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#77 Feb 03 2012 at 5:07 PM Rating: Good
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allenjj wrote:
Aethien wrote:
That's just for T2 tournaments.
You've got T2 tournaments with just the cards from the last year, the cheapest and most common tournaments (stuff like Friday Night Magic), then there's Extended which is the last 3 or 4 years, then T1.5/Legacy which are all cards but with stuff like Black Lotus and Moxes banned and finally there's T1/Vintage where the cards that are banned in Legacy are limited to 1 per deck. Sadly you can't find many people who play Legacy or Vintage decks because those decks often require over $1000 worth of cards (and Vintage can run up to triple that) while a top end T2 deck is "only" worth about $2-300 or so.


What really bothered me was the thought that certain cards weren't allowed any more. When I played, everyone used dual-lands and four Serra Angels: wealthier folks had Mox and Black Lotus cards in the mix. The only cards that weren't allowed in tournaments or normal play were the ante cards.

I guess I just dislike the thought of creativity being hampered by limitations on cards. Imagine the decks people could make if they were allowed any card ever made in regular tournament play.


That's just it, you don't end up with highly creative decks, or even thematic decks. You end up with decks that are nothing but overpowered and utility cards. Those aren't fun to play or to lose to, because they're just broken.
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#78 Feb 03 2012 at 5:14 PM Rating: Good
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IDrownFish wrote:
That's just it, you don't end up with highly creative decks, or even thematic decks. You end up with decks that are nothing but overpowered and utility cards. Those aren't fun to play or to lose to, because they're just broken.


Except that the truly creative decks were the ones built to beat the decks made by guys who thought that just stacking their deck with powerful and utility cards would allow them to win. By banning cards you actually stifle the creativity. Honestly, it was usually super easy to wipe out the guys who spent tons of money buying lotus and mox and angels and thinking their deck was unbeatable because of this. Those guys usually didn't last through the first round because they were copying what the big strategy was last time around. But the creative players moved on. Similarly, the banned list followed what was the strong combos the last time around as well. All it really did was prevent the second string guys from copying last years super-combo (and likely losing).
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#79 Feb 03 2012 at 7:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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#80 Feb 03 2012 at 8:01 PM Rating: Good
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I regularly drift corners while shopping with grocery carts. I enjoy grocery shopping far more than I should.

I load everything up in the front of the cart, then hop on the rear bar and ride it across the parking lot.
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#81 Feb 04 2012 at 3:59 AM Rating: Excellent
The cards really were not overpowered at the time, but now with all the other cards that have been printed you can actually make decks that consistently win turn one or 2 or at least have the game locked right away. When you play legacy (can use anything but banned cards) it's pretty much the same decks forever. Not much innovation other then changing one or 2 cards every couple of years when I new card comes out. Playing standard forces people to make new decks with new strategies. I'm all for being creative and making your own decks.

I love playing fun combo/themed decks and I have a lot of them built for playing casually with friends, but I also enjoy competitive play and since I'm good at it I pretty much get enough cards from prizes plus I share with my roommate who is also quite competent. From the sounds of it though you would really enjoy the Commander format, it really gives me a feeling of the old days where you could play cards just because they were cool.

Also the current set is awesome, really cool mechanics, great art, powerful but flavorful cards and you can play almost any type of deck competitively right now.
#82 Feb 04 2012 at 4:18 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
SillyXSara wrote:
There are far too many cards for them all to be leagal and in tournaments with moxs and black loctus you can't be creative, you have to play the perfect deck and hope you go first.


/shrug

I really think that those cards have gotten such a mystical rap that they're attributed to way more power than they actually had. I played in tourneys back when Magic was just starting to have tourneys, and they really weren't that significant. The problem is that every once in a great while, someone would get super luck and draw a couple mox and the black lotus in his initial hand and have sufficient other cards to be able to utilize the mana to do something nasty on the very first turn and everyone would be like "OMG! Did you see that!!!?". Then they'd conclude that it was unbeatable and unfair.

But they didn't make note of the 1000 other times the same cards were put into a deck in the same numbers and didn't result in a first turn boost like that.
But back then, there weren't any decks that pretty much guaranteed a kill within 4 turns and none that were capable of killing on the first turn.
Without banning or limiting cards, every deck in a T1 tournament would be capable of killing on the first turn which would mean that everyone would be forced to play blue for a set of Force Of Will's just so you can stop that because that's still about the only counter you can use without having any cards in play and lets face it, everyone being forced to play blue cards ***** up creativity quite a bit.
Back when they were made the P9 weren't as strong because while they made the game/your deck a lot faster, decks weren't that fast yet. By now decks are so much faster that these cards in full sets would just result in too many turn 1 kills where one player doesn't get to do anything.


gbaji wrote:
IDrownFish wrote:
That's just it, you don't end up with highly creative decks, or even thematic decks. You end up with decks that are nothing but overpowered and utility cards. Those aren't fun to play or to lose to, because they're just broken.


