was so confused by this post, because I had no clue tomorrow was President's Day. Don't get off for it, so my weekend isn't long. :(
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#5 Feb 19 2012 at 9:27 PM Rating: Good
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
I was so confused by this post, because I had no clue tomorrow was President's Day.
^ this.
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#6 Feb 19 2012 at 9:41 PM Rating: Decent
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Does anyone get President's Day off that doesn't work for the government?
#7 Feb 19 2012 at 11:13 PM Rating: Good
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Don't get off for it,
Come on, diggs, there are plenty of sites on the internet that can help accommodate that, holiday or not.
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#8 Feb 19 2012 at 11:17 PM Rating: Good
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Turin wrote:
Does anyone get President's Day off that doesn't work for the government?


Union peeps. Smiley: lol
#9 Feb 19 2012 at 11:17 PM Rating: Good
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
I was so confused by this post, because I had no clue tomorrow was President's Day. Don't get off for it, so my weekend isn't long. :(


It's like you can read my mind.

Get the **** out of my head.
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#10 Feb 19 2012 at 11:28 PM Rating: Good
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Turin wrote:
Does anyone get President's Day off that doesn't work for the government?


I'm off, for some reason. Or at least, I think I'm off. Now I'm second guessing myself. No, I'm pretty sure I'm off.

I'll find out otherwise if I get an angry call from my boss, I guess.

I wish that next weekend was the long one. I've got jack squat to do this weekend. Was trying to write a retort to this bit from David Jaffe, but it opened up too big a can of worms, so I tabled it for now. I'm reviewing Syndicate this coming week, and would have loved a long weekend to play it.

Between work, night classes, and MMA, I don't get home till around 10 each night. Gonna have to make some time to play for the review.

Edited, Feb 20th 2012 12:32am by Eske
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#11 Feb 20 2012 at 12:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'd be more upset by Jaffe's thing if I could find a hint of a point within his stream of consciousness babbling.
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#12 Feb 20 2012 at 1:19 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
I'd be more upset by Jaffe's thing if I could find a hint of a point within his stream of consciousness babbling.


That's a large portion of the problem. I'd find a point to harp on, then reread his speech and find that he contradicted himself just a few minutes later.

"Games are a terrible medium for telling stories..."

(Two paragraphs later)

"Now, I'm not saying that games shouldn't tell stories. I've played some games that tell some great stories."

Etc. etc. I think that I'm partly annoyed by the fact that I'm having to translate his own argument for him before I can even begin the rebuttal. Not a good way to start an editorial.

If you run it through some filters, it seems like you can distill his point down to saying that "if a designer's only goal at the onset of the design process is to tell linear narrative, then he should just write a book."

Dunno if I agree with that. I've been led to believe that the design process can be fluid and unpredictable from my arch. education. You can do your damndest to make something that achieves a particular goal, but have it succeed for entirely different ones, sometimes by no more than happy accident.

That's only one of the angles that I could take. Trying to sort out all the particulars got rather overwhelming. I feel like I could write volumes about this stuff, but it's all overkill for the hypothetical article. I'm having trouble focusing.

Probably best to let it marinate.

Edited, Feb 20th 2012 2:20am by Eske
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#13 Feb 20 2012 at 8:03 AM Rating: Good
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This weekend has been all about how Jonwin has been up and about and only needing my help when the pain get bad enough that he need to take his pain pills.

He is off work for the next several weeks to 3 months. I took today off from going in to my therapy group to make sure he has everything taken care of and gets to a lab so to have some blood drawn.I expect he'll be on the phone a lot to day with calls to his lawyer, the workman's comp insurance and arranging rides to both the lab and his PT appointments.

I do get to take long naps and sleep in the days I stay home, so all is good for me.
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#14 Feb 20 2012 at 10:12 AM Rating: Good
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#15 Feb 20 2012 at 11:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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Eske Esquire wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
I'd be more upset by Jaffe's thing if I could find a hint of a point within his stream of consciousness babbling.


That's a large portion of the problem. I'd find a point to harp on, then reread his speech and find that he contradicted himself just a few minutes later.

"Games are a terrible medium for telling stories..."

