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#152 Dec 10 2011 at 12:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Lube wrote:
Other countries, even ones that we don't like, do kinda have a right to protect their interests.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for us sending in drones and keeping an eye on them


What would be the point of keeping an eye on them if you don't do anything about what you are seeing? And how would you account for a time when another country's interest is directly against the interest of those around it?
Should we just take Iran at it's word that it is simply looking for better ways to generate energy?
I certainly agree that it is wrong to try to impede the progress of a country; but when that country is openly hostile I'd say the worm has turned a bit.

Is war the answer? No. There are no easy answers;
But I am not holding my breath that suddenly people are going to start realizing how foolish they are and put an end to all conflict.
I just thank God that I wasn't born in Iran; from what I have seen; most of those people just want to get the hell out.
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#153 Dec 10 2011 at 12:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Should we just take Iran at it's word that it is simply looking for better ways to generate energy?


Yes, and if they happen to make a nuke who gives a sh*t. Everyone has nukes already anyway. Nukes are like condoms, everyone has a few, but no one really wants to use them.
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#154 Dec 10 2011 at 12:49 PM Rating: Default
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rdmcandie wrote:
Quote:
Should we just take Iran at it's word that it is simply looking for better ways to generate energy?


Yes, and if they happen to make a nuke who gives a sh*t. Everyone has nukes already anyway. Nukes are like condoms, everyone has a few, but no one really wants to use them.


Smiley: dubious

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#155 Dec 10 2011 at 1:20 PM Rating: Decent
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I don't know how to make it any clearer for you sorry.
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#156 Dec 10 2011 at 3:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Nadenu wrote:
Debalic wrote:
Kavekk wrote:

JD isn't even whisky, it's a bourbon.

Bourbon is still a kind of whiskey, as is scotch.

Oh, I know. Just stating that true bourbon is made in KY, and the rest of that crap can be made anywhere.

I know you know, I was telling Kavekk.
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#157 Dec 10 2011 at 3:26 PM Rating: Decent
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rdmcandie wrote:
I don't know how to make it any clearer for you sorry.

Some people definitely want to use them; it would be easy enough to get them to radicals and try to keep their own hands clean.
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#158 Dec 10 2011 at 4:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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Debalic wrote:
Nadenu wrote:
Debalic wrote:
Kavekk wrote:

JD isn't even whisky, it's a bourbon.

Bourbon is still a kind of whiskey, as is scotch.

Oh, I know. Just stating that true bourbon is made in KY, and the rest of that crap can be made anywhere.

I know you know, I was telling Kavekk.

Yeah, I realized that a bit later. I was only on my first cup of coffee, I can't be held responsible.
#159Kelvyquayo, Posted: Dec 10 2011 at 6:15 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Oh, you've made it quite clear that you are totally ignorant of reality.
#160 Dec 10 2011 at 7:05 PM Rating: Decent
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Oh, you've made it quite clear that you are totally ignorant of reality.

sorry


Nuclear arms have gone missing or been sold to "illegitimate persons" for decades, not a single reported occurrence of a Nuclear weapon being set off has taken place, since the US used them in WW2. (outside of testing).

Do you honestly believe that Islamist Jihadists are anymore violent then say the IRA, or the Chechnyan Rebels.

I might be ignorant of your opinion on reality, but here in the real world Nuclear Weapons are everywhere, most every country worth mentioning has them or access to them, yet here in the real world not a single one has used them since the world saw what they were capable of in WW2. I am also highly confident that no nation, even the Axis of Evil will use them, because any person with a single brain cell knows what the outcome will be.

You must be pretty naive, or the Bush Terrorism spin for 8 years really got you jumping at shadows.

(hell your own government sold Iran the technology to launch nukes, chances are Iran already has some from the fallout of the old USSR, so you should be in full on panic mode now.)

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#161 Dec 10 2011 at 7:50 PM Rating: Decent
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In my opinion, we happen to have been *lucky* that no other nukes have gone off (outside of testing) in the past fifty years.
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#162 Dec 10 2011 at 7:51 PM Rating: Default
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rdmcandie wrote:
Do you honestly believe that Islamist Jihadists are anymore violent then say the IRA, or the Chechnyan Rebels.


