Forum Settings
       
Reply To Thread

Omnibus GOP Primary ThreadFollow

#1052 Apr 03 2012 at 11:05 PM Rating: Good
Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
But we think that "single payer" is a good idea? Why? It makes no sense at all.

Because, scary "government" boogey-men aside, I'd have more faith in a system without a profit motive involved in my health care than one whose pure interest is making as much money as possible which is only done by providing the least service (cost) for the most profit. For all you go on about how the government will be involved, I can say that I have had multiple experiences with insurance companies making my medical decisions for me based on what they (not me, not my doctor) thought I should have done and what they (not me, not my doctor) thought was worth paying for. You'll need a better hand than "government will control it!" to score any points here.


Exactly. gbaji cries about how the government will ruin everything about health care, when what he doesn't realize is that the private health insurance companies already do all the things he's so afraid of. He just has had the fortunate luck to not get sick, so he hasn't had to deal with it. At least I'm assuming he's never been very sick, otherwise he wouldn't be so blind and clueless. Health insurance companies deny people coverage every day. Sometimes it kills people, sometimes it doesn't. You say that we have the option of choosing our health care elsewhere if they do that, but we really don't. If you have a pre-existing condition, you can't switch insurance companies because a new one won't cover what is already wrong with you. Thankfully that is one of the things that Obamacare will be fixing within the next couple of years. Even if you didn't, a lot of the insurance companies do the same damn thing. I'm not going to claim that all of them do it, because obviously I don't know that. But I wouldn't be surprised if all of them did. How can we have a fair market system if all of the providers of a given service do the exact same corrupt things, and not give us the care we have paid for?

btw, I'm not completely against the free market concept. I do think there should be some regulation for certain things, but overall I don't have an issue with free market in most cases. It doesn't belong in health care though. Frankly, I don't think the free market system belongs in any market that is a human need. The reason for that is simple, if it is a human need, people will pay whatever they can possibly afford (even at the detriment of other needs that may be less important at a given time) for that particular item, because they NEED it. Your comment above about why candy bars or whatever it was, don't cost $1500 is not an equal comparison because nobody needs to eat candy bars. People do need health care, and they need (nutritious) food, and water and shelter, amongst a few other things. If people cannot afford something that they need, they can die. Or at the very least, their quality of life will suffer greatly.

For example, Person A and Person B both have brain tumors. Person A has no health insurance, while Person B does. Person A cannot afford a biopsy or a surgery to remove the tumor, so they will most likely die. Person B can, because of their health insurance. There is a good chance they will survive the brain tumor as long as it isn't a particularly aggressive variety of brain tumor. How in the world is that in any way fair?

You said it makes no logical sense to support a universal health care system. As far as I'm concerned, it makes no logical sense to NOT support a universal health care system. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
____________________________
Proudmoore US server:
Popina, 90 Priest
Digits, 86 Shaman
Thelesis, 85 Mage
Willowmei, 85 Druid
Necralita, 85 DK
Shrika, 72 Warlock
Jaquelle, 54 Paladin
Grakine, 32 Hunter
The MMO-Zam's FB group. Please message me first so I know who you are.
#1053 Apr 03 2012 at 11:14 PM Rating: Good
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
In actual election primary news, CNN is reporting that the primary for president is officially sewn up. That's right, Barack Obama has crossed the 2,778 delegate threshold to become the Democratic nominee for President of the United States.

The fact that he was able to do so this quickly, defeating challengers such as Jim Rogers, John Wolfe Jr and Vermin Supreme has shown us the strongest primary campaign performance seen for at least the last 96 months.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#1054 Apr 03 2012 at 11:19 PM Rating: Good
Did he even have any challengers? O.o I certainly haven't heard of any.
____________________________
Proudmoore US server:
Popina, 90 Priest
Digits, 86 Shaman
Thelesis, 85 Mage
Willowmei, 85 Druid
Necralita, 85 DK
Shrika, 72 Warlock
Jaquelle, 54 Paladin
Grakine, 32 Hunter
The MMO-Zam's FB group. Please message me first so I know who you are.
#1055 Apr 03 2012 at 11:40 PM Rating: Good
Sage
****
4,041 posts
#1056 Apr 04 2012 at 12:02 AM Rating: Good
**
569 posts
Yeah I'm done with the retard. Love how he tried to slip in that I'm on my parents insurance wish I was to bad I gave that up about 12 years ago when I started working full time. He really has no idea how much suffering you go though when you life sh*ts on you. Going from perfect health to in ICU barely hanging on in a couple of weeks makes you see things in a new light. If I didn't have insurance I would had been $%^ed. Sure I would had been treated and stabilized but the ICD I had to get and the LVAD and finally my heart wouldn't have came about. That alone tallied up to 1.8 mil. Hell I got to burn though almost all of my savings(well 10k the other 5k I had saved went to the deposit for my heart) just paying for 2 years of cobra. I'm still looking at the real possibility of having to file bankruptcy.
____________________________
.
#1057 Apr 04 2012 at 4:13 AM Rating: Excellent
Everyone's Oiran
Avatar
*****
15,886 posts
Smiley: frown
Good luck with your health and finances, Ravenn. Smiley: flowers
____________________________
<3