(Two paragraphs later)

"Now, I'm not saying that games shouldn't tell stories. I've played some games that tell some great stories."

Etc. etc. I think that I'm partly annoyed by the fact that I'm having to translate his own argument for him before I can even begin the rebuttal. Not a good way to start an editorial.

If you run it through some filters, it seems like you can distill his point down to saying that "if a designer's only goal at the onset of the design process is to tell linear narrative, then he should just write a book."

Dunno if I agree with that. I've been led to believe that the design process can be fluid and unpredictable from my arch. education. You can do your damndest to make something that achieves a particular goal, but have it succeed for entirely different ones, sometimes by no more than happy accident.

That's only one of the angles that I could take. Trying to sort out all the particulars got rather overwhelming. I feel like I could write volumes about this stuff, but it's all overkill for the hypothetical article. I'm having trouble focusing.

Probably best to let it marinate.

Edited, Feb 20th 2012 2:20am by Eske


He contradicts himself all over the place.

I think I get some of what he's saying, but he's using a broadsword instead of a scalpel. I think he's saying that games don't necessarily have to TELL the story, don't have to dictate the only way a story can go, because a game is not necessarily the best medium for that. For a specific, author-driven, preset plot, books and movies are better media. For an open-ended, player-driven narrative, some games do a very good job - because the developers don't tell the story. They set the world in motion and let the player choose how it goes. That is, arguably, one reason why games like Skyrim and Deus Ex are so compelling and replayable.

Mixed in with that is his opinion, which I share, that games that are made from movies and comics are inherently problematic.
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#16 Feb 20 2012 at 11:05 AM Rating: Decent
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My mom was supposed to go down to Maryland to visit my ailing sister for the week, so my wife invited her brother up to the house for the week. Mom got sick the day she was supposed to leave. I got sick later that day. Jacob has a cold. Most everyone in the house is sick and miserable.

I have today off because the banks are closed and I keep bank hours.
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#17 Feb 20 2012 at 11:11 AM Rating: Excellent
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Well, both Arkham Asylum & Arkham City were critical and player-driven hits. Despite being very linear and story-driven*. I can see where an individual may not care for them but there's no denying their success.

Likewise, Metro 2033 was adapted from a novel. I haven't read it so I can't say how much it deviates but the game itself is extremely on rails (I'm the first person ever to make that pun). Still, it was very atmospheric and I greatly enjoyed it. Game play was nothing special but I've yet to see the FPS that counts as "special" for mechanics**. The setting and the story were very engaging. As opposed to Homefront which had an interesting idea and did nothing with it leaving you with a pretty dull FPS competing in a saturated field of FPS's.

So... ummm... assuming that was his point, I don't very much agree with it.

*The "Easy" setting being called "Tell me a story"
** I suppose Portal would count for varying definitions of "First Person Shooter"
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#18 Feb 20 2012 at 11:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah, I could be completely off the mark. I assume he was more coherent in person, with inflections and so forth.

I tend to enjoy more open-ended games like Morrowind and Skyrim, both Elder Scrolls games. On the other hand, Dragon Age was one of the most replayable games I've ever had, and its story line was much more linear. The ending was ultimately predetermined, but the player still had a lot of input in how the story played out - there was going to be a ruler, no matter what; but you chose who that would be.

And the Thief line of stories were taken from an entire genre of books, arguably (as many games have been), and are among my favorites ever.
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#19 Feb 20 2012 at 11:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Well, both Arkham Asylum & Arkham City were critical and player-driven hits. Despite being very linear and story-driven*. I can see where an individual may not care for them but there's no denying their success.

Likewise, Metro 2033 was adapted from a novel. I haven't read it so I can't say how much it deviates but the game itself is extremely on rails (I'm the first person ever to make that pun). Still, it was very atmospheric and I greatly enjoyed it. Game play was nothing special but I've yet to see the FPS that counts as "special" for mechanics**. The setting and the story were very engaging. As opposed to Homefront which had an interesting idea and did nothing with it leaving you with a pretty dull FPS competing in a saturated field of FPS's.

So... ummm... assuming that was his point, I don't very much agree with it.

