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#727 Feb 13 2012 at 5:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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SingBismark wrote:
I don't understand the lack of faith in, and the lack of discussion about Ron Paul as a serious candidat... He has the support of the military, and from what I can tell, the whole world when it comes to his foreign policy, and he's the only one who plans on seriously addressing any sort of budget reform through auditing the fed and ending bailouts.


That's why. No one likes logic.

He also has glaring flaws, such as being a former presidential loser (never even makes it as the candidate). But, hey-o, guess we can say that about Romney too?
#728 Feb 13 2012 at 6:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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Paul's foreign policy is anathema to the GOP. Some of his fiscal policies (eliminating the Fed, returning to the gold standard) are considered unrealistic by everyone. Besides his inability to capture states, he would have the whole of the GOP machine working against him if he ever threatened to capture the nomination.

Also, the later contests are binding, winner-takes-all affairs and I can't see Paul winning enough of those to seriously have a chance at anything.

This is all aside from whatever I my personally think of Ron Paul. Debating me and my view of the gold standard won't change how its perceived by the party at large.
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#729 Feb 13 2012 at 6:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
is there a reason that this whole thread was basically only Romney, Gingrich, and Santorum hype with just a little hint of Paul? Am I wrong to be taking him seriously?


Because Paul has the worst qualities of each of those, and a whole lot of bigotry and conspiracy theory baggage as well? Because his "foreign policy" is the worst sort of naive, toxic isolationism in a global economy?

Are you wrong to take him seriously? I'm not sure. It depends on what you want, I suppose. His statements on fiscal responsibility in particular are useful, for keeping the conversation on point.
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#730 Feb 13 2012 at 6:40 AM Rating: Excellent
The reason no Republicans take Ron Paul seriously as a candidate is because he's not a Republican. He's a real Libertarian, and as much as the Tea Party likes to make overtures about Going Galt, none of them are real Libertarians and neither is anyone else really in the Republican party.
#731 Feb 13 2012 at 8:04 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Romney wins Maine caucus by 194 votes. Fails to call it "meaningless" despite it being as nonbinding as Minnesota and Colorado was. Or Iowa for that matter.
Leading by 8 is a monumental victory, trailing by 130 is basically a tie.
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#732 Feb 13 2012 at 8:07 AM Rating: Good
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I hope in the general election that all you repubs think that Romney has it by a landslide so you guys don't show up.


What a fantastic excuse.
#733 Feb 13 2012 at 8:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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Speaking of not bothering to show up...
Electoral-Vote.com wrote:
Noteworthy is that only 5,516 Republicans showed up to vote, even though they had an entire week to do so. In 2008, John McCain got 295,273 votes in Maine, so if we take this as the number of Republicans in Maine, fewer than 2% of Maine Republicans bothered to vote.

I guess all those Romney supporters were so relaxed by the recent string of primary losses that they decided to stay home since Romney had it all under control.
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Belkira wrote:
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#734 Feb 13 2012 at 8:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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That's simple. Supporters of NotRomney were all so despondent over how bad their chosen candidates were doing so they came to the conclusion that it was futile to even bother showing up to vote.
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#735 Feb 14 2012 at 12:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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The reason no Republicans take Ron Paul seriously as a candidate is because he's not a Republican. He's a real Libertarian


Of course he isn't. He's the sort of abject political opportunist who makes crazy oversimplifications of complex issues for personal profit (yes even moreso than other candidates). He's just in it for the fame, and mostly, the money.

Why does no one take him seriously? Because he's not running for President of the United States. He's running for President of the Self Righteous Neck-beards With Too Much Money. He's a Republican, he votes like any other Republican, he gets whipped like any other Republican. He raises a lot of money (that he later, you know, pockets) from internet donors because he's struck a particularly rich vein of oversimplification that appeals to marginally successful people who are convinced of their own genius.

They're a weird and fickle lot, these idiots who think things like fractional reserve banking is a bad idea and that 10 year olds should be able to buy pharmaceutical grade Heroin from vending machines. They latch on to a fellow though, I'll give them that. It used to be harder. Lyndon Larouche had to print leaflets and publish whacko books. Ross Perot had the brilliant idea of making oversimplified charts to explain his unworkable oversimplified rhetoric. Paul has had the good fortune of having been anointed without really trying.

Let's look at the archetype he represents, and it's clearly an archetype. I'll call it the "Frustrated Wise Gnome." What are the key characteristics that let you build this persona that the soft minded so identify with? It's simple really.