http://www.reddit.com/r/Forum4/
#1058 Apr 04 2012 at 7:00 AM Rating: Excellent
Gurue
*****
16,226 posts
Friar Bijou wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Think about it. Right now, if you are uninsured but need care, you can go to a hospital and get it. If you are unable to pay for the cost, the state will pick up the tab. So right now, we have a system where the taxpayer will pay for the care for those who can't pay for it themselves.
Please be so kind as to direct me to this magical fairyland. I need eye surgery that will cost at least 12K$ and diagnosis and treatment for the underlying cause. NO DOCTOR CLINIC OR HOSPITAL will do anything for me without either cash up front or insurance. I have neither. I will go untreated. Period.

Same here. I'm pretty sure I have a herniated disk. But I'm not insured. The best I can hope for right now is to pay for my own x-rays and then to hear a doctor say "Yep, you need surgery, physical therapy or both". And then go home with my back still out of whack because there's no way I can pay for that on my own.
#1059 Apr 04 2012 at 7:16 AM Rating: Good
******
41,214 posts
Jophiel wrote:
In actual election primary news, CNN is reporting that the primary for president is officially sewn up. That's right, Barack Obama has crossed the 2,778 delegate threshold to become the Democratic nominee for President of the United States.
I was on the edge of my seat as they tallied up the votes.
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#1060 Apr 04 2012 at 7:21 AM Rating: Good
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
By my count, this gives Obama over 400% more delegates than Romney has collected, thus proving that Obama is a 400% better presidential candidate.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#1061 Apr 04 2012 at 7:49 AM Rating: Good
******
41,214 posts
That's just obvious, Joph.
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#1062 Apr 04 2012 at 9:39 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
Today's "Vote of Confidence" Award...
Joe Scarborough wrote:
Nobody thinks Romney's going to win. Let's just be honest. Can we just say this for everybody at home? Let me just say this for everybody at home. The Republican establishment -- I've yet to meet a single person in the Republican establishment that thinks Mitt Romney is going to win the general election this year. They won't say it on TV because they've got to go on TV and they don't want people writing them nasty emails. I obviously don't care. But I have yet to meet anybody in the Republican establishment that worked for George W. Bush, that works in the Republican congress, that worked for Ronald Reagan that thinks Mitt Romney is going to win the general election.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#1063 Apr 04 2012 at 9:43 AM Rating: Good
Needs More Smut
Avatar
*****
19,465 posts
Romney is the sacrificial goat so that no one who has a chance in 2016 will be seriously damaged in 2012.
____________________________
FFXI: Catwho on Bismarck. Once again a top bard on the server: Dardaubla 90 on 1/6/2014
Thayos wrote:
I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

FFXIV: Katarh Mest on Lamia - Member of The Swarm and the League of Extraordinary Crafters
#1064 Apr 04 2012 at 9:45 AM Rating: Good
******
41,214 posts
He was clearly tricked by the liberal media to say that.
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#1065 Apr 04 2012 at 11:19 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
******
25,522 posts
Nadenu wrote:
Friar Bijou wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Think about it. Right now, if you are uninsured but need care, you can go to a hospital and get it. If you are unable to pay for the cost, the state will pick up the tab. So right now, we have a system where the taxpayer will pay for the care for those who can't pay for it themselves.
Please be so kind as to direct me to this magical fairyland. I need eye surgery that will cost at least 12K$ and diagnosis and treatment for the underlying cause. NO DOCTOR CLINIC OR HOSPITAL will do anything for me without either cash up front or insurance. I have neither. I will go untreated. Period.