*The "Easy" setting being called "Tell me a story"
** I suppose Portal would count for varying definitions of "First Person Shooter"

Sexay as ever. I woke up at four every day this past weekend including today. Did laundry, balanced the checkbook, knit a dinosaur, choreographed for my troupe and generally kicked *** at wife-and-mothering. Except for the part when my youngest split his head like a melon and I discovered the ennui I routinely deployed when in the presence of dead bodies completely escapes me when one of my own spills 1/10 or a drop of blood.
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#20 Feb 20 2012 at 11:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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I played Skyrim! Smiley: laugh
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#21 Feb 20 2012 at 11:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jesus Christ, it's like you're a ******* admiral. How many posts you up to?
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#22 Feb 20 2012 at 11:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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31.
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#23 Feb 20 2012 at 11:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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I... don't think admirals get that many stars. There must be some uber-rank above that.
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#24 Feb 20 2012 at 12:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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Apparently, according to wiki, the title of Maréchal de France is awarded as a distinction, rather than a rank. The marshals wear seven stars and carry a baton.

So congrats, I guess. Frenchie.
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#25 Feb 20 2012 at 12:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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#26 Feb 20 2012 at 12:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Do you hear the people sing? Singing the songs of angry men...
This would put you in the river, Inspector Javert.
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#27 Feb 20 2012 at 4:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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I somehow managed to twist my knee Saturday afternoon, so I spent most of it with a doctor and it's still swollen to the size of a grapefruit. Spent the last two days playing on some educational game webpage with my daughter and watching Disney and Disney-esque movies.

Edited, Feb 20th 2012 5:20pm by lolgaxe
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#28 Feb 20 2012 at 4:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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Samira wrote:
I... don't think admirals get that many stars. There must be some uber-rank above that.


The extra stars go towards Space Admiralship. Thats way better than normal Admiral. Because it's in space!
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#29 Feb 20 2012 at 4:30 PM Rating: Good
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I went through to the semifinals of a local-ish voice contest on Saturday, which is exciting, I suppose. The rest of the weekend was spent cleaning and searching for places to play. I HATE the winter.
#30 Feb 20 2012 at 10:04 PM Rating: Good
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Getting out of the hospital a day early was nice. Spent Sunday and today doing pt, watching movies/tv and looking at some computer time.

Elne has been very helpful, drove today and had her first "accident" when she hit a stanchion in the pharmacy parking lot. No damage to the car. I myself have hit this stanchion myself as it is not high enough to be seen via the rear view mirror.
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#31 Feb 21 2012 at 5:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Samira wrote:
I think I get some of what he's saying, but he's using a broadsword instead of a scalpel. I think he's saying that games don't necessarily have to TELL the story, don't have to dictate the only way a story can go, because a game is not necessarily the best medium for that. For a specific, author-driven, preset plot, books and movies are better media. For an open-ended, player-driven narrative, some games do a very good job - because the developers don't tell the story. They set the world in motion and let the player choose how it goes. That is, arguably, one reason why games like Skyrim and Deus Ex are so compelling and replayable.


That's more or less what I got out of it as well. And to be honest, I've noticed the same trend. Instead of coming up with games with new "rules" and game mechanics, game developers are more often just using the same rules and mechanics (more or less) and writing a new story. I think where the appearance of contradiction comes from is that he has a hard time really explaining the difference between a game with a sequence of actions required to get through the level/game/whatever, and a game where characterization is highlighted, but the story is just as linear.

I've commented on the same sort of thing in a couple of roleplaying related threads in the past. I don't consider what most games today call "roleplaying" to actually be roleplaying at all. It's someone else writing a story for the character and me having to follow along with a limited set of choices. It's kinda hard to explain, so I totally get that Jaffe had a hard time getting it across.

A way to look at it is that a game like Doom had *zero* roleplaying in the modern game sense of the word. But if you think about it, I could imagine myself as any sort of personality whilst wandering through the complex shooting demons. My character is dropped into an environment with a set of rules and objectives and obstacles, but within that framework, I'm free to decide what I do and am totally in control of my interactions with the world around me.

