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#1 Dec 07 2011 at 9:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Maybe this belongs in the thread about the Occupy Wall Street events but we'll see.
If someone already posted about this I missed it and sorry; if someone has not posted about this I'm a bit disappointed and I'm sure you'll be losing sleep over THAT! Smiley: grin

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2011/12/05/the-national-defense-authorization-act-is-the-greatest-threat-to-civil-liberties-americans-face/

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So much for innocent until proven guilty. So much for limited government. What Americans are now facing is quite literally the end of the line. We will either uphold the freedoms baked into our Constitutional Republic, or we will scrap the entire project in the name of security as we wage, endlessly, this futile, costly, and ultimately self-defeating War on Terror.


So if I wasn't paying attention I would have thought that this sort of thing would be sorted out in the last 10 years.. with all of the liberals and conservatives duking it out about their nit-picky little slogans like "civil liberties" and "national security".. but I'm guessing that most people that don't really seem to care about these things are less apathetic and more just along the lines of "Well I'M not doing anything wrong so who cares?"
As for me.. well I'm too busy feeding my wonderful nations economy with Xmas shopping and playing my Xbox to really pay attention; SO if someone could care to take a look at whats going on and let me know if I should care or not; I'd appreciate it.

After all; I'd hate to have my Netflix watching interrupted by having to worry about where our poor government is going to put all of those unpatriotic dissenters out there...
Sure sure; I know that grassroots detention camps emergency camps http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-645 have been in the works for quite some time now. http://dprogram.net/2009/08/20/rex-84-your-internment-camp-awaits-you/
It just makes me glad to know that my country can properly prepare itself for SOMETHING correctly.

YES; we can all breath a great sigh of relief to know that this is all just in time to round up all those dirty hippies that have been trying so hard to disturb my little peaceful bliss bubble of serene lethargy Smiley: tongue

Then again; not a lot of this stuff is on the REAL news networks like CNN and FOX.. so most of this is probably a bunch of lies perpetuated by a bunch of bored panic mongering psychos out there...
Nothing to worry about.. as long as I can keep filling my gas tank and playing my Call of Duty; I'm sure everything's going to be A-OK Smiley: wink2

Keep on truckin' America!
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#2 Dec 07 2011 at 10:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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Everyone who voted yes on that bill without actually reading it should be, quite literally, shot for treason. Or at least flogged. These protections are in place for a reason. Posse Comitatus is important. It "SHOULD" be a diffcult and weighty decision to deploy U.S. forces in anger on U.S. soil, and then to top it all of and put in legal justification to allow military forces the ability to indefinitly detain U.S. citizins on U.S. soil without a warrent, judicial review, or any due process is insane. They tried to defuse that provision at least, but then the stupid bastards couldn't pass the defuseing ammendment. You don't **** around with this **** people. Up until this point, everyone who has said "Oh the U.S. government is becoming another WWII Germany big brother type government" has been largely hinged upon extrapolation and hyperbole. This, right here is the moment that makes everything they have said true, and we should be ashamed to our core that even passed in the first place. There should be outrage in the streets. but there isn't.
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#3 Dec 07 2011 at 10:15 PM Rating: Default
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Kaol; your post has given me chills. If I could rate you up I would Smiley: yikes
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#4 Dec 08 2011 at 12:08 AM Rating: Decent
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Hey, any opportunity to get the military back and occupy home soil instead of third world countries on the other side of the globe sounds good in my book!
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#5 Dec 08 2011 at 12:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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I guess my problem is, how does the common citizen fight back against something like this?
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#6 Dec 08 2011 at 3:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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Debalic wrote:
Hey, any opportunity to get the military back and occupy home soil instead of third world countries on the other side of the globe sounds good in my book!


Well, until the military is occupying home.
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#7 Dec 08 2011 at 5:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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I find it telling that political pundits are debating this bill... but the wrong part. The right is mostly upset about Article 125 being repealed (ban on sodomy) rather than the ability to indefinitely hold US citizens. The left, for its part, seems to have been asleep at the wheel up until it was passed, and just now we're seeing some anger.
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#8 Dec 08 2011 at 8:11 AM Rating: Excellent
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I like that it was attached to the defense budget, as if it didn't have enough wrong with it.
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#9 Dec 08 2011 at 8:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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LockeColeMA wrote:
I find it telling that political pundits are debating this bill... but the wrong part. The right is mostly upset about Article 125 being repealed (ban on sodomy) rather than the ability to indefinitely hold US citizens. The left, for its part, seems to have been asleep at the wheel up until it was passed, and just now we're seeing some anger.