Same here. I'm pretty sure I have a herniated disk. But I'm not insured. The best I can hope for right now is to pay for my own x-rays and then to hear a doctor say "Yep, you need surgery, physical therapy or both". And then go home with my back still out of whack because there's no way I can pay for that on my own.
Smiley: frown
How can anyone seriously want to stick with a system where sh*t like this happens?
____________________________
Theophany wrote:
YOU'RE AN ELITIST @#%^ AETHIEN, NO WONDER YOU HAVE NO FRIENDS AND PEOPLE HATE YOU.
someproteinguy wrote:
Aethien you take more terrible pictures than a Japanese tourist.
Astarin wrote:
One day, Maz, you'll learn not to click on anything Aeth links.
#1066 Apr 04 2012 at 11:32 AM Rating: Good
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
She just hasn't convinced an emergency room to operate on it immediately in an emergency setting which is how you get care if you're uninsured. Not my fault if Nadenu lacks initiative.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#1067 Apr 04 2012 at 11:34 AM Rating: Excellent
Meat Popsicle
Avatar
*****
10,360 posts
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
How can anyone seriously want to stick with a system where sh*t like this happens?


I'm not sure anyone here really likes the system, we just can't agree on a way to fix it. But yeah, a little less Darwinism would be a good start. Smiley: rolleyes
____________________________
That monster in the mirror, he just might be you. -Grover
#1068 Apr 04 2012 at 12:36 PM Rating: Excellent
Gurue
*****
16,226 posts
Jophiel wrote:
She just hasn't convinced an emergency room to operate on it immediately in an emergency setting which is how you get care if you're uninsured. Not my fault if Nadenu lacks initiative.

Smiley: cry

It's true. I'm not motivated enough.
#1069 Apr 04 2012 at 1:29 PM Rating: Good
Skelly Poker Since 2008
*****
14,812 posts
Nadenu wrote:
Friar Bijou wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Think about it. Right now, if you are uninsured but need care, you can go to a hospital and get it. If you are unable to pay for the cost, the state will pick up the tab. So right now, we have a system where the taxpayer will pay for the care for those who can't pay for it themselves.
Please be so kind as to direct me to this magical fairyland. I need eye surgery that will cost at least 12K$ and diagnosis and treatment for the underlying cause. NO DOCTOR CLINIC OR HOSPITAL will do anything for me without either cash up front or insurance. I have neither. I will go untreated. Period.

Same here. I'm pretty sure I have a herniated disk. But I'm not insured. The best I can hope for right now is to pay for my own x-rays and then to hear a doctor say "Yep, you need surgery, physical therapy or both". And then go home with my back still out of whack because there's no way I can pay for that on my own.
Do you really want to do that? Pre-existing condition and all......
____________________________
LOOK here.
#1070 Apr 04 2012 at 1:32 PM Rating: Good
Skelly Poker Since 2008
*****
14,812 posts
someproteinguy wrote:


I'm not sure anyone here really likes the system, we just can't agree on a way to fix it.

That's an understatement.

The most perfect plan in the world wouldn't get voted through this current batch of law-makers.
____________________________
LOOK here.
#1071 Apr 04 2012 at 1:45 PM Rating: Excellent
**
569 posts
Aripyanfar wrote:
Smiley: frown
Good luck with your health and finances, Ravenn. Smiley: flowers



Thanks. My health is improving the heart is taking well. Bankruptcy is the path of least resistance to clearing up my credit. My score is already in the crapper so it might help it lol.
____________________________
.
#1072 Apr 04 2012 at 5:28 PM Rating: Decent
Encyclopedia
******
30,831 posts
So Obama was wrong when he said that we're already paying for this care anyway via emergency room costs, so there's no reason not to pay for it ahead of time via mandated insurance? Strange that I don't recall any of you making that point back then. Hmmmm....
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#1073 Apr 04 2012 at 5:33 PM Rating: Good
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
If you want to re-read that and take it back, I'm willing to give you a bye, Let me know.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#1074 Apr 04 2012 at 5:34 PM Rating: Good
Needs More Smut
Avatar
*****
19,465 posts
gbaji wrote:
So Obama was wrong when he said that we're already paying for this care anyway via emergency room costs, so there's no reason not to pay for it ahead of time via mandated insurance? Strange that I don't recall any of you making that point back then. Hmmmm....