Many games today are similar in terms of mechanics (more advanced, but similar in concept). However, game developers have added character based storylines. But those character driven parts, while adding depth, actually usually reduce the freedom of the player to create his own. Instead of me being presented with a character with various stats, I'm presented with a choice of characters with stats, but also personality. I can't be anything I want. I have to be one of the characters they've created. And my choices are limited to those the developers thought of for that character, and the results of my actions are also defined based on what those same developers/storywriters thought that character should experience based on their vision of the character and the story.


This is why he makes a distinction between games with player-author characters (you're handing a character with stats and are free to do anything you want), and developer-author characters (your character has a story that must be followed in some way). And he's warning about the problems inherent in the second form. I'm not sure that this means there's no room for those sorts of games, but I kinda have to agree with him that I personally find those the least interesting to play. While it seems contradictory I feel like a lot of games lose something by adding all that character stuff in. I'd much rather the game just have a set of rules that govern how the world reacts to your choices, and let the player decide what they want to do.


At least that's what I think he was saying. Not sure if I was any more clear about it than he was though.



OH! As for the weekend. I re-affirmed my assessment that PF Changs is about the most awful Asian restaurant in existence. Gah! Honestly don't understand why anyone likes that place, but every few years someone will drag me there because they really want to go there and I'm always left with the same crappy impression. Bad food. Bad service. Bad decor. And nothing remotely resembling actual Asian cuisine.

Edited, Feb 21st 2012 3:55pm by gbaji
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#32 Feb 21 2012 at 6:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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A way to look at it is that a game like Doom had *zero* roleplaying in the modern game sense of the word. But if you think about it, I could imagine myself as any sort of personality whilst wandering through the complex shooting demons. My character is dropped into an environment with a set of rules and objectives and obstacles, but within that framework, I'm free to decide what I do and am totally in control of my interactions with the world around me.

You were a space marine working your way through demon-infected Mars to close the portal to ****. There was narrative every few levels describing exactly what was going on.

You were certainly free to ignore it and pretend that you were a French Musketeer or something if you wanted but you could say that about any game. You're more free to ignore the plot in Oblivion when you get right down to it.

Have you played any of the latest generation of video games?
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#33 Feb 21 2012 at 6:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Wait, there's a plot to Oblivion?? I thought the game consisted of "fight skeletons with no armor and a rusty iron dagger to make sure you can get that +5 Strength skillup".
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#34 Feb 21 2012 at 10:09 PM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
Quote:
A way to look at it is that a game like Doom had *zero* roleplaying in the modern game sense of the word. But if you think about it, I could imagine myself as any sort of personality whilst wandering through the complex shooting demons. My character is dropped into an environment with a set of rules and objectives and obstacles, but within that framework, I'm free to decide what I do and am totally in control of my interactions with the world around me.

You were a space marine working your way through demon-infected Mars to close the portal to ****. There was narrative every few levels describing exactly what was going on.


That's what you were doing and why, but there were no game mechanics which enforced any sort of character development choices. It's not like a lot of the games today where there's often a set of side plot lines involving the character itself.

Quote:
You were certainly free to ignore it and pretend that you were a French Musketeer or something if you wanted but you could say that about any game.


It's not about what I am, but *who*. So if the game designers have decided that you start out as an uncaring lout, but through the course of the game you'll encounter other people who will convince you to be altruistic and caring, finally leading to you achieving the purity of heart needed to wield the whatsit weapon needed to complete the game, that's an added story to the game which appears on the surface to add depth, but some might argue actually distracts and limits it. I can't pretend to be anything other than what the game devs decided to create for that character in that case.

If you leave those elements out, I can imagine any motivation for what I'm doing I want.


I'm not saying that's always a bad thing, but I can understand about cautioning developers to go too far with this sort of thing. They aren't really encouraging role playing. They're just writing a character development story. And while sometimes that works, sometimes I'd rather not have it in the game at all.


Quote:
Have you played any of the latest generation of video games?


Actually, not many. Want to know why? Because many of them have exactly that sort of pseudo-RPG aspect to them that I realized I didn't really like about 10 years ago. I'd much rather the devs spent time making the actual game elements more interesting and less a reaction fest instead of spending so much time giving me 8 characters to interact with, with each having a dozen or so interaction points, each of which can lead to a hundred or so variant cut-scenes and and a handful of different endings. And I totally get when he says that the introduction of so much more space on the source media than that needed to actually play the game has lead to the ability to put those cut scenes in, and thus the desire to create reasons to have lots of them. And variable character interaction is a simple and easy way to do that.


