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Peeing on Afghans is A-OK by Perry.Follow

#1 Jan 15 2012 at 2:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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Link.

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Republican presidential hopeful Rick Perry said on Sunday it would be "over the top" to file criminal charges against four US Marines who urinated on dead militants in Afghanistan.

The incident, captured in a video posted online that depicts American troops desecrating the bloodstained corpses of fighters, has appalled Afghanistan's President Hamid Karzai and embarrassed the Pentagon.

"These kids made a mistake, there's not any doubt about it," Perry, the governor of Texas who is trailing most of his rivals in the battle for the Republican nomination for the November election, told CNN.

"But the idea that this administration would go after these young people for a criminal act is, again, over the top."

The US military has launched a high-level investigation and the four Marines have been questioned, while US Defense Secretary Leon Panetta and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton have both expressed dismay at the acts and vowed that the culprits would be punished.

There are concerns that the video could be used as a recruiting tool for the Taliban and anti-American insurgents.

Perry, a former US Air Force pilot, criticized what he described as President Barack Obama's administration's "disdain for the military... whether it's the secretary of state or whether it's the secretary of defense.

"Did (the four US Marines) make a mistake? Absolutely. Should they be reprimanded and appropriately punished? Yes. But going after them as a criminal act I think sends a really bad message."

Perry recalled how World War II era US general George Patton famously urinated in the Rhine river during his troops' march into **** Germany, and, "although there's not a picture, (British prime minister Winston) Churchill did the same thing on the Siegfried Line" to show contempt for the *****.

The US military said the four Marines are from a sniper unit in the 3rd Battalion, 2nd Marines based at Camp Lejeune in North Carolina, and they were grilled by the Naval Criminal Investigative Service which is leading a criminal inquiry into the affair.

The unit was deployed in southwestern Afghanistan's Helmand province from March to September last year, and the video "potentially" was shot during that period, a military official told AFP.


I will never understand why people think these things are ok. And the comments to the story just blow my mind. "When are these kids going to get smart and stop taking pictures of this stuff?" Really? That's the problem here?

And, "These kids are tired and getting shot at. Of course they will exercise bad judgement!" Smiley: facepalm
#2 Jan 15 2012 at 2:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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That whole Geneva Convention and war crimes and such? It's just a guideline.
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#3 Jan 15 2012 at 3:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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So if I were to, say, dig up Perry's mother's corpse and pee on her, that would just be a mistake, right? Forgivable!
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#4 Jan 15 2012 at 3:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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What's the applicable federal criminal charge for corpse urination? I would have assumed this would be a military matter.
The Federal Criminal Code, TITLE 10 > Subtitle A > PART II > CHAPTER 47A > SUBCHAPTER VIII > § 950t wrote:

(20) Intentionally mistreating a dead body.— Any person subject to this chapter who intentionally mistreats the body of a dead person, without justification by legitimate military necessary, shall be punished as a military commission under this chapter may direct.

Is Perry saying they should be "appropriately punished" by the military but is against the military appropriately punishing them as the law directs? Smiley: confused
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#5 Jan 15 2012 at 4:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Is Perry saying they should be "appropriately punished" by the military but is against the military appropriately punishing them as the law directs? Smiley: confused

Isn't the point of politicians to uphold the law by breaking it? Or to speak in contradictions that contradict themselves?
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#6 Jan 15 2012 at 4:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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Most states it would be two years prison and $500 maximum. Not having my books with me, I'm "pretty sure" it would also include a reduction in rank and at least a less-than-honorable discharge as far as UCMJ is concerned.
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#7 Jan 15 2012 at 4:22 PM Rating: Good
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#8 Jan 15 2012 at 4:37 PM Rating: Excellent
Samira wrote:
So if I were to, say, dig up Perry's mother's corpse and pee on her, that would just be a mistake, right? Forgivable!

