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#1 Dec 20 2011 at 7:58 AM Rating: Good
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In his book Less Than Human: The Psychology of Cruelty, David Livingston Smith explores how people, through dehumanization, come to be able to torture, kill and dismember other people - not just the psychopaths of the world, but the soldiers and leaders throughout history that have systematically set out to remove or subdue a group of people in the name of politics, race, religion, etc.

Has anyone ever purposely killed another person (and willing to share)?

If so, how did you come to terms with it?

Anyone read this book?

There's an interview with the author on maine public radio this afternoon at 12:15 - they stream live. I'm gonna try and listen.




Edited, Dec 20th 2011 3:02pm by Elinda
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#2 Dec 20 2011 at 8:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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No, never killed anyone (and don't plan to), but I'm familiar with the concept. Wartime propaganda works on this principle all the time, sometimes very overtly and often quite subtly.

One of the most effective techniques is to take a real example of something a government did or sanctioned, and extrapolate that to the population at large. Thus, all Iraqis are heartless torturers, all Afghani men hate and mistreat women, etc.

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#3 Dec 20 2011 at 8:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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Had this discussion with my parents last night, actually. My dad's a Vietnam vet, and he talked about how very few people are willing to pull the trigger and be responsible for taking a life. A major goal of the Army training was to make soldiers not see the enemy as human, but as "the enemy." It probably helps to save their lives in war, but it's still chilling.

I find that a similar effect has been happening in civilian life recent times. While I think a lot of (for example) white people would have issues shooting another white person, I don't think they would have nearly as much of an issue with shooting someone dressed in traditional Muslim garb. It's probably a combination of seeing them as "others" and being oriented to think of people from the Middle East as less than human.
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#4 Dec 20 2011 at 8:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
If so, how did you come to terms with it?
Telling myself that if I don't, a lot more people would be endangered. Not that it helps me sleep any.
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#5 Dec 20 2011 at 8:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Elinda wrote:
If so, how did you come to terms with it?
Telling myself that if I don't, a lot more people would be endangered. Not that it helps me sleep any.



For what it's worth, that might even be true.

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#6 Dec 20 2011 at 8:58 AM Rating: Good
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Samira wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Elinda wrote:
If so, how did you come to terms with it?
Telling myself that if I don't, a lot more people would be endangered. Not that it helps me sleep any.



For what it's worth, that might even be true.


It's true.
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#7 Dec 20 2011 at 8:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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When I was home during the break in a couple years back, I came to the realization that had the would be robber tried anything at all while I had him at knifepoint, I would have killed him. I wouldn't have enjoyed it, and it would have haunted me forever, but I also wouldn't have hesitated in the slightest if he had tried for the knife or to come at me. Alot of it was adrenaline and the situation at hand, surely, but knowing what you would do if placed in a situation isn't necessarily better than speculating about what you might do.
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#8 Dec 20 2011 at 9:01 AM Rating: Good
I can't bring myself to kill a squirrel. I don't know how I'd behave if I was threatened.
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#9varusword75, Posted: Dec 20 2011 at 9:10 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Did Elinda just ask if anyone has ever killed anyone? Really? Democrat voters at their best.
#10 Dec 20 2011 at 9:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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Duke Lubriderm wrote:
I can't bring myself to kill a squirrel. I don't know how I'd behave if I was threatened.



Don't worry too much about it. Unless it's rabid, a squirrel can't hurt you too much. /comfort

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#11 Dec 20 2011 at 9:15 AM Rating: Good
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Samira wrote:
Duke Lubriderm wrote:
I can't bring myself to kill a squirrel. I don't know how I'd behave if I was threatened.



Don't worry too much about it. Unless it's rabid, a squirrel can't hurt you too much. /comfort


Until one becomes "trapped" in your home. Then it's all hands on deck.
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#12 Dec 20 2011 at 9:19 AM Rating: Good
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I've had bats and birds in my house, but never had a squirrel.
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#13 Dec 20 2011 at 9:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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If I was a squirrel, I'd totally go into Lub's house and fuck his **** all up. I'd be all "Go get me some more beer nuts, **** so I can bury them in your couch. Also, your PS3 doesn't seem to work any more. Probably because I chewed all the wires. Fuck you."
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#14 Dec 20 2011 at 9:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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BrownDuck wrote:
Until one becomes "trapped" in your home. Then it's all hands on deck.
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#15 Dec 20 2011 at 9:31 AM Rating: Good
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varusword75 wrote:
Did Elinda just ask if anyone has ever killed anyone? Really? Democrat voters at their best.

lol


I don't always vote democrat.