But more is not always better IMO.

Edited, Feb 21st 2012 8:09pm by gbaji
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#35 Feb 21 2012 at 10:40 PM Rating: Good
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I can follow gbaji's complaint about as well as Jaffe's, which is to say, not very well.
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#36 Feb 21 2012 at 11:01 PM Rating: Good
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Eske Esquire wrote:
I can follow gbaji's complaint about as well as Jaffe's, which is to say, not very well.


gbaji wrote:

Quote:
Have you played any of the latest generation of video games?



Actually, not many.
Scan for this type of stuff and know that if you choose to read any further it's purely for entertainment purposes.
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#37 Feb 21 2012 at 11:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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Sadly, I'm sitting at home now. I went to check out the house. Visit the X-ray place for chest x-rays. Then had lunch with a friend. I started feeling nauseous during lunch. Got home felt incredibly tired and my head hurt and was hot. I laid down for the rest of the day and it was a really nice day here. In the mid 70's. Being sick sucks.
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#38 Feb 21 2012 at 11:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Quote:
Have you played any of the latest generation of video games?
Actually, not many.

Didn't think so.

More to the point: Your criticisms sound as though they came from someone basing them on JRPG games last played on their PSX or something.

Edited, Feb 22nd 2012 9:14am by Jophiel
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#39 Feb 21 2012 at 11:45 PM Rating: Decent
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I took Jacob in for a checkup today. He's doing remarkably well, apparently gaining weight in much the same matter that Bruce Banner inexplicably increases mass when he Hulks out.
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#40 Feb 22 2012 at 12:51 AM Rating: Excellent
Gbaji wrote:
OH! As for the weekend. I re-affirmed my assessment that PF Changs is about the most awful Asian restaurant in existence.


If you want authentic Asian food, don't go to a chain restaurant in San Diego as it is most definitely cooked by Mexicans.
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#41 Feb 22 2012 at 9:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm just springboarding off ya here, Samira.

Samira wrote:
Mixed in with that is his opinion, which I share, that games that are made from movies and comics are inherently problematic.

I agree that they're more problematic, but not that they're a problem.

If you're going to play a game that has you in the role of Batman, you should expect to play as Batman. Which I guess means not killing people or punching random civilians or whatever. By its very nature you'll be limited (and more so because DC isn't going to license a game that deviates from the core Batman persona).

On the other hand, for having you experience being Batman, the games are very successful and big hits by any definition. So there's obviously a market, both critically and economically, for that style of game. And I think the plot makes that game. You could just be a guy named "Batman" who runs around punching Joker minions without the plot or detective work but then it's only "Batman" in that "Batman" is a more profitable name than "Punch-Guy". That's stuff from the last decades where there was nothing at all defining about you, they just slapped a licensed name on the game and had you do generic stuff. There's still lots of games out there if all you want is to hurt things.

I do agree with his point about lengthy intros that allow limited interaction. Even as "basic training" they're not really successful. I'd love to be able to skip the whole wagon ride and associated content next time I start a character in Skyrim -- I don't even know if the sequence is actually long from a minutes standpoint; it's just dull. At least you'll probably never play the intro to Arkham City twice.

Edited, Feb 22nd 2012 9:33am by Jophiel
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#42 Feb 22 2012 at 2:01 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
I do agree with his point about lengthy intros that allow limited interaction. Even as "basic training" they're not really successful. I'd love to be able to skip the whole wagon ride and associated content next time I start a character in Skyrim -- I don't even know if the sequence is actually long from a minutes standpoint; it's just dull. At least you'll probably never play the intro to Arkham City twice.


I don't have any problem with them being long, or having limited interaction. In my experience, they can be perfectly enjoyable while being both of those things (Bioshock's is a bit like that). The problems are when they're boring, like Skyrim's, and unskippable, like Skyrim's.