So long as you don't take pictures. obviously.
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#9 Jan 15 2012 at 4:43 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:

Perry recalled how World War II era US general George Patton famously urinated in the Rhine river during his troops' march into **** Germany.
NPO, The Friends of the Rhine, would be all over his **** if he tried that today.
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#10 Jan 15 2012 at 6:11 PM Rating: Good
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Popular sentiment among my Army/Marine friends and family is along the lines of "where was the outrage when insurgents beheaded and dragged our men through the streets of Iraq?"
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#11 Jan 15 2012 at 6:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
Quote:

Perry recalled how World War II era US general George Patton famously urinated in the Rhine river during his troops' march into **** Germany.
NPO, The Friends of the Rhine, would be all over his **** if he tried that today.



Because there's no difference between ******* in a river and ******* on a corpse.

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#12 Jan 15 2012 at 6:30 PM Rating: Good
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Debalic wrote:
Popular sentiment among my Army/Marine friends and family is along the lines of "where was the outrage when insurgents beheaded and dragged our men through the streets of Iraq?"


That's not an excuse, I'ld say it's a sad attempt to use dead marines to excuse others of wrongdoing.
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#13 Jan 15 2012 at 6:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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There was plenty of outrage, anyway. If people want to be defensive about an indefensible act by choosing to ignore or forget that there was, in fact, reaction against another indefensible act, well, there's not much reasoning with that type of person.

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#14 Jan 15 2012 at 8:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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Debalic wrote:
Popular sentiment among my Army/Marine friends and family is along the lines of "where was the outrage when insurgents beheaded and dragged our men through the streets of Iraq?"

I thought the idea was that we act better than those guys. Otherwise, what's the point?
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#15 Jan 15 2012 at 8:24 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm just repeating what others said. Though in all honesty my cousin (the Marine) has gone downhill since he found the joys of bacon vodka.
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#16 Jan 15 2012 at 8:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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What Joph said.
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#17 Jan 15 2012 at 8:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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For me, it just goes against everything the Marines claim to stand for. They're supposed to be the most proud and honorable of the whole set of armed forces. There's nothing honorable about peeing on bodies of someone you killed. Honor would be apologizing to the families of the dudes you just killed and saying how sorry you were it had to come to this.

Or at the very least, leaving the **** battlefield in silence.

Then again, my experience with Marines in general is that they're the most ***-holeish of the entire military force. Army dudes are down to earth, Air Force guys are jocks, Navy people are just weird, and....

You know, I don't think I've ever met anyone in the Coast Guard. Smiley: lol
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#18 Jan 15 2012 at 8:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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catwho wrote:
For me, it just goes against everything the Marines claim to stand for. They're supposed to be the most proud and honorable of the whole set of armed forces. There's nothing honorable about peeing on bodies of someone you killed. Honor would be apologizing to the families of the dudes you just killed and saying how sorry you were it had to come to this.

Or at the very least, leaving the **** battlefield in silence.

Then again, my experience with Marines in general is that they're the most ***-holeish of the entire military force. Army dudes are down to earth, Air Force guys are jocks, Navy people are just weird, and....

You know, I don't think I've ever met anyone in the Coast Guard. Smiley: lol


My brother-in-law (army) told me once that the Marines are the guys who want the crazy, dangerous, stupid jobs. They don't really strategize much, they're sort of the "let's go in there and fuck'em up" kinda guys.
#19 Jan 15 2012 at 9:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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LEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYYYYYYY JJJJJJJEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEENNKKKIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINS



Like that? Smiley: tongue



Yes, it's very very old and not very funny but someone had to say it, right?

Edited, Jan 16th 2012 4:05am by Aethien
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#20 Jan 15 2012 at 9:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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Chances are they'll be made an example of. Not because they ****** on the bodies (though that's probably the reason that will be released), but because they were retarded enough to post videos of it to be easily found like they did. Their careers are basically over. Even if they're not detained, fined, demoted, and booted, I can't see them not being barred from reenlistment as the least of their punishment.

It's basically what happened to the guy who kicked a dog off a cliff.
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#21 Jan 15 2012 at 11:33 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Debalic wrote:
Popular sentiment among my Army/Marine friends and family is along the lines of "where was the outrage when insurgents beheaded and dragged our men through the streets of Iraq?"

I thought the idea was that we act better than those guys. Otherwise, what's the point?