1. A FWG must be ordinary looking and socially awkward. Ugly is allowed, but average will do. Dennis Kucinich, Ralph Nader, the aforementioned Hercule Ross Pierrot (you're welcome, Sam) etc.

2. A FWG must be consistent with his whacko rhetoric. The great squishy headed minority value consistency very highly. After all the answers are simple, why would you change your mind?

3. A FWG must either seem perpetually amazed that what he proposes doesn't happen, OR have an elaborate conspiracy theory why, either attached to him post hoc, or that he propagates himself. Ideally, both, of course. And most ideally, the FWG is a blank slate softies can project their own craziness on.

4. A FWG must obviously have no real hope of victory, but must continue to campaign and spread his "message" regardless. Rarely a problem given the money involved when one catches on.

5. Oh, right, should go without saying, but white male. The vastness of the soft mildly successful class is composed of white men.

Paul ticks all the boxes. Easy, completely impossible solution for every problem, that if ever tested would lead to disaster, but that will never be tested because...well they obviously lead to disaster. Ordinary looking, socially awkward, committed to ideas (except when told to vote the opposite way), easy to project whatever you want onto, he's really the whole FWG package. He lacks the broader appeal of a Perot, which is probably good for him, long term. The FWG star burns out quickly if exposed to too much reality. It's best if it hovers at the edges.

As for his actual positions, who gives a ****? He's a character actor, not a leading man. It's cute that his son was elected a Senator, but that's about the end of the family dynasty. The best we can hope for future amusement from the family is that his kid has a son and names him Paul.
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#736 Feb 14 2012 at 6:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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Smasharoo wrote:
Hercule Ross Pierrot


My dear inspector, eet ees simplicity eetself! Smiley: laugh

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#737 Feb 14 2012 at 11:48 AM Rating: Good
I attribute Ron Paul's 'success' entirely to his name.
#738 Feb 14 2012 at 12:36 PM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
He's a character actor, not a leading man.
He's a political Will Ferrel.
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#739 Feb 14 2012 at 12:46 PM Rating: Good
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Also, Ron Paul looks remarkably like Marshall Applewhite.
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George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#740 Feb 14 2012 at 1:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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Political Wire wrote:
"Pressure is on the Maine Republican Party to reconsider its weekend declaration that Mitt Romney won the state's caucuses," the Bangor Daily News reports.

"A number of communities were not included in that poll because they had not held their caucuses in time. Washington County Republicans postponed their caucuses, originally scheduled for Saturday, Feb. 11, because of a pending snowstorm and will now meet this Saturday. Other communities across the states also have caucuses scheduled for this weekend and later this month."

"However, a review of the town-by-town results released Saturday by the Maine GOP suggests that some communities that had caucused prior to Feb. 11 were not counted."


So that's Iowa, Nevada and now Maine that have been fucked up this GOP primary season. That's 38%? Thank God we have the Republicans here to impose voting regulations and tell us all how to hold safe, honest and accurate elections Smiley: laugh

Edited, Feb 14th 2012 1:52pm by Jophiel
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#741 Feb 14 2012 at 1:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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But the birth certificates are in order. Smiley: schooled
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George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#742 Feb 14 2012 at 3:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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The Iowa and Nevada GOP state chairs have resigned. Maine apparently left out counties that voted that night but just never got counted. Smiley: disappointed
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#743 Feb 14 2012 at 7:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
Political Wire wrote:
"Pressure is on the Maine Republican Party to reconsider its weekend declaration that Mitt Romney won the state's caucuses," the Bangor Daily News reports.

"A number of communities were not included in that poll because they had not held their caucuses in time. Washington County Republicans postponed their caucuses, originally scheduled for Saturday, Feb. 11, because of a pending snowstorm and will now meet this Saturday. Other communities across the states also have caucuses scheduled for this weekend and later this month."

"However, a review of the town-by-town results released Saturday by the Maine GOP suggests that some communities that had caucused prior to Feb. 11 were not counted."


So that's Iowa, Nevada and now Maine that have been fucked up this GOP primary season. That's 38%? Thank God we have the Republicans here to impose voting regulations and tell us all how to hold safe, honest and accurate elections Smiley: laugh


You're taking your cues from fringe sites now? The only folks making claims of some kind of conspiracy or fraud are the nutty Paulites. You're really jumping on that bandwagon now?
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More words please
#744 Feb 14 2012 at 7:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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Who said conspiracy? This is just gross incompetence. Having the GOP say how elections should be run is like having the Keystone Kops lecture you on home security.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#745 Feb 14 2012 at 8:15 PM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
Who said conspiracy? This is just gross incompetence. Having the GOP say how elections should be run is like having the Keystone Kops lecture you on home security.