Well, if someone has high blood pressure but can't afford the diagnostic visit or the medication and ends up having a heart attack and going to the emergency room over it, then yes, we're still paying for it.
____________________________
FFXI: Catwho on Bismarck. Once again a top bard on the server: Dardaubla 90 on 1/6/2014
Thayos wrote:
I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

FFXIV: Katarh Mest on Lamia - Member of The Swarm and the League of Extraordinary Crafters
#1075 Apr 04 2012 at 5:54 PM Rating: Default
Encyclopedia
******
30,831 posts
PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
Exactly. gbaji cries about how the government will ruin everything about health care, when what he doesn't realize is that the private health insurance companies already do all the things he's so afraid of.


I've already pointed out repeatedly that the current system has serious problems. My argument is that the problems it has today are not the free market parts, but the effect of the government's existing involvement in our health care system.

Quote:
He just has had the fortunate luck to not get sick, so he hasn't had to deal with it. At least I'm assuming he's never been very sick, otherwise he wouldn't be so blind and clueless. Health insurance companies deny people coverage every day.


Out of a very very very large pool of people. Relatively speaking, it happens very very rarely. And it's usually not the assumed "OMG. This guy whose been paying us for 20 years just got sick, so let's drop him or deny coverage!". Denial of care usually is because the insurance actually doesn't cover something (which the patient knew going in and upon which the cost of the insurance was based), or because someone who is already sick buys insurance, lies about the pre-existing condition in order to get a lower cost coverage (or to get it at all), and then starts making expensive claims.

Quote:
You say that we have the option of choosing our health care elsewhere if they do that, but we really don't. If you have a pre-existing condition, you can't switch insurance companies because a new one won't cover what is already wrong with you.


You don't *now* under the existing system. And that's largely because of the government's meddling. Most of the problems people complain about now did not exist 40+ years ago when comprehensive insurance was very very rare, and most people insured only against the really rare and expensive health issues. Insurance companies could afford to keep you on and cover you *because* those conditions were rare. The odds of something happening is part of the calculation for cost. When the odds are low, the insurance company can afford to cover even very expensive stuff while still keeping the premium cost within reasonable range for most people.

Quote:
Thankfully that is one of the things that Obamacare will be fixing within the next couple of years.


We could have accomplished the same thing without all the other garbage in Obamacare. That's kind of the point. There were a half dozen or so major reforms that both GOP and Dems agreed on. But instead of doing those things, which also happen to address most of the problems people complain about, the Dems decided to pile a bunch of other stuff on top of it. Then they deliberately made the bill inseperable, so that it could not be dismantled. And then played a bunch of procedural tricks in Congress to get it passed even though it had massive public opposition to it.


Of course, if/when the court rules the mandate unconstitutional, this also means a high probability that the whole law will just be tossed out and the Congress told to start over. So basically several years of time wasted because the Dems just couldn't help but toss their own partisan agenda into the issue and were willing to hold legitimate health care reform hostage to that goal.

Quote:
Even if you didn't, a lot of the insurance companies do the same damn thing. I'm not going to claim that all of them do it, because obviously I don't know that. But I wouldn't be surprised if all of them did. How can we have a fair market system if all of the providers of a given service do the exact same corrupt things, and not give us the care we have paid for?


As long as the government is mandating and regulating the market to the point where all the companies will do the same thing, then you are correct. We can't have a fair market. Hence why I keep saying to get government out of it.

Quote:
btw, I'm not completely against the free market concept. I do think there should be some regulation for certain things, but overall I don't have an issue with free market in most cases.


I also agree that we need "some regulation" for certain things. But we are well past just some regulation and well into government choking the free market to death.

Quote:
It doesn't belong in health care though. Frankly, I don't think the free market system belongs in any market that is a human need.


Stop and think about how absurd that is. All markets involve human needs in some way.

Quote:
The reason for that is simple, if it is a human need, people will pay whatever they can possibly afford (even at the detriment of other needs that may be less important at a given time) for that particular item, because they NEED it.


Which is precisely the reason why we should use the free market to manage this. Since people will be willing to pay any amount for something they "need", as long as there is any limit to resources (and there always is), costs will become prohibitive over time if you don't allow the free market to step in. While it may seem harsh, the reality is that there is only X amount of dollars to pay for liver transplants, or brain surgeries, or chemo treatments. This does not change if you put the government in charge of things. It just changes the criteria used to determine who gets those things.