Though I believe that you can create a save right before you 'create' your character, immediately after exiting the wagon. Or the game makes one for you. I've got one there, either way.
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#43 Feb 22 2012 at 2:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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Also, the intro for Homefront. Yeah, I get that they were trying to set a mood but... yyeaaggugh...

That's the exact sound I made. "Yyeaaggugh". If I wanted to sit on a bus and stare out the window for five minutes, I'd leave my house and go somewhere five minutes away.
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Belkira wrote:
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#44 Feb 22 2012 at 2:43 PM Rating: Good
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Eske Esquire wrote:
I can follow gbaji's complaint about as well as Jaffe's, which is to say, not very well.
He doesn't like Choose Your Own Adventure® books.
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#45 Feb 22 2012 at 2:47 PM Rating: Default
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Omegavegeta wrote:
Gbaji wrote:
OH! As for the weekend. I re-affirmed my assessment that PF Changs is about the most awful Asian restaurant in existence.


If you want authentic Asian food, don't go to a chain restaurant in San Diego as it is most definitely cooked by Mexicans.


Yeah, because there are no Asians living in Southern California. Smiley: oyvey


There are some really good Asian restaurants (of all varieties) in the area. I can't for the life of me figure out why anyone goes to this particular one. Power of advertising I guess.
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#46 Feb 22 2012 at 2:47 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
I do agree with his point about lengthy intros that allow limited interaction. Even as "basic training" they're not really successful. I'd love to be able to skip the whole wagon ride and associated content next time I start a character in Skyrim -- I don't even know if the sequence is actually long from a minutes standpoint; it's just dull. At least you'll probably never play the intro to Arkham City twice.
That's one thing I liked about Fallout 3. They give you a save file right before finalizing your character's stats and exiting the vault, so on subsequent playthroughs, you can just create your character and go.

If you play Skyrim on PC, you can just console command a race change, I guess.
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#47 Feb 22 2012 at 2:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Yeah, because there are no Asians living in Southern California. Smiley: oyvey

They built the railroads!

Just to prove I don't reflexively disagree with Gbaji about everything, I was at a PF Chang's recently and wasn't at all impressed.
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#48 Feb 22 2012 at 2:49 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
There are some really good Asian restaurants (of all varieties) in the area. I can't for the life of me figure out why anyone goes to this particular one. Power of advertising I guess.
Same reason people in RI go to Olive Garden when there are a hundred good Italian restaurants around here, I guess. At least there isn't a Red Lobster around here anymore. Smiley: lol

Edited, Feb 22nd 2012 3:51pm by Spoonless
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#49 Feb 22 2012 at 2:51 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
On the other hand, for having you experience being Batman, the games are very successful and big hits by any definition. So there's obviously a market, both critically and economically, for that style of game. And I think the plot makes that game. You could just be a guy named "Batman" who runs around punching Joker minions without the plot or detective work but then it's only "Batman" in that "Batman" is a more profitable name than "Punch-Guy". That's stuff from the last decades where there was nothing at all defining about you, they just slapped a licensed name on the game and had you do generic stuff. There's still lots of games out there if all you want is to hurt things.
Gotham City Impostors is pretty awesome, yes.
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#50 Feb 22 2012 at 2:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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When you have unlimited wealth and technology, you can afford morals about killing Smiley: laugh
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#51 Feb 22 2012 at 2:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Sir Spoonless wrote:
Eske Esquire wrote:
I can follow gbaji's complaint about as well as Jaffe's, which is to say, not very well.
He doesn't like Choose Your Own Adventure® books.


You're confusing plot with character. He's not saying that games can't or shouldn't have plots, but that by adding defined character personalities that you play and interweaving them into the plot, possibly (especially) with rewards for playing "in character" and penalties for not, you run the risk of actually limiting play options instead of expanding them. And he's not even talking about player defined characters. A game where you pick the name, stats, weapons, etc of your character and then go off and play through the game is very different than one where you pick from a set of pre-defined characters and are confined in some way based on which character you pick.


And to echo Joph's comment, I don't think that's a problem exclusively, but that it *can* be problematic if the industry moves too much in this direction. That seemed to be what he was doing. Warning against relying on that character driven storyline technique and possibly forgetting that game play is important too.
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