You know what else, not everything in life, the universe or the assylum is politically driven.

Another question:

If you were presented with immunity and opportunity, do you think you could 'off' Varus?





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#16 Dec 20 2011 at 9:33 AM Rating: Good
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Duke Lubriderm wrote:
I can't bring myself to kill a squirrel. I don't know how I'd behave if I was threatened.

Listen to it's ramblings, try and understand it's needs, nurture it, love it and accept it for what it is. Don't judge.
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#17varusword75, Posted: Dec 20 2011 at 9:37 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Elinda,
#18 Dec 20 2011 at 9:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
If you were presented with immunity and opportunity, do you think you could 'off' Varus?
Zero value target.
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#19 Dec 20 2011 at 9:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
If you were presented with immunity and opportunity, do you think you could 'off' Varus?
What good would that do? There will always be stupid and ignorant people.
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#20 Dec 20 2011 at 9:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
If you were presented with immunity and opportunity, do you think you could 'off' Varus?

Nah. The Republicans deserve him.
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#21 Dec 20 2011 at 9:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Elinda wrote:
If you were presented with immunity and opportunity, do you think you could 'off' Varus?
Zero value target.


UglySasquatch wrote:
What good would that do? There will always be stupid and ignorant people.


Ah, the hive mind buzzes on. Smiley: laugh

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#22 Dec 20 2011 at 10:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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Oh that's not hive mind. Lolgaxe and I are actually the same person, just using 2 accounts. It's the only way to out post Joph without getting banned for spamming.
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#23 Dec 20 2011 at 10:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'd have gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for you pesky posters.
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#24 Dec 20 2011 at 10:55 AM Rating: Default
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lolgaxe wrote:
Elinda wrote:
If so, how did you come to terms with it?
Telling myself that if I don't, a lot more people would be endangered. Not that it helps me sleep any.


Fortunately I haven't been in that position and probably ever wont, but that would be my thought.
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#25 Dec 20 2011 at 11:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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I've played a lot of Team Fortress 2 so I'm pretty sure that's prepared me. I'd be all "pew! pew! lol ur **** n00b lrn2ply".
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#26 Dec 20 2011 at 11:29 AM Rating: Decent
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I could do it if it was necessary, it would have to be a life threatening situation. I'm very cold and calculating when the pressure is on. I'd probably feel sick about it later though and it would haunt me for the rest of my life.
#27 Dec 20 2011 at 11:30 AM Rating: Good
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Depends on the situation. In a face to face kill or be killed instance, absolutely without hesitation. In a "sniper" situation where they don't have a clue that they are in danger and can't defend themselves. I might have some reservations about that. Unless of course they are about to do some ethnic cleansing with a zippo.
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#28 Dec 20 2011 at 11:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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Yodabunny wrote:
I could do it if it was necessary, it would have to be a life threatening situation. I'm very cold and calculating when the pressure is on. I'd probably feel sick about it later though and it would haunt me for the rest of my life.


I think I'd be just the opposite, personally. I know from MA training that it's very hard for me to hurt someone else; but in the event, if I had to, I think if I got past that inhibition I'd probably be able to live with it.

If I didn't get past that inhibition I'd be dead, I suppose. Problem solved!

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#29 Dec 20 2011 at 11:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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Video games dehumanized me.

First thing I do is eat a plate of food and gain 50 health. Then I load up my guns and just start blasting away.
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#30 Dec 20 2011 at 12:23 PM Rating: Good
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Dunno if I could or not. I'd have to feel really threatened, like, if someone was in my apartment or trying to harm my family. Even then, I'm not sure.

In MMA, I have a problem with my "killer instinct" during training sometimes. When I mount an opponent...