Quote:
Your comment above about why candy bars or whatever it was, don't cost $1500 is not an equal comparison because nobody needs to eat candy bars. People do need health care, and they need (nutritious) food, and water and shelter, amongst a few other things. If people cannot afford something that they need, they can die. Or at the very least, their quality of life will suffer greatly.


People need to eat though. They need roofs over their heads. They need clothing. They need heat and air conditioning, and transportation, and education, and clean water, and air, and on and on and on and on. You can certainly find some individual products which people don't need, but not any whole market. The reality is that there is always more need for things then there are things available. That's the principle of scarcity. Again, you're not changing this by using the government rather than the free market to place relative value on those things and determine who can get them and who can't. You're only changing how we make those determinations.

Quote:
For example, Person A and Person B both have brain tumors. Person A has no health insurance, while Person B does. Person A cannot afford a biopsy or a surgery to remove the tumor, so they will most likely die. Person B can, because of their health insurance. There is a good chance they will survive the brain tumor as long as it isn't a particularly aggressive variety of brain tumor. How in the world is that in any way fair?


Depends on your definition of fair and how broadly you look at the issue. Person A has no health insurance because he can't afford it. He can't afford it because he does not have a job which pays him enough. His job pays him so little because the value of what he does to the rest of society is relatively small. Person B has health insurance because he can afford it. He can afford it because his job *is* valued high enough by the rest of society to pay him a high enough salary.

While it seems harsh at first glance the free market method automatically ensures that those who receive the life saving/extending health care are those who are most valuable to society. And that value is not based on some arbitrary determination. It's based on the value placed on the labor of that person as judged independently and individually by other people who themselves are seeking the greatest value in return for their own labors. There is no better way to make that determination.

It's as "fair' as it can be. Fair does not always mean "nice".

Quote:
You said it makes no logical sense to support a universal health care system. As far as I'm concerned, it makes no logical sense to NOT support a universal health care system. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.


It really depends on what you think your goal is. IMO, universal health care is something sold to the masses to make them think that they can make everyone's lives better. But it is a myth. Ultimately, you still have scarcity. You still have costs. What universal health care does is take the cost and purchasing choices out of the hands of those who have earned the money in question and into the hands of the government. I really do believe that, like most modern liberal political positions, it has very little to do with actually providing "free health care" and far far more to do with empowering the government. And while I'm sure that a good percentage of those pushing for these sorts of things really do believe that if they can just give the government sufficient power to run things that it can create a better brighter future for us all, I think they are being dangerously naive.


The power to provide is the power to take away. Don't ever forget that.
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#1076 Apr 04 2012 at 5:57 PM Rating: Decent
Encyclopedia
******
30,831 posts
catwho wrote:
gbaji wrote:
So Obama was wrong when he said that we're already paying for this care anyway via emergency room costs, so there's no reason not to pay for it ahead of time via mandated insurance? Strange that I don't recall any of you making that point back then. Hmmmm....


Well, if someone has high blood pressure but can't afford the diagnostic visit or the medication and ends up having a heart attack and going to the emergency room over it, then yes, we're still paying for it.


Then they're covered, right? You can't have it both ways. You can't focus on cases where there will be an emergency room visit when arguing that we're paying for the care anyway, but then focus on cases where there will *not* be such a visit when arguing that the current system isn't sufficient.

The argument Obama made was that costs would go down because we have to pay for all those people when they go to the emergency room anyway. But if we're covering cases where they wouldn't go to the emergency room and we wouldn't otherwise have had to pay a dime, then his argument is wrong.
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#1077 Apr 04 2012 at 6:00 PM Rating: Good
Gurue
*****
16,226 posts
gbaji wrote:
catwho wrote:
gbaji wrote:
So Obama was wrong when he said that we're already paying for this care anyway via emergency room costs, so there's no reason not to pay for it ahead of time via mandated insurance? Strange that I don't recall any of you making that point back then. Hmmmm....


Well, if someone has high blood pressure but can't afford the diagnostic visit or the medication and ends up having a heart attack and going to the emergency room over it, then yes, we're still paying for it.


Then they're covered, right?

As long as you don't mind paying for it, then we're cool.
#1078 Apr 04 2012 at 6:01 PM Rating: Excellent
Needs More Smut
Avatar
*****
19,465 posts
Wouldn't it be better to get someone on high blood pressure medication before it turns into a heart attack?