Except that the truly creative decks were the ones built to beat the decks made by guys who thought that just stacking their deck with powerful and utility cards would allow them to win. By banning cards you actually stifle the creativity. Honestly, it was usually super easy to wipe out the guys who spent tons of money buying lotus and mox and angels and thinking their deck was unbeatable because of this. Those guys usually didn't last through the first round because they were copying what the big strategy was last time around. But the creative players moved on. Similarly, the banned list followed what was the strong combos the last time around as well. All it really did was prevent the second string guys from copying last years super-combo (and likely losing).
The fact that you still seem to think of Serra's Angel as a powerful card shows just how awfully outdated your knowledge is.
This is the kind of stuff people do with moxes and black lotus.
And if those cards were allowed everywhere, decks such as this one wouldn't be viable anymore because it simply can't compete with the speed that P9 cards give a deck.

And as far as creativity goes, try figuring out how this deck wins.
#83 Feb 04 2012 at 7:42 AM Rating: Good
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Except that the truly creative decks were the ones built to beat the decks made by guys who thought that just stacking their deck with powerful and utility cards would allow them to win. By banning cards you actually stifle the creativity. Honestly, it was usually super easy to wipe out the guys who spent tons of money buying lotus and mox and angels and thinking their deck was unbeatable because of this.


Totally. It's super easy to be people in Chess when you start with no queen because they think the queen is so powerful.

It has nothing to do with relative skill of the players, my anecdotal experience translates directly to the design of the game.
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#84 Feb 04 2012 at 9:18 AM Rating: Good
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
allenjj wrote:
Aethien wrote:
That's just for T2 tournaments.
You've got T2 tournaments with just the cards from the last year, the cheapest and most common tournaments (stuff like Friday Night Magic), then there's Extended which is the last 3 or 4 years, then T1.5/Legacy which are all cards but with stuff like Black Lotus and Moxes banned and finally there's T1/Vintage where the cards that are banned in Legacy are limited to 1 per deck. Sadly you can't find many people who play Legacy or Vintage decks because those decks often require over $1000 worth of cards (and Vintage can run up to triple that) while a top end T2 deck is "only" worth about $2-300 or so.


What really bothered me was the thought that certain cards weren't allowed any more. When I played, everyone used dual-lands and four Serra Angels: wealthier folks had Mox and Black Lotus cards in the mix. The only cards that weren't allowed in tournaments or normal play were the ante cards.

I guess I just dislike the thought of creativity being hampered by limitations on cards. Imagine the decks people could make if they were allowed any card ever made in regular tournament play.
Trust me, with moxes costing €3-400 a piece and Black Lotus costing double that, it's a good thing they're not allowed everywhere. They're so powerful that they'd be required in every single deck if they weren't banned/limited.
As for creativity, google single land belcher.


I've been ruminating on a Casual Despised Therapy deck, myself.


Edited, Feb 4th 2012 10:19am by Timelordwho
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#85 Feb 04 2012 at 9:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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#86 Feb 04 2012 at 1:47 PM Rating: Good
Timelord, what is the quote in your signature from? I really like it.
#87 Feb 04 2012 at 10:55 PM Rating: Excellent
Gbaji wrote:
I always saw it the other way around. Creative is coming up with ways to win that aren't the stock methods that everyone talks about. One of the things I found is that the combinations that everyone talked about were super powerful on the rare occasion they worked perfectly, but were mostly just average (or even less than average) most of the time. The best decks were those which could do something useful and powerful every time. I remember a girl I knew who constructed a deck that seemed to win nearly every time. The odd thing is that there didn't seem to be *any* plan to it. There were no obvious card combinations within it. No overloading of certain types of cards to ensure a combination at all. Just a seemingly random jumble. You couldn't look at the cards and figure out why it won. It just did.


It was the Tim Tebow of magic decks.
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#88 Feb 04 2012 at 11:15 PM Rating: Good
SillyXSara wrote:
Timelord, what is the quote in your signature from? I really like it.


