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#1 Dec 05 2011 at 7:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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So, things in the middle east just got even more interesting. Apperently we have now confirmed that Iran is in posession of the wreckage of one of our top of the line super duper classified RQ-170 sentinel drones, or a reasonable fascimile therof. Whether they shot it down, or it just crashed on its own is beside the point, but basically they are now in posession of working samples of our latest miniature jet engine technology, our latest stealth materials and design technology, and likely our latest control hardware, though hopefully that at least they were smart enough to put some sort of self destruct on. the first two are bad enough as it is. This is essentially the gary powers thing all over again, except with less pilots involved, and Iran is small enough we could bl;ow it up and no one would really care. I'm sure the drone is on its way to china by now, but what we have here is a pretext if they want one. it will be interesting to see how the next 2 weeks play out in regards to Iran.



http://www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?id=248269
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_RQ-170_Sentinel

'US army: Iran is in possession of our spy drone'
By JPOST.COM STAFF AND REUTERS
12/06/2011 02:23

American army officials concerned that Tehran has US's top-secret unmanned aircraft after it was lost during mission in Afghanistan, Fox News reports; Iranian Revolutionary Guard preparing strike attack, report says.

Iran seems to be in possession of the same RQ-170 drone that the Iranian military said it shot down Sunday, Fox News reported Monday according to American military sources.

US officials failed to say whether or not Iranians shot the unmanned spy plane down, as per Iranian reports.

Iran on Sunday said that its military had downed the drone in an eastern province. Shortly after those Iranian reports, a NATO official said that the drone may have been one that went missing during a mission in Afghanistan the week before.

The Iranian and US reports differ over whether Iran had managed to take down the top-secret spy aircraft, and in what condition the Iranian army found that grounded jet.

The incident comes at a time when Tehran is trying to contain foreign outrage at the storming of the British embassy on Tuesday, after London announced sanctions on Iran's central bank in connection with Iran's nuclear enrichment program.

Iran has announced several times in the past that it shot down US, Israeli or British drones, in incidents that did not provoke high-profile responses.

Also on Monday, British newspaper the Telegraph reported that the Revolutionary Guard was raising its preparedness for war fearing a strike after mounting international pressure, and a number of mysterious explosions that rocked different cities in the country.

Western intelligence officials said that Iran was deploying artillery and guards to key defensive points, as well as arranging "long-range missiles" and "high explosives" fearing a potential attack, according to the Telegraph.
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#2 Dec 05 2011 at 9:31 PM Rating: Good
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That's not punny.
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#3 Dec 05 2011 at 9:39 PM Rating: Good
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Kaolian wrote:
Iran is small enough we could bl;ow it up and no one would really care.
Could say the same about a lot of countries, but no one listens to me when I say we should just coat them in Willy Pete and deal with the consequences later.
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#4 Dec 05 2011 at 10:40 PM Rating: Good
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but what we have here is a pretext if they want one

A pretext for what?
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#5 Dec 06 2011 at 1:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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Er, what else would you need a pretext for, sending them a birthday card? A war. "give us our toy back, you stole it" "no" "invade". It's definitly too late to do any good in terms of keeping the cat in the bag regarding that hardware. I'm certain the chinese already have half of it by now. hell, the russians probably bought the other half on principal, not that they really need it.

The part that scares me here is there is a definite rationality for "now". Iran doesn't have nukes "yet". All their nominal islamic allies are either pissed at them, keeping their distance because they are kind of batsh*t insane, or have their own troubles. There is the core of a popular uprising that could be leveraged, Israel is ready to go in now, and more importantly of all, what country switches leaders in the middle of a new war? Especially if Iran shoots first. It will be a rogue missile launch or something along those lines. Maybe a border skirmish. I don't know. but it will be something. And truth be told, I don't really think there will be too much protest on the republican side either. Alot of the war hawks see Iran as the last big problem to solve in the middle east.

I could very well be wrong. But it wouldn't suprise me in the least if we have had U.S. airstrikes in Iran by February.
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#6 Dec 06 2011 at 1:25 AM Rating: Excellent
I'd rather we didn't.
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#7 Dec 06 2011 at 1:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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Nothing sparks the economy like another war, gogo 1940's theory of economics!
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#8 Dec 06 2011 at 3:24 AM Rating: Good
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but basically they are now in posession of working samples of our latest miniature jet engine technology, our latest stealth materials and design technology, and likely our latest control hardware, though hopefully that at least they were smart enough to put some sort of self destruct on


If it isn't a heap of twisted metal wreckage, sure. The vehicle's state is unknown. Iran might not even have it.

Edited, Dec 6th 2011 9:25am by Kavekk
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#9 Dec 06 2011 at 4:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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And Iran... Iran's so far away.
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#10 Dec 06 2011 at 4:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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Edited, Dec 6th 2011 6:53am by Uglysasquatch
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#11 Dec 06 2011 at 4:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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Unmanned Arial Vehicle. 100 million dollars
18 Year old with a joystick. 40K/year
Forgetting the 100 dollar self destruct system. Priceless.