Wait...why is sodomy in any way related to this?
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we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
#10 Dec 08 2011 at 8:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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Debalic wrote:
LockeColeMA wrote:
I find it telling that political pundits are debating this bill... but the wrong part. The right is mostly upset about Article 125 being repealed (ban on sodomy) rather than the ability to indefinitely hold US citizens. The left, for its part, seems to have been asleep at the wheel up until it was passed, and just now we're seeing some anger.

Wait...why is sodomy in any way related to this?

Because the NDAA that was just approved also removed article 125 from the UCMJ, which banned sodomy.
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#11 Dec 08 2011 at 9:03 AM Rating: Excellent
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It's buried in like thirty pages of revisions to various UCMJ articles in general, mostly dealing with Article 120. Dunno, I guess they figure that 125 is redundant since 120's opening comment is "(a) Any person subject to this chapter who commits an act of sexual intercourse by force and without consent" and pretty much covers it. We'll see in the coming days, I guess.
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#12 Dec 08 2011 at 9:51 AM Rating: Good
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BrownDuck wrote:
I guess my problem is, how does the common citizen fight back against something like this?

This has been my problem too. Even though I live in the bleak tundra of southern ontario what happens to you affects us canucksicles too.
How does one fight back? If this bill passes wont the very notion of fighting back make you a terror suspect? Does that mean its too late? I don't have answers to these questions that don't involve civil war.
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#13 Dec 08 2011 at 3:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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BrownDuck wrote:
I guess my problem is, how does the common citizen fight back against something like this?


You don't, sadly.
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#14 Dec 08 2011 at 5:11 PM Rating: Good
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Might as well repeal the 2nd.
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we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
#15 Dec 08 2011 at 7:01 PM Rating: Good
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ArexLovesPie wrote:
BrownDuck wrote:
I guess my problem is, how does the common citizen fight back against something like this?


You don't, sadly.


You vote for people who won't do this Shit. Both my senators voted against this mess. How did yours vote?

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#16 Dec 08 2011 at 7:29 PM Rating: Good
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While there are some aspects to the bill that are a bit troublesome, it's not nearly as bad as the reports are making it out to be. Read what is actually said, not what you think those words imply. It allows "persons" to be detained, whether inside or outside the country. And it allows "citizens" to be detained as well as foreigners. However, those words are being switched back and forth in the stories to make it appear as though this freely allows citizens to be detained in the US and held by the US military. It doesn't. It doesn't specifically prohibit it, but it doesn't have to. We already have laws which prohibit that. This bill does not remove those other rights and privileges.


I'm reading the bill itself and I don't see anything more than a codification of policies which have already been in use for some time, and which for the most part the courts have ruled on. The attempted amendment to prohibit "persons" from being detained in the US was blocked because that includes foreigners, not just US citizens. If a terrorist arrives in the US with a bomb, he should be treated no differently because he succeeded in arriving here before being caught than if he'd been caught on foreign soil. IMO, the *only* edge case we need to worry about is US citizens captured on US soil, but that's already a legal issue which has been (partially) dealt with. This bill doesn't change that at all, despite all the claims to the contrary.

This bill absolutely does not allow US military forces to operate on US soil in violation of existing law. I'm not even sure where that idea came from.
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#17 Dec 08 2011 at 8:16 PM Rating: Decent
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The Bill, in the section that's causing all this rabble wrote:
(e) AUTHORITIES.—Nothing in this section shall be
20 construed to affect existing law or authorities, relating to
21 the detention of United States citizens, lawful resident
22 aliens of the United States or any other persons who are
23 captured or arrested in the United States.


Basically, what Gbaji said.
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#18 Dec 08 2011 at 8:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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They finally managed to pass the citizenship amendment to that, well thats something anyways. Of course that could still be stripped out in committee later too. IT most definitly wasn't in there when the bill was passed origionally. here's a brief more information history on it: http://www.lawfareblog.com/2011/12/does-the-ndaa-authorize-detention-of-us-citizens/
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#19 Dec 08 2011 at 9:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Well that was close. I'm sure no one will try THAT again.
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#20 Dec 09 2011 at 3:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Kelvyquayo wrote:
Well that was close. I'm sure no one will try THAT again.

Until some new shiny media disaster can be cooked up to distract bovine america.

Edit: I mean no disrespect to any american posters of the bovine persuasion.

Edited, Dec 9th 2011 4:44pm by Peimei
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MNK: "OK we're gonna go in and get those items."
WHM: "Did you have a plan?"
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