Heart attack: $10,000 ER visit at minimum, likely to be revisited since they now have an existing condition and would be denied private insurance even if they could afford it.

High blood pressure medication: $300 a year now that lipitor has generics out.

The existing system is inadequate because we spend far too much money treating diseases instead of focusing on preventing them in the first place.

Edited, Apr 4th 2012 8:01pm by catwho
____________________________
FFXI: Catwho on Bismarck. Once again a top bard on the server: Dardaubla 90 on 1/6/2014
Thayos wrote:
I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

FFXIV: Katarh Mest on Lamia - Member of The Swarm and the League of Extraordinary Crafters
#1079 Apr 04 2012 at 6:01 PM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
Hehehe... keep digging.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#1080 Apr 04 2012 at 7:25 PM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
While it seems harsh at first glance the free market method automatically ensures that those who receive the life saving/extending health care are those who are most valuable to society. And that value is not based on some arbitrary determination. It's based on the value placed on the labor of that person as judged independently and individually by other people who themselves are seeking the greatest value in return for their own labors. There is no better way to make that determination.
Right, and the point is that most people don't think that this should be the basis for who gets health care. The determination is an unnecessary one.

Edited, Apr 4th 2012 8:26pm by Xsarus
____________________________
01001001 00100000 01001100 01001001 01001011 01000101 00100000 01000011 01000001 01001011 01000101
You'll always be stupid, you'll just be stupid with more information in your brain
Forum FAQ
#1081 Apr 04 2012 at 7:49 PM Rating: Good
**
569 posts
Yeah He is beyond @#%^ing stupid now. I really hope more wing nuts like start spouting this nonsense. I bet if he got sick and lost his job tomorrow he would be singing a different tune.
____________________________
.
#1082 Apr 05 2012 at 1:24 AM Rating: Excellent
Everyone's Oiran
Avatar
*****
15,886 posts
Sometimes when I read these threads about healthcare in America I honestly start feeling sick that a whole nation of people has got itself stuck with this situation. It's like reading about appalling humanitarian crises in third world countries. Like reading about a mass of people suffering horribly, and knowing that I can't do anything meaningful to alleviate their suffering.

I'm really, really sorry for you guys. I really am.

Nadenue, Bijou... I've just started crying. That's so unfair for you.

Edited, Apr 5th 2012 3:25am by Aripyanfar
____________________________
<3

http://www.reddit.com/r/Forum4/
#1083 Apr 05 2012 at 2:25 AM Rating: Good
****
9,246 posts
Quote:
While it seems harsh at first glance the free market method automatically ensures that those who receive the life saving/extending health care are those who are most valuable to society. And that value is not based on some arbitrary determination. It's based on the value placed on the labor of that person as judged independently and individually by other people who themselves are seeking the greatest value in return for their own labors. There is no better way to make that determination.


"Hey, that person's sick, lets get him some help"?
____________________________
Master Meleagant Driftwood of Stromm, Warrior of the 69th level(EQ)
Rhyys, Human Warrior of 67th level(WoW)

The World Is Not A Cold Dead Place.
Alan Watts wrote:
I am omnipotent insofar as I am the Universe, but I am not an omnipotent in the role of Alan Watts, only cunning


Eske wrote:
I've always read Driftwood as the straight man in varus' double act. It helps if you read all of his posts in the voice of Droopy Dog.
#1084 Apr 05 2012 at 2:37 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
******
25,522 posts
Driftwood wrote:
"Hey, that person's sick, lets get him some help"?
Utter nonsense of course. That would cost money!
____________________________
Theophany wrote:
YOU'RE AN ELITIST @#%^ AETHIEN, NO WONDER YOU HAVE NO FRIENDS AND PEOPLE HATE YOU.
someproteinguy wrote:
Aethien you take more terrible pictures than a Japanese tourist.
Astarin wrote:
One day, Maz, you'll learn not to click on anything Aeth links.
#1085 Apr 05 2012 at 5:34 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
I was in the midst of typing something snarky but, honestly, if I truly believed that the majority of conservatives (or even Republicans) felt that "a person's value as a human being is determined by the capitalist free market and if you were worth a procedure, you'd already have it", I'd have to move out of the country. Instead I'll be content to let my opinion of Gbaji sink that much lower.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#1086 Apr 05 2012 at 5:39 AM Rating: Good
Everyone's Oiran
Avatar
*****
15,886 posts
News At Nine! Gbaji is a white-collar sociophath!
____________________________
<3

http://www.reddit.com/r/Forum4/
#1087 Apr 05 2012 at 6:00 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
***
2,772 posts
Quote:
High blood pressure medication: $300 a year now that lipitor has generics out.