A small saving on urinal cakes?
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#22 Jan 16 2012 at 12:44 PM Rating: Good
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that ******* tool compared it to a General ******* in a river =(
#23 Jan 16 2012 at 1:05 PM Rating: Good
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Maybe he was referring to the dead bodies in the water.
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#24 Jan 16 2012 at 1:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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Maybe. I thought about that after I posted. Even so, those guys weren't stupid enough to do it for the camera.

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#25 Jan 16 2012 at 5:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I thought the idea was that we act better than those guys. Otherwise, what's the point?


Smiley: laugh
nice one Smiley: thumbsup
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#26 Jan 16 2012 at 6:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
What's the applicable federal criminal charge for corpse urination? I would have assumed this would be a military matter.
The Federal Criminal Code, TITLE 10 > Subtitle A > PART II > CHAPTER 47A > SUBCHAPTER VIII > § 950t wrote:

(20) Intentionally mistreating a dead body.— Any person subject to this chapter who intentionally mistreats the body of a dead person, without justification by legitimate military necessary, shall be punished as a military commission under this chapter may direct.

Is Perry saying they should be "appropriately punished" by the military but is against the military appropriately punishing them as the law directs? Smiley: confused


While I've honestly heard only small tidbits about this, I'd assume he means they should be punished appropriately based on military law, but should not be punished inappropriately or more harshly because of the public attention on this particular incident. He's presumably concerned that these four guys will be made into scapegoats by politicians more concerned with protecting themselves from knee-jerk public reaction/outrage than in ensuring they get a fair punishment for their actions. And given that this has happened a few times in recent years, it's a reasonable concern.


Again, let me point out that I don't know what Perry himself is thinking. I'm not on his staff, and I don't have personal communications with the guy. I'm just answering a question as to what someone might mean when they said what Perry said.

Edited, Jan 16th 2012 4:08pm by gbaji
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#27 Jan 16 2012 at 7:21 PM Rating: Good
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Oh good, gbaji's here.
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#28 Jan 16 2012 at 9:06 PM Rating: Good
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Oh good, gbaji's here.

You got rated down for that. I fixed it.
#29 Jan 16 2012 at 9:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
While I've honestly heard only small tidbits about this, I'd assume he means they should be punished appropriately based on military law, but should not be punished inappropriately or more harshly because of the public attention on this particular incident.
Eh, it goes without saying that they're going to be punished much more harshly now than they would have if they didn't post it on the internet. If they'd have just done it, they'd probably get a slap on the wrist and maybe, maybe a ceremonial reduction in rank (IE: no reduction in pay, no counseling paperwork) at worst. Maybe even a thousand word essay they'd have to read to the entire company. Making it as public as they did, there's no choice but to punish them for their behavior. Like I said, their careers are over at the minimum.
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#30 Jan 16 2012 at 10:48 PM Rating: Good
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Eske Esquire wrote:
Oh good, gbaji's here.

You got rated down for that. I fixed it.


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#31 Jan 17 2012 at 6:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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At least we know all the effort the military put into training them to dehumanize the enemy is working.
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#32 Jan 17 2012 at 7:57 AM Rating: Decent
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Samira wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Quote:

Perry recalled how World War II era US general George Patton famously urinated in the Rhine river during his troops' march into **** Germany.
NPO, The Friends of the Rhine, would be all over his **** if he tried that today.



Because there's no difference between ******* in a river and ******* on a corpse.

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I'm not sure if you're responding to me or Perry's comments. I didn't compare ******* in a river to ******* on a dead body. If I did, my thought process would probably lead me to support putting the pee where it will do the most good and/or least damage - which would be on a corpse versus in the river. However, considering that the corpses will probably be retrieved and prepared for burial, the pee could become a problem with those that may have to handle the body.

It's illegal by policy so the perps should be punished, but the act is largely symbolic.
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#33 Jan 17 2012 at 10:19 AM Rating: Good
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It's illegal by policy so the perps should be punished, but the act is largely symbolic.