I suppose you would say "who cares" to the IRA or Chechnyan rebels getting nukes as well?
You accuse me of being paranoid and yet you are the one claiming the nuclear weapons are "everywhere!!"; pot meet kettle.

rdmcandie wrote:
most every country worth mentioning has them or access to them,

What an ignorant statement; I guess only 8 or 9 countries are worth mentioning then? Oh; you must mean worth mentioning to support you naive argument.


Debalic wrote:
In my opinion, we happen to have been *lucky* that no other nukes have gone off (outside of testing) in the past fifty years.


This I agree with.
What I can't agree with is: "Well they're everywhere anyway so who cares".




Edited, Dec 10th 2011 8:56pm by Kelvyquayo
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#163 Dec 11 2011 at 3:18 AM Rating: Good
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I suppose you would say "who cares" to the IRA or Chechnyan rebels getting nukes as well?
You accuse me of being paranoid and yet you are the one claiming the nuclear weapons are "everywhere!!"; pot meet kettle.


I would say who cares, because my opinion on the second point is that in order to be paranoid you actually have to be fearful. I am not fearful of a nuke being set off, because I am highly confident that no such act will take place in the near future, or likely before I die.

Quote:
What an ignorant statement; I guess only 8 or 9 countries are worth mentioning then? Oh; you must mean worth mentioning to support you naive argument.


Canada, Australia, Germany, France, Britain, China, Japan, Russia, Israel, S. Korea, N. Korea, Ireland, Denmark, The Netherlands, Belgium, Poland, Pakistan, India, USA, and likely at least a dozen others associated with one ore more of the aforementioned via treaties or alliance obligations.

In one way or another the majority of nations in this world have access to Nuclear weapons, to believe otherwise is naive.

Quote:
What I can't agree with is: "Well they're everywhere anyway so who cares".


then you should stop being a little bitch. Nukes have been on the black market, in and out of rouge nations for the last half century. Nukes are a defensive weapon (all be it a not very good one). Like I said earlier, everyone has nukes, just like everyone has condoms, not everyone actually wants to use either though.

It is ok though, you can live in your bubble of fear, I will happily sit in my bubble of sh*t happens and likely have a much better time not jumping at shadows built by media propaganda.




Edited, Dec 11th 2011 4:19am by rdmcandie
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#164 Dec 11 2011 at 6:43 AM Rating: Excellent
Kelvyquayo wrote:
Lube wrote:
Other countries, even ones that we don't like, do kinda have a right to protect their interests.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for us sending in drones and keeping an eye on them


What would be the point of keeping an eye on them if you don't do anything about what you are seeing? And how would you account for a time when another country's interest is directly against the interest of those around it?
Should we just take Iran at it's word that it is simply looking for better ways to generate energy?
I certainly agree that it is wrong to try to impede the progress of a country; but when that country is openly hostile I'd say the worm has turned a bit.

Is war the answer? No. There are no easy answers;
But I am not holding my breath that suddenly people are going to start realizing how foolish they are and put an end to all conflict.
I just thank God that I wasn't born in Iran; from what I have seen; most of those people just want to get the hell out.
I'm fine with us spying in any way possible. We just shouldn't be shocked when the party being spied on does things to stop it from happening, such as taking down a drone. I didn't think it was that difficult of a concept.
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#165 Dec 11 2011 at 3:02 PM Rating: Default
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Nadenu wrote:
Debalic wrote:
Nadenu wrote:
Debalic wrote:
Kavekk wrote:

JD isn't even whisky, it's a bourbon.

Bourbon is still a kind of whiskey, as is scotch.

Oh, I know. Just stating that true bourbon is made in KY, and the rest of that crap can be made anywhere.

I know you know, I was telling Kavekk.

Yeah, I realized that a bit later. I was only on my first cup of coffee, I can't be held responsible.


I'm insulting bourbon in general and JD in particular by saying they aren't actually whisky. It's kind of weird Nadenu's calling me out on this while doing exactly the same thing in saying that bourbon made in Kentucky isn't.

But don't let that stop you doing... whatever it is you're doing. Honestly, it's kind of cute.
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#166 Dec 11 2011 at 6:51 PM Rating: Decent
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No, you're just covering. It's kinda cute; have you been studying gbaji?
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#167 Dec 12 2011 at 1:08 AM Rating: Good
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rdmcandie wrote:

in order to be paranoid you actually have to be fearful.