One correction Liptor is for high cholesterol not blood pressure.

As someone who has several chronic medical conditions gbaji has no idea how better it can be to have government supplied health coverage over private insurance even when it was through an GS position.

Medicaid has made sure I don't develop complications due to HBP or Cholesterol as well as make sure I don't go into deep depression or suffer from unbearable pain every day.
____________________________
This Post is written in Elnese, If it was an actual Post, it would make sense.

"England needs, examples of people who, leaving Heaven to decide whether they are to rise in the world, decide for themselves that they will be happy in it, and have resolved to seek, not greater wealth, but simpler pleasures; not higher fortune, but deeper felicity; making the first of possessions self-possession, and honouring themselves in the harmless pride and calm pursuits of peace." - John Ruskin
#1088 Apr 05 2012 at 7:54 AM Rating: Excellent
******
41,214 posts
Aripyanfar wrote:
News At Nine! Gbaji is a white-collar sociophath!
He's no Patrick Bateman.
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#1089 Apr 05 2012 at 9:37 AM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
*****
11,699 posts
lolgaxe wrote:
Aripyanfar wrote:
News At Nine! Gbaji is a white-collar sociophath!
He's no Patrick Bateman.

____________________________
What if the bird will not sing?
Nobunaga answers, "Kill it!"
Hideyoshi answers, "Make it want to sing."
Ieyasu answers, "Wait."
Timelordwho answers "Just as Planned."
#1090 Apr 05 2012 at 9:54 AM Rating: Excellent
AAAAAA so much yellow
____________________________
01001001 00100000 01001100 01001001 01001011 01000101 00100000 01000011 01000001 01001011 01000101
You'll always be stupid, you'll just be stupid with more information in your brain
Forum FAQ
#1091 Apr 05 2012 at 10:05 AM Rating: Excellent
Meat Popsicle
Avatar
*****
10,360 posts
gbaji wrote:

While it seems harsh at first glance the free market method automatically ensures that those who receive the life saving/extending health care are those who are most valuable to society. And that value is not based on some arbitrary determination. It's based on the value placed on the labor of that person as judged independently and individually by other people who themselves are seeking the greatest value in return for their own labors. There is no better way to make that determination.


I'm without words for the moment, and there isn't a smiley that can adequately relate my feelings on this.
____________________________
That monster in the mirror, he just might be you. -Grover
#1092 Apr 05 2012 at 10:17 AM Rating: Good
******
41,214 posts
Sir Xsarus wrote:
AAAAAA so much yellow
I was more appalled at all the weapon pieces strewn about the room. Smiley: frown
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#1093 Apr 05 2012 at 10:23 AM Rating: Good
Everyone's Oiran
Avatar
*****
15,886 posts
Oh, hadn't you noticed? Deep down, conservatives rate the virtue of a person based on his income. No such thing as the virtuous poor. Or a virtuous man who can't afford health insurance. If they were virtuous, they all COULD afford health insurance. No such thing as circumstance, luck, context. If you're virtuous, you're willing to work hard. And if you're willing to work hard, then in all circumstances you WILL be able to work, and you WILL be rewarded concomitantly to your willingness to work.
____________________________
<3

http://www.reddit.com/r/Forum4/
#1094 Apr 05 2012 at 10:27 AM Rating: Good
****
6,470 posts
gbaji wrote:
While it seems harsh at first glance the free market method automatically ensures that those who receive the life saving/extending health care are those who are most valuable to society. And that value is not based on some arbitrary determination. It's based on the value placed on the labor of that person as judged independently and individually by other people who themselves are seeking the greatest value in return for their own labors. There is no better way to make that determination.