I'm sure that's what someone on MSNBC said, so it must be true.
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More words please
#746 Feb 14 2012 at 8:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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Smiley: laugh Ah, it's cute because you try so hard and yet you know so very, very little about what's going on around you.

The chairs of two state GOP chairs have resigned over the fiascoes their states' primaries became. Maine is looking worse and worse. I know you'll never ever admit that I have a point but chanting "Liberal media liberal media" like some little Palin acolyte isn't a better response than just remaining silent and reassuring yourself internally.

Edited, Feb 14th 2012 8:22pm by Jophiel
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#747 Feb 14 2012 at 8:34 PM Rating: Good
Jophiel wrote:
Smiley: laugh Ah, it's cute because you try so hard and yet you know so very, very little about what's going on around you.

The chairs of two state GOP chairs have resigned over the fiascoes their states' primaries became. Maine is looking worse and worse. I know you'll never ever admit that I have a point but chanting "Liberal media liberal media" like some little Palin acolyte isn't a better response than just remaining silent and reassuring yourself internally.

Edited, Feb 14th 2012 8:22pm by Jophiel


I'm beginning to understand why Republicans all believe the zombie-Reagan lie: "Government is the problem."

They've all taken it to heart so much that they've made it come true, and it's started to affect how they even govern their own damn party.
#748 Feb 14 2012 at 8:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
Smiley: laugh Ah, it's cute because you try so hard and yet you know so very, very little about what's going on around you.


That's some irony right there.

Quote:
The chairs of two state GOP chairs have resigned over the fiascoes their states' primaries became. Maine is looking worse and worse.


So that's what MSNBC told you that the reputable Ron Paul support web site they sourced said. Right? It must be true!!!

I'll give you a secret hint: The Nevada chair had submitted her intent to resign right after the primary weeks before said primary. But I'm sure the folks on your TV who reported (with baited breath no less!) that the RNC chair in Nevada had resigned in the midst of this whole fiasco going on failed to mention that. And I'm sure you never bothered to see if there was actually a causative relation between those two. Because apparently no matter how many times I point out that during/after don't mean "because", some people still make that mistake.

Edited, Feb 14th 2012 6:43pm by gbaji
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#749 Feb 14 2012 at 9:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
That's some irony right there.

This would be cutting if, you know, you actually displayed some knowledge.

Quote:
I'll give you a secret hint: The Nevada chair had submitted her intent to resign right after the primary weeks before said primary

As I was saying...

The Nevada caucuses had been a shambles for months leading up to the event.
Las Vegas Sun wrote:
Much to the confusion of voters, the state party did not establish a common set of rules for conducting the caucuses.
Instead, it let county parties establish everything from start times to rules on whether candidates could give speeches at caucus sites.
The result was a mishmash of caucus procedures that differed in all 17 counties.
The decision to decentralize the planning — which was made in October, just four months before the event — was made when county officials became fed up with the apparent inability of the state party to get its act together.
The Atlantic wrote:
Since then, the Nevada GOP has not become any more professional, effective or able to control its grassroots activists. (In 2010, after all, they nominated Sharron Angle to challenge Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid.) The party chairwoman during the caucus, Amy Tarkanian, arranged to have her resignation effective as soon as the counting was done. She told Politico that in the face of county parties that wanted to do things their own way, she had thrown up her hands and let them.

Tarkanian's "official" reason for leaving was so her husband could run for a Congressional seat but the writing was on the wall here months ago. And trying to debate Tarkanian's reason for leaving doesn't do much to whitewash the disaster of the primary itself.

But say "MSNBC" some more. In the absence of knowing what you're talking about, you'll always have that Smiley: laugh

Edited, Feb 14th 2012 9:26pm by Jophiel
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#750 Feb 14 2012 at 9:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
I'm beginning to understand why Republicans all believe the zombie-Reagan lie: "Government is the problem."

They've all taken it to heart so much that they've made it come true, and it's started to affect how they even govern their own damn party.


Oh, it's so much worse than that. Did you read the NYT article about "conservatives" who hate taking money from the government, blame the government for giving it to them, but keep taking it because, well, they'd be broke without it?

That's some fine cognitive dissonance there, Lou.
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#751 Feb 14 2012 at 10:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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You can't take that article serious, Clint Eastwood wrote it.
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
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