I think you got that backwards, sport.
For the record I am not in fear of things that are not in my control; it's pointless to worry about them. I am simply pointing out the flaw in your logic and your denial of the fact that just because a nuclear attack of any kind hasn't happened yet does not mean that it cannot happen at any time.
You are just happy living in denial; like most people. I can't say I blame you. It can be a scary world outside of your computer screen.

Lubriderm wrote:
I'm fine with us spying in any way possible. We just shouldn't be shocked when the party being spied on does things to stop it from happening, such as taking down a drone. I didn't think it was that difficult of a concept.

Fair enough.
I wasn't trying to single your statement out per se; it was just a good stepping stone for my thoughts on it. I was just taking the thought a step farther in what happens when we do find that they are doing something that is against our interests; as has been stated elsewhere in the thread. Do we just nod our heads and say "yup, that ain't too cool" or actually do something about it.

I'm not advocating war; but some kind of reaction beyond more sanctions seems logical. I think no matter what happens it's going to suck for the average people living there.
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#168 Dec 12 2011 at 5:19 AM Rating: Decent
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For the record I am not in fear of things that are not in my control; it's pointless to worry about them.


But you are calling me detached from reality because I live without fear of nuclear war. Do you still sleep with a night light too? It is ok to be scared, God will save you.
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#170 Dec 12 2011 at 6:41 AM Rating: Good
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Kavekk wrote:
Nadenu wrote:
Debalic wrote:
Nadenu wrote:
Debalic wrote:
Kavekk wrote:

JD isn't even whisky, it's a bourbon.

Bourbon is still a kind of whiskey, as is scotch.

Oh, I know. Just stating that true bourbon is made in KY, and the rest of that crap can be made anywhere.

I know you know, I was telling Kavekk.

Yeah, I realized that a bit later. I was only on my first cup of coffee, I can't be held responsible.


I'm insulting bourbon in general and JD in particular by saying they aren't actually whisky. It's kind of weird Nadenu's calling me out on this while doing exactly the same thing in saying that bourbon made in Kentucky isn't.

But don't let that stop you doing... whatever it is you're doing. Honestly, it's kind of cute.

I'm saying it's all crap. Bourbon, whisky, scotch, all of it. sh*t.
#171 Dec 12 2011 at 9:47 AM Rating: Good
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Debalic wrote:
No, you're just covering. It's kinda cute; have you been studying gbaji?


Weak.

You can't hear me, but I'm doing my best Charlie Sheen impression over here. It's not very good, but then I'm not on a dangerous cocktail of illegal drugs, more's the pity/
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#172varusword75, Posted: Dec 12 2011 at 12:00 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) r2d2,
#173 Dec 12 2011 at 3:10 PM Rating: Good
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varusword75 wrote:
r2d2,

Quote:
Do you honestly believe that Islamist Jihadists are anymore violent then say the IRA, or the Chechnyan Rebels


That you can even ask this illustrates how thoroughly you've been brainwashed.



Pot kettle, kettle pot. I imagine you had no idea there was such a thing as an Islamic Jihadist unti the Bush WH completely blew the whole ordeal out of proportion. I wonder how many times the bush white house used the phrase Islamic Terrorism in its 8 year stretch of stoking the flames of fear in the US. Its ok Ill take your pot shot in stride. At least I can get to sleep at night without checking under my bed for the scary bearded man hiding there.

Edited, Dec 12th 2011 4:11pm by rdmcandie
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#174 Dec 12 2011 at 6:02 PM Rating: Default
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rdmcandie wrote:

But you are calling me detached from reality because I live without fear of nuclear war.

No; I say you are detached because you (for some strange reason) think that it could never happen in our lifetime. I don't think it has much to do with fear but more to do with swallowing a handful of lies and using them as a sedative.. quite an addictive sedative is denial.

Quote:
I imagine you had no idea there was such a thing as an Islamic Jihadist unti the Bush WH completely blew the whole ordeal out of proportion.

Why don't you tell that to the Muslim families who lost loved ones in the Islamic Jihad that was called for in 1967 by Gamal Abd El Nasser?
Please; turn off the damned TV and vomit up all of the lies that you have glutted yourself with.


Edited, Dec 12th 2011 7:08pm by Kelvyquayo
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#175 Dec 12 2011 at 6:11 PM Rating: Decent
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No; I say you are detached because you (for some strange reason) think that it could never happen in our lifetime.