I don't know why I'm surprised, but I really can't believe that he just put that down in writing.
____________________________
Latest Articles:
Monaco: What's Yours is Mine Review

Follow me on Twitter!
#1095 Apr 05 2012 at 10:32 AM Rating: Good
Gurue
*****
16,226 posts
So, the only people that deserve health care are farmers, construction workers and possibly tailors? Since all we really need is food, shelter and clothing? Gbaji, we don't need IT techs. No more insurance for you.
#1096 Apr 05 2012 at 10:35 AM Rating: Good
Everyone's Oiran
Avatar
*****
15,886 posts
Don't forget air and water! So, like EPA guys and plumbers.
____________________________
<3

http://www.reddit.com/r/Forum4/
#1097 Apr 05 2012 at 10:43 AM Rating: Excellent
Meat Popsicle
Avatar
*****
10,360 posts
Aripyanfar wrote:
Oh, hadn't you noticed? Deep down, conservatives rate the virtue of a person based on his income. No such thing as the virtuous poor. Or a virtuous man who can't afford health insurance. If they were virtuous, they all COULD afford health insurance. No such thing as circumstance, luck, context. If you're virtuous, you're willing to work hard. And if you're willing to work hard, then in all circumstances you WILL be able to work, and you WILL be rewarded concomitantly to your willingness to work.


Yeah, I just don't know what to say. I mean I consider my own upbringing rather conservative. I mean farm, small town religious schooling and stuff. There was plenty of a "hard work" mantra being repeated and looked up to. Still though, that 'compassionate christian' side would kick in these circumstances and over-ride all that. Part of being a good community, good friend, good christian, or whatever was making sure everyone was taken care of to the best of your abilities. No one was unworthy of your compassion, you gave people a hand when they were down on their luck, etc. Pursuit of money being the root of all evil or something.

Just doesn't strike me as the 'conservative values' that I thought I knew.

Edited, Apr 5th 2012 9:52am by someproteinguy
____________________________
That monster in the mirror, he just might be you. -Grover
#1098 Apr 05 2012 at 10:51 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
I've been reading a lot lately from fiscal conservatives like John Avalon and David Frum. I try to remind myself that not everyone thinks like Gbaji.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#1099 Apr 05 2012 at 10:52 AM Rating: Good
Soulless Internet Tiger
******
34,611 posts
Aripyanfar wrote:
Oh, hadn't you noticed? Deep down, conservatives rate the virtue of a person based on his income. No such thing as the virtuous poor. Or a virtuous man who can't afford health insurance. If they were virtuous, they all COULD afford health insurance. No such thing as circumstance, luck, context. If you're virtuous, you're willing to work hard. And if you're willing to work hard, then in all circumstances you WILL be able to work, and you WILL be rewarded concomitantly to your willingness to work.
I'm not seeing the issue here.
____________________________
Donate. One day it could be your family.
Need a hotel at a great rate? More hotels being added weekly.

An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. Victor Hugo

#1100 Apr 05 2012 at 10:59 AM Rating: Good
Everyone's Oiran
Avatar
*****
15,886 posts
Uglysasquatch wrote:
Aripyanfar wrote:
Oh, hadn't you noticed? Deep down, conservatives rate the virtue of a person based on his income. No such thing as the virtuous poor. Or a virtuous man who can't afford health insurance. If they were virtuous, they all COULD afford health insurance. No such thing as circumstance, luck, context. If you're virtuous, you're willing to work hard. And if you're willing to work hard, then in all circumstances you WILL be able to work, and you WILL be rewarded concomitantly to your willingness to work.
I'm not seeing the issue here.
Sassy, you're smarter than this. look at the phrases that are sarcastic here.
____________________________
<3

http://www.reddit.com/r/Forum4/
#1101 Apr 05 2012 at 11:08 AM Rating: Decent
Soulless Internet Tiger
******
34,611 posts
Aripyanfar wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
Aripyanfar wrote:
Oh, hadn't you noticed? Deep down, conservatives rate the virtue of a person based on his income. No such thing as the virtuous poor. Or a virtuous man who can't afford health insurance. If they were virtuous, they all COULD afford health insurance. No such thing as circumstance, luck, context. If you're virtuous, you're willing to work hard. And if you're willing to work hard, then in all circumstances you WILL be able to work, and you WILL be rewarded concomitantly to your willingness to work.
I'm not seeing the issue here.
Sassy, you're smarter than this. look at the phrases that are sarcastic here.
Oh, I see your sarcasm, but I actually do hold that view as my initial reaction to everyone. Guilty first. Prove thy innocence.


____________________________
Donate. One day it could be your family.
Need a hotel at a great rate? More hotels being added weekly.

An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. Victor Hugo

Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 38 All times are in CDT
Aethien, Anonymous Guests (37)