(Okay, go on, get it out of your system. I'll wait.)

...

(Had a good laugh? We good?) Continuing on:

...when I mount an opponent, and have a chance to throw punches at their face, I have a tendency to pause, like I'm not sure I really want to start hitting them.

Not sure if that'd translate to a life/death situation, though. I've never really been in a fight in real life.
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#31 Dec 20 2011 at 12:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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Eske Esquire wrote:
Dunno if I could or not. I'd have to feel really threatened, like, if someone was in my apartment or trying to harm my family. Even then, I'm not sure.


Funny thing about that. Maybe it's just me but some kind of instinct just takes over when you feel your kids are threatened. It's weird and a little scary in retrospect, but I'm pretty sure I'd have no problem risking my life to save theirs (even if that meant killing the person who was threatening them).

Edited, Dec 20th 2011 10:29am by someproteinguy
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#32 Dec 20 2011 at 12:34 PM Rating: Good
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I didn't have a problem hitting someone with a car.

Nor when I stabbed him.

Oh wait. I stabbed him first then hit him with a car.

It was 2 separate incidents, and he knows that he **** me off both times.

Smiley: lol Young love.
#33 Dec 20 2011 at 12:37 PM Rating: Decent
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varusword75 wrote:
Elinda,

Could and would like to being a key distinction.

Could? Easy enough. Would? Probably not worth the effort.
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#34 Dec 20 2011 at 1:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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#35 Dec 20 2011 at 1:39 PM Rating: Good
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Thumbelyna Quick Hands wrote:
I didn't have a problem hitting someone with a car.

Nor when I stabbed him.

Oh wait. I stabbed him first then hit him with a car.

It was 2 separate incidents, and he knows that he **** me off both times.

Smiley: lol Young love.


Blame it on the estrogen.
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#36 Dec 20 2011 at 2:10 PM Rating: Decent
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ArexLovesPie wrote:
Thumbelyna Quick Hands wrote:
I didn't have a problem hitting someone with a car.

Nor when I stabbed him.

Oh wait. I stabbed him first then hit him with a car.

It was 2 separate incidents, and he knows that he **** me off both times.

Smiley: lol Young love.


Blame it on the estrogen.

Blame it on the a a a a a a alcohol
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#37 Dec 20 2011 at 2:11 PM Rating: Good
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Debalic wrote:
ArexLovesPie wrote:
Thumbelyna Quick Hands wrote:
I didn't have a problem hitting someone with a car.

Nor when I stabbed him.

Oh wait. I stabbed him first then hit him with a car.

It was 2 separate incidents, and he knows that he **** me off both times.

Smiley: lol Young love.
Blame it on the estrogen.
Blame it on the a a a a a a alcohol
Blame it on the ra~ai~ain.

Edited, Dec 20th 2011 3:11pm by lolgaxe
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#38 Dec 20 2011 at 3:25 PM Rating: Good
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I wouldn't go out of my way to kill someone, and would prefer other options, but if it came to it,I would have no problem slaying someone. I'd feel bad in a 'Man, you are a dumb motherfucker' way after the initial adrenal rush, not in a "I can't accept what I did, I am a bad person" way.
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#39varusword75, Posted: Dec 20 2011 at 3:34 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Debo,
#40 Dec 20 2011 at 3:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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Edited, Dec 20th 2011 4:36pm by lolgaxe
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#41 Dec 20 2011 at 3:41 PM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Debalic wrote:
ArexLovesPie wrote:
Thumbelyna Quick Hands wrote:
I didn't have a problem hitting someone with a car.

Nor when I stabbed him.

Oh wait. I stabbed him first then hit him with a car.

It was 2 separate incidents, and he knows that he **** me off both times.

Smiley: lol Young love.
Blame it on the estrogen.
Blame it on the a a a a a a alcohol
Blame it on the ra~ai~ain.

Edited, Dec 20th 2011 3:11pm by lolgaxe


You could probably blame it on the hormones. I was quite **** at the age of 16. Can't blame the alcohol. I don't drink.

I did give him fair warning before I hit him with the car. And I wasn't going that fast. Barely 10 miles an hour. If you tell your girlfriend that you're not getting out of the way and she's going to have to drive over you to get out of there, well, then, that's your own **** fault.