No I don't think it will happen because it is not a realistically beneficial to do so. Whomever uses a nuke will be scorned by the majority of countries on this planet. Even if they are suspected of the act. It is not beneficial for a nation to have a nuclear attack launched by themselves or for themselves. Which is why it won't happen.

It is suicide to do so. Every nation in the world will punish you. Could it happen, of course it could happen, we do have the means to make it happen. Will it happen probably not. Id be more worried of a chemical or biological attack long before Id even consider a nuclear attack relevant.

Your lack of understanding of modern warfare and political reasoning astounds me. The only reason Iran wants nukes is because Israel has them. Every country should be able to posses Nuclear Technology if they happen to make a bomb then they happen to make a bomb...so what. There will not be a nuclear strike in our life time, likely ever.
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#176 Dec 12 2011 at 6:49 PM Rating: Default
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No I don't think it will happen because it is not a realistically beneficial to do so. Whomever uses a nuke will be scorned by the majority of countries on this planet. Even if they are suspected of the act. It is not beneficial for a nation to have a nuclear attack launched by themselves or for themselves. Which is why it won't happen.


Umm, you do realize that there are organizations that aren't "countries" and that could care less about their reputations.. and that there are many factions that operate sole out of total hatred toward other factions.. You do realize that, right? No?
But I do applaud you proper usage of "whom".Smiley: tongue
And that is why it could actually happen.

I actually think a nuclear event is more likely than a chemical or biological attack; do you know how easy it would be to smuggle a few grams of uranium? You probably do not want to know.

Quote:
Every country should be able to posses Nuclear Technology


Smiley: lol you sound like some kind of global nuclear communist. Why don't we just supply all of the un-contacted tribes of Africa, South America, and India with a bunch of M16s to help them defend themselves?


Edited, Dec 12th 2011 7:52pm by Kelvyquayo
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#177 Dec 13 2011 at 4:01 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:

Umm, you do realize that there are organizations that aren't "countries" and that could care less about their reputations.. and that there are many factions that operate sole out of total hatred toward other factions.. You do realize that, right? No?
But I do applaud you proper usage of "whom".Smiley: tongue
And that is why it could actually happen.

I actually think a nuclear event is more likely than a chemical or biological attack; do you know how easy it would be to smuggle a few grams of uranium? You probably do not want to know.


Again these tiffs have been going on for years, and the possibility nukes and/or nuclear material have switched hands on the black market has been a reality since the mid to late 50's. Looking more specifically at our current time the collapse of the soviet union has almost guaranteed that there are free floating nukes, I would be surprised if Russia, or even the US could account for all of their cold war era nuclear weapons (bio and chem along with them.)

The fact is these factions have been fighting with each other for ever, and if using nuclear weapons as a solution was indeed a possible outcome it would have happened. Especially in places like Chechnya and North Ireland where conflict of territory, and religious influence has been raging for decades (in some cases over a century).

Again you are living in a deranged form of Paranoia. Nuclear materials have been available to these rouge groups for decades and not a single event has occurred where nuclear arms were involved.

Quote:

Smiley: lol you sound like some kind of global nuclear communist. Why don't we just supply all of the un-contacted tribes of Africa, South America, and India with a bunch of M16s to help them defend themselves?


You do know that Nuclear technology provides more than just weapons correct? Actually nvm you probably don't since that was the first conclusion you jumped too.


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#178 Dec 13 2011 at 4:18 PM Rating: Good
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Nadenu wrote:
I'm saying it's all crap. Bourbon, whisky, scotch, all of it. sh*t.


*jaw drop*

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#179 Dec 13 2011 at 6:19 PM Rating: Decent
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Nadenu wrote:
I'm saying it's all crap. Bourbon, whisky, scotch, all of it. sh*t.

Oh...my.

I don't think I want to know you. Smiley: frown
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#180 Dec 13 2011 at 8:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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Debalic wrote:
Nadenu wrote:
I'm saying it's all crap. Bourbon, whisky, scotch, all of it. sh*t.

Oh...my.

I don't think I want to know you. Smiley: frown

Vodka, baby. Smiley: boozing
#181 Dec 13 2011 at 8:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Oh, right. Vodka's fine, with something else. Milk and kahlua, orange juice, V8, whatever.
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#182 Dec 13 2011 at 8:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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Nadenu wrote:
Debalic wrote:
Nadenu wrote:
I'm saying it's all crap. Bourbon, whisky, scotch, all of it. sh*t.