Wow, you don't say?
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#34 Jan 17 2012 at 4:50 PM Rating: Good
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It's illegal by policy so the perps should be punished, but the act is largely symbolic.


Wow, you don't say?

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#35 Jan 17 2012 at 5:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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In the way that large burning crosses just scorch a bit of grass, but are some-what symbolic?
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#36 Jan 17 2012 at 7:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm not sure if you're responding to me or Perry's comments.


Perry.
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#37 Jan 18 2012 at 8:31 AM Rating: Good
Honestly, I think what these young men did was reprehensible, but a dishonorable or bad conduct discharge really ought to be enough. That stuff stays with you a long time when you are looking for employment.
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#39 Jan 19 2012 at 12:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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Almalieque wrote:
I don't condone that type of behavior, but at the same time, I don't have the same amount of feelings for a dead person with a dead person who attempted to kill me.


Yeah, peeing on zombies is ok. Peeing on other soldiers who you have shot isn't so much.
#40 Jan 19 2012 at 12:35 AM Rating: Decent
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I don't condone that type of behavior, but at the same time, I don't have the same amount of feelings for a dead person with a dead person who attempted to kill me.


Wouldn't it be nice to go back to old gentlemanly conflict. All line up in neat lines and take turns shooting at each other. At the end of the day you can go back and collect your dead/wounded, then line up and do it all again at dawn.

I doubt many men ****** all over their enemies then, or thought it was ok to do so because they shot a friend or shot at them. But we can thank the French for bringing the savage natives into modern warfare and thus ending conflicts of gentlemen.

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#41 Jan 19 2012 at 2:21 AM Rating: Good
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#42 Jan 19 2012 at 5:38 AM Rating: Good
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rdmcandie wrote:
But we can thank the French for bringing the savage natives into modern warfare and thus ending conflicts of gentlemen.
I thought it was the invention of the rifle and no longer needing to be standing within 100 feet of your foe with a wildly inaccurate musket that did that.
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#43 Jan 19 2012 at 8:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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The British created pugilism, which is the art of fighting with your fists. The Japanese created Judo, which is the art of fighting through grappling. The French created parkour, which is the art of fighting by running away.
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#44 Jan 19 2012 at 10:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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Belkira wrote:
"When are these kids going to get smart and stop taking pictures of this stuff?"


Think of the fortune we could save if we could just convince more criminals to upload to youtube.
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#45 Jan 19 2012 at 12:32 PM Rating: Good
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
rdmcandie wrote:
But we can thank the French for bringing the savage natives into modern warfare and thus ending conflicts of gentlemen.
I thought it was the invention of the rifle and no longer needing to be standing within 100 feet of your foe with a wildly inaccurate musket that did that.

They still did the whole lines and columns thing after the invention of the rifle. It just meant that the British had special forces as well as redcoats. Green Jackets FTW!

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#46 Jan 19 2012 at 12:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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Nilatai wrote:
They still did the whole lines and columns thing after the invention of the rifle.
Sure, until rifles weer proven to be superior, new tactics to utilize/defend them properly and mass production to outfit armies with were achieved.


Edited, Jan 19th 2012 2:41pm by Uglysasquatch
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#47 Jan 19 2012 at 2:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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Nilatai wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
rdmcandie wrote:
But we can thank the French for bringing the savage natives into modern warfare and thus ending conflicts of gentlemen.
I thought it was the invention of the rifle and no longer needing to be standing within 100 feet of your foe with a wildly inaccurate musket that did that.

They still did the whole lines and columns thing after the invention of the rifle.


They didn't do it for very long. Basically, they did it until everyone realized that this was stupid because rifles were so much more accurate than muskets and losing 10s of thousands of soldiers in a single battle wasn't so great after all. Instead, they started hiding behind things and using terrain. Then they dug trenches. Then other stuff happened.
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#48 Jan 19 2012 at 3:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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You could've just said "This" to my last post.
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#49 Jan 19 2012 at 3:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hi. You must be new here.
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#50 Jan 19 2012 at 4:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hi. You must be new here.

This.
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#51 Jan 19 2012 at 4:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm just trying to encourage others to try new things.
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