And if your girlfriend tells you to eat your eggs, eat your **** eggs before she stabs you. And it was with a fork, not a knife, but I still did break skin.

Man, I loved that guy. Smiley: lol
#42 Dec 20 2011 at 3:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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varusword75 wrote:
little mexican wanna be gangsta

The gangsta wanted to be Mexican?

Also, "gangsta" is in my Chrome spell check Smiley: dubious
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#43 Dec 20 2011 at 3:43 PM Rating: Good
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Woah, you crazy.
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#44 Dec 20 2011 at 3:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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Thumbelyna Quick Hands wrote:


You could probably blame it on the hormones. I was quite **** at the age of 16. Can't blame the alcohol. I don't drink.

I did give him fair warning before I hit him with the car. And I wasn't going that fast. Barely 10 miles an hour. If you tell your girlfriend that you're not getting out of the way and she's going to have to drive over you to get out of there, well, then, that's your own **** fault.

And if your girlfriend tells you to eat your eggs, eat your @#%^ing eggs before she stabs you. And it was with a fork, not a knife, but I still did break skin.

Man, I loved that guy. Smiley: lol


My ex fiance once dumped my mac and cheese I was cooking on the floor because I wasn't paying enough attention to her when she was mad, also she broke my sunglasses via her fist.

Is your name Amanda?
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#45 Dec 20 2011 at 3:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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varusword75 wrote:
Debo,

Quote:
Could? Easy enough


lol...doubtful.



Now how many street fights have I been in...let's just say more than a handful. During these fights i've been hit in the head with a pool cue, hit in the head with those thick crystal ash trays, been hit in the back with a brick, had a little mexican wanna be gangsta try and stab me in the head in the passengers side of my buds jeep back in tx years ago. Fortunately i've won most of my fights and only have a few scars to show.

I'm always on guard.


If you've gotten into more than a handful of street fights, you're a douche, and the problem is on your end.

That's hypothetically speaking, of course.
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#47 Dec 20 2011 at 4:22 PM Rating: Excellent
I realize the OP was about cruelty but this book, On Killing, goes pretty deeply in the psychology of the act of killing itself. It's a good read.

varusword75 wrote:
or I was a skinny little white boy living in apartments packed with spicks and n*ggers who don't care about anything other than trying to pick on the little white kid. Some of us had to learn to fight at a young age to survive.
Yeah; pool cues and heavy crystal ashtrays are indicative of barfights, which I doubt you got into in grade school.

Nice try, though.
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#48 Dec 20 2011 at 4:26 PM Rating: Good
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varusword75 wrote:
packed with spicks and n*ggers who don't care about anything other than trying to pick on the little white kid.


They should have just done the world a favor instead of playing around. I'm guessing you were but a mere chew toy for the neighborhood kiddies.
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You guys keep tossing facts out there like they mean something.


#49 Dec 20 2011 at 4:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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Friar Bijou wrote:
I realize the OP was about cruelty but this book, On Killing, goes pretty deeply in the psychology of the act of killing itself. It's a good read.

varusword75 wrote:
or I was a skinny little white boy living in apartments packed with spicks and n*ggers who don't care about anything other than trying to pick on the little white kid. Some of us had to learn to fight at a young age to survive.
Yeah; pool cues and heavy crystal ashtrays are indicative of barfights, which I doubt you got into in grade school.

Nice try, though.


These guys were my favorite type of people to throw out of the bar. Not only did I get to legally inflict pain on them for being stupid, but they ALWAYS come back for more.
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#50 Dec 20 2011 at 4:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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Friar Bijou wrote:
Nice try, though.
Were you looking for reality from a varus post? Smiley: dubious
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#51 Dec 20 2011 at 4:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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varusword75 wrote:
Eskse,

or I was a skinny little white boy living in apartments packed with spicks and n*ggers who don't care about anything other than trying to pick on the little white kid. Some of us had to learn to fight at a young age to survive.

Wanna check my high school rep just ask anyone from south tx about the bluff.


Careful, keep adding to that backstory and the fiction is going to start toeing the line of believability.
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