Oh...my.

I don't think I want to know you. Smiley: frown

Vodka, baby. Smiley: boozing


I don't trust potatoes...
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#183 Dec 13 2011 at 9:40 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
The fact is these factions have been fighting with each other for ever, and if using nuclear weapons as a solution was indeed a possible outcome it would have happened.


I really almost agree with you; but what you seem to be missing is that time has not stopped and neither has the mindless hatred. You are saying, "well, if they haven't done it yet then it will never happen". You cannot present that as a logical fact; it is your opinion.
Why do I think that it hasn't happened yet? ..because the rest of the equation aside [not including the fissile material] cost a lot of money and takes some engineering skill to work with; skills and money: something that I don't think a bunch of underground fighter have in great abundance..
But the facts are: Countries like North Korea, Iran, and Pakistan are growing in both their development of these sciences but also in their destabilization on the world stage (in one form or another) all leading to an inevitable conclusion.. that the more time goes by, the greater the chances of a nuclear event.


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#184 Dec 13 2011 at 10:42 PM Rating: Decent
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no what i am saying is there have been rouge nuclear missiles around for the better part of half a decade, and that even amidst your pessimistic view on human society no Nuclear Attack has taken place.

Also the more time goes by the less likely a nuclear event will occur. I don't think you really grasp how redundant a nation or faction with a nuclear weapon is these days in terms of clout worldwide.

This isn't 1960, Nuclear weapons are an ineffective weapon offensively and only deter foes from attacking you.

If a nuclear strike occurs one or more nations will respond in kind. It is inevitable, and is why nukes are a useless offensive tool. If they were so bad the world would have stopped Korea from getting them, or China, or Israel.

Stop living in a paranoia of a problem that doesn't actually exist.
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#185 Dec 13 2011 at 11:28 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
Nuclear weapons are an ineffective weapon offensively and only deter foes from attacking you.


I understand your point; but you are totally wrong. Nukes are ineffective offensively? What?
Ok OK.. listen. Underground fighting organizations are HIDDEN so that they CANNOT be found (I do not say "terrorists" because you would probably start foaming at the mouth with THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS TERRORISTS, YOUR PARANOID!!!11ZOMG) and IF these people cannot be found there is no one to retaliate against... Do you understand the concept that borders on countries are as irrelevant in this modern age as political parties?

But; seriously. I hope you're right.

..and for the record I also think that the panic mongering of the Bush administrations were indeed completely hyped and engineered to create an atmosphere of terror in order to continue to grease wheels of the War Machine.. I have no argument for you there.
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#186 Dec 14 2011 at 6:06 AM Rating: Decent
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Nadenu wrote:
Debalic wrote:
Nadenu wrote:
I'm saying it's all crap. Bourbon, whisky, scotch, all of it. sh*t.

Oh...my.

I don't think I want to know you. Smiley: frown

Vodka, baby. Smiley: boozing


Yeah, it's so delicious that everyone in the distilling process tries as hard as possible to make it taste of nothing.
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#187 Dec 14 2011 at 9:13 AM Rating: Excellent
By definition, in the USA, vodka is supposed to taste like nothing. Just sayin'.

No, really; look it up.
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#188 Dec 14 2011 at 10:40 AM Rating: Good
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Kavekk wrote:
Nadenu wrote:
Debalic wrote:
Nadenu wrote:
I'm saying it's all crap. Bourbon, whisky, scotch, all of it. sh*t.

Oh...my.

I don't think I want to know you. Smiley: frown

Vodka, baby. Smiley: boozing


Yeah, it's so delicious that everyone in the distilling process tries as hard as possible to make it taste of nothing.


Preach on, brother. Smiley: nod

If someone tells you that they like the taste of vodka, you've got yourself a pretty good gauge of their capacity for self-delusion.

Edited, Dec 14th 2011 11:40am by Eske
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#189 Dec 14 2011 at 10:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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I had some very high quality Polish vodka once. I was able to drink it neat because it tasted quite a lot like cold water. I realized how wrong I was on the second glass.
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#190 Dec 14 2011 at 11:03 AM Rating: Excellent
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Eske Esquire wrote:
Kavekk wrote:
Nadenu wrote:
Debalic wrote:
Nadenu wrote:
I'm saying it's all crap. Bourbon, whisky, scotch, all of it. sh*t.