It's a common japanese poem. TLW may have got it from Shogun 2.
#89 Feb 06 2012 at 12:03 AM Rating: Good
Thanks, I guess I don't watch enough anime.
#90 Feb 06 2012 at 5:10 AM Rating: Good
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Kavekk wrote:
SillyXSara wrote:
Timelord, what is the quote in your signature from? I really like it.


It's a common japanese poem. TLW may have got it from Shogun 2.


Roses are red
Violets are, too
Omae wa mou
Shindeiru
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#91 Feb 06 2012 at 7:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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SillyXSara wrote:
Thanks, I guess I don't watch enough anime.

Those are all words I recognize but, in that order, they make no sense.
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#92 Feb 06 2012 at 11:38 PM Rating: Good
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SillyXSara wrote:
Thanks, I guess I don't watch enough anime.

Those are all words I recognize but, in that order, they make no sense.

Speaking of I made a deal with my roomie that I would watch Naruto if he watched Gurren Laggan. He refuses to watch mech shows and I refuse to watch garbage. Naruto is just as bad as I thought it would be and he was pleasantly surprised.
#93 Feb 07 2012 at 3:31 AM Rating: Good
So my impressions of Naruto: Hang on, I started watching Naruto at 1.5X normal speed and it's almost decent. It suffers hard from DBZ syndrome but at least instead of crapping their pants for 3 episodes they just stare at each other for minutes at a time then Naruto says he'll be the greatest ninja or whatever, enemy laughs, Naruto reproduces asexually and the bad guy vomits at this vulgar display. Believe it.

The premise really is good and the characters have potential but for some reason they want 100 episodes for 25 episodes worth of content. For each episode I fast forward 4.5 minutes and still end up watching 30 seconds of recap. The flow of what could be interesting fighting scenes has to be interrupted by staring contests and barely relevant flashbacks for often minor characters. Flashbacks can be good and sometimes a nice intense stare-down seems appropriate but they do it every time and the dialog always seems far too similar. You can't beat me! Yes I can! You want to be topninjadude? You're weak! No I'm not! Hard work pays off! Believe it! CLONES! sh*t didn't work. Clones WITH BEWBS! No? More clones? Less clones? I GOT IT! Clones . . . OVER THERE! TRICKY!

TL;DR
I bet the abridged is awesome.

EDIT: Given the topic of the thread my last two posts are probably in poor taste. If you like Naruto I really don't care, when people tell me I'm lame for playing MTG/D&D/WAR&HAMMER I kindly inform them that I don't give a ****. I just am not enjoying this particular series and vented because WOO INTERWEBS AND PSEUDOANONYMOTY!

Edited, Feb 7th 2012 4:46am by SillyXSara
#94 Feb 07 2012 at 6:03 AM Rating: Good
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Kavekk wrote:
SillyXSara wrote:
Timelord, what is the quote in your signature from? I really like it.


It's a common japanese poem. TLW may have got it from Shogun 2.


I didn't get it from Shogun 2, but from background research after playing it a bit. It's a bit of zen commentary on the leadership styles of the three men who united Japan.
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#95 Feb 07 2012 at 10:19 PM Rating: Default
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I have been thinking for awhile now and I figured it out yesterday. DDR. It's been a long time since I've played, but I literally felt the addiction yesterday as I came across a mall with a DDR machine. Unlike regular video games, there's an actual legitimate reason why you should stop playing DDR as you get older.
#96 Feb 07 2012 at 11:29 PM Rating: Good
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Because it makes you look like a spastic, helmet-wearing glue-eatewr?
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#97 Feb 07 2012 at 11:45 PM Rating: Excellent
The older you are, the gayer you seem for playing.
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#98 Feb 07 2012 at 11:46 PM Rating: Default
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Debalic wrote:
Because it makes you look like a spastic, helmet-wearing glue-eatewr?


I was actually going for "what is physical changes?"

#99 Feb 08 2012 at 12:21 AM Rating: Good
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But instead you hit "too much investment to not play in public".
#100 Feb 08 2012 at 7:35 AM Rating: Good
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Almalieque wrote:
Debalic wrote:
Because it makes you look like a spastic, helmet-wearing glue-eatewr?


I was actually going for "what is physical changes?"


Did you miss Madonna at the Superbowl? She's 53.

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#101 Feb 08 2012 at 7:42 AM Rating: Decent
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Elinda wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
Debalic wrote:
Because it makes you look like a spastic, helmet-wearing glue-eatewr?


I was actually going for "what is physical changes?"


Did you miss Madonna at the Superbowl? She's 53.



Because every 53 year old can do that? .. There's a reason why she's called a performer. That's kind of what she trains for.
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