Oh...my.

I don't think I want to know you. Smiley: frown

Vodka, baby. Smiley: boozing


Yeah, it's so delicious that everyone in the distilling process tries as hard as possible to make it taste of nothing.


Preach on, brother. Smiley: nod

If someone tells you that they like the taste of vodka, you've got yourself a pretty good gauge of their capacity for self-delusion.

Edited, Dec 14th 2011 11:40am by Eske

Apparently you have never had Whipped Cream Flavored vodka.

Which is awesome in o.j.
#191 Dec 14 2011 at 11:09 AM Rating: Good
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Nadenu wrote:
Eske Esquire wrote:
Kavekk wrote:
Nadenu wrote:
Debalic wrote:
Nadenu wrote:
I'm saying it's all crap. Bourbon, whisky, scotch, all of it. sh*t.

Oh...my.

I don't think I want to know you. Smiley: frown

Vodka, baby. Smiley: boozing


Yeah, it's so delicious that everyone in the distilling process tries as hard as possible to make it taste of nothing.


Preach on, brother. Smiley: nod

If someone tells you that they like the taste of vodka, you've got yourself a pretty good gauge of their capacity for self-delusion.

Edited, Dec 14th 2011 11:40am by Eske

Apparently you have never had Whipped Cream Flavored vodka.

Which is awesome in o.j.


I'm okay with vodka in mixes, where all that remains is a slight alcoholic bite/burn, and none of the hydrogen peroxide taste.

Flavored vodkas...no thanks. Granted, I've only had a few, but with the ones I've had, the taste of the flavor clashes with/gets overruled by the harsh taste of the vodka. They don't seem to blend well. Raspberry vodka is all kinds of nasty. Haven't had whipped cream, but my inclination is to be wary of it.
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#192 Dec 14 2011 at 11:11 AM Rating: Good
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catwho wrote:
I had some very high quality Polish vodka once. I was able to drink it neat because it tasted quite a lot like cold water. I realized how wrong I was on the second glass.


Give me a Glenlivet 12 year neat and I'm a happy camper. I especially love the holidays because my uncle is single in his 60's and has way too much money for his own good so he brings a bottle of 18 year over pretttttty much every chance he can. Free expensive bottle of booze yay!

As for the vodka talk, after my run in with vodka freshman year of college where I have no recollection of my friends driving down the interstate at 80 mph with my head out the window passed out, or the hour it took them to get me to go 100 feet from my car to my dorm room, I've never really drank it since.
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#193 Dec 17 2011 at 6:56 AM Rating: Decent
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I guess I should remember to come to the asylum every now and then for my news. This explains why one of my professors suggested a hardware security embedded system or something as a senior design project.
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#194 Dec 17 2011 at 7:59 AM Rating: Decent
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Do you understand the concept that borders on countries are as irrelevant in this modern age as political parties?


Yeah, Bashar al-Assad is laughing at this while he plays soccer with Muammar Gaddafi's skull.

Borders have never mattered more. The idea that there's some magical new paradigm to "modern" geo-politics is a calculated lie. Everything's different! The rules must not apply. Not exactly a new idea, is it?

That aside, here are two important things to consider when thinking about this issue:

1. Iran poses no threat to the US. None. Less than Canada does.
2. No one cares about the lost drone.

There are interesting things going on in Iran for the region. This isn't one of them. This is the fear porn story of the week for the hawkish suckers. Khamenei's recent actions internally have the potential for long term changes, but @#%^ it, he's not shooting video with a giant model airplane, so who cares.
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#195 Dec 19 2011 at 3:37 PM Rating: Default
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I think the most relevant thing in regard to Iran is going to come from Israel.. especially now that Iraqi airspace between Israel and Iran is supposedly cleared of American presence..
I would assume this is all carefully orchestrated rather than just random incidents of opportunity..

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/dec/14/us-will-leave-iraqi-airspace-clear-for-strategic-i/

..but I am also reading that Israel has no intention of keeping us in the loop about what they are doing involving Iran.
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#196 Dec 20 2011 at 9:38 AM Rating: Good
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why would they its not like they have actually been an ally of any real use anyway. sh*t Saudi Arabia has been a better ally then Israel.
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