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#12 Dec 06 2011 at 7:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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ArexLovesPie wrote:
Nothing sparks the economy like another war, gogo 1940's theory of economics!
It's worked the last two times.

... wait.
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#13 Dec 06 2011 at 8:07 AM Rating: Good
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Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
Er, what else would you need a pretext for, sending them a birthday card? A war.

Maybe I'm confused about who "they" is supposed to be. The US isn't going to go to war over this. Iran isn't going to go to war over this.

Uglysasquatch wrote:
If you don't want people to see your toys then don't leave the house with them.

Our Republican senator said about the same thing last night. When you deploy these tools, there's a chance you'll lose one. You can either never use them or accept the risk that you might lose it.

The drone was fitted with self-destruction mechanisms for various scenarios but, since we lost contact with it, we have no way of knowing what condition it's in. For example, it has a mechanism to destruct in event of a crash but we don't know how it "landed" and whether it was in a way to trigger that mechanism.
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#14 Dec 06 2011 at 10:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
ArexLovesPie wrote:
Nothing sparks the economy like another war, gogo 1940's theory of economics!
It's worked the last two times.

... wait.


My American History teacher my sophomore of High School used to drone on about how war was good for the economy, he also was a complete Bush fanboy and after his election stated that Bush is on his way to be one of the top five presidents. Public schooling at it's finest.

Jophiel wrote:
Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
Er, what else would you need a pretext for, sending them a birthday card? A war.

Maybe I'm confused about who "they" is supposed to be. The US isn't going to go to war over this. Iran isn't going to go to war over this.

Uglysasquatch wrote:
If you don't want people to see your toys then don't leave the house with them.

Our Republican senator said about the same thing last night. When you deploy these tools, there's a chance you'll lose one. You can either never use them or accept the risk that you might lose it.

The drone was fitted with self-destruction mechanisms for various scenarios but, since we lost contact with it, we have no way of knowing what condition it's in. For example, it has a mechanism to destruct in event of a crash but we don't know how it "landed" and whether it was in a way to trigger that mechanism.


I think it's pretty safe to say that no matter what altitude it was at the thing came down like a ton of bricks and is probably in pretty rough shape. Yeah they can probably reverse engineer some sh*t but I highly doubt they're going to get the proverbial treasure trove of information out of it.


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#15 Dec 06 2011 at 10:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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Supposedly it's telling that Iran hasn't released any actual photos of their treasure, just stock pictures accompanying the government releases. Which could be taken to imply that the drone isn't exactly in trophy condition.

Also, the nickname "Beast of Kandahar" reminds me of this. Which doesn't inspire confidence.

Edited, Dec 6th 2011 10:07am by Jophiel
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#16 Dec 06 2011 at 10:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Also, the nickname "Beast of Kandahar" reminds me of this. Which doesn't inspire confidence.

Edited, Dec 6th 2011 10:07am by Jophiel


I was thinking something along the lines of Arabic Furry sect.
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#17 Dec 06 2011 at 1:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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Given how pointless and expensive America's latest wars in the region have been, why would anyone want to start another one?

I know I'm a socialist lesbian pagan from Canadaland, and therefore prone to pacifism and not privy to the secrets of American logic, but in what way does it make sense to create even more lifelong generational enemies in that region of the world?

Edited, Dec 6th 2011 11:54am by Olorinus
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#18 Dec 06 2011 at 2:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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ArexLovesPie wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Also, the nickname "Beast of Kandahar" reminds me of this. Which doesn't inspire confidence.

I was thinking something along the lines of Arabic Furry sect.

And here I came up with Beast Rabban.
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#19 Dec 06 2011 at 4:50 PM Rating: Decent
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Given that the drone was reported to have lost contact with control, it likely went into a failsafe mode and landed, meaning there's a good chance this thing is not only intact, but operational. Setting them to blow themselves up if their link blips would probably get pretty expensive.

Are we going to go to war over it, I doubt it. But I'm willing to bet we already have people trying to intercept it on its way to China. Iran isn't advanced enough to reverse engineer the thing and China would be tripping over themselves to get their hands on it.

Remember that this technology isn't exactly cutting edge (it was confirmed to be in existence several years ago) so we probably already have better, if not operational, at least in development. Also, there's a good chance China already has info on this technology since they've been in our systems for awhile now, so if they do get this, it's only going to bump them ahead a few years tech wise.
#20 Dec 06 2011 at 5:48 PM Rating: Good
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Why are you so sure it is going to China?
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#21 Dec 06 2011 at 6:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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Raolan wrote:
Given that the drone was reported to have lost contact with control, it likely went into a failsafe mode and landed, meaning there's a good chance this thing is not only intact, but operational. Setting them to blow themselves up if their link blips would probably get pretty expensive.

(A) It just happily landed itself blind in the mountains of Iran because it couldn't handle a "blip"?
(B) Having your top secret drones park themselves on your enemy's lawn over a "blip" seems an even worse solution than having it explode.
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#22 Dec 06 2011 at 6:57 PM Rating: Decent
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I think Iran shot it down personally. I am skeptical that it just happened to "get lost". NATO was spying and they got caught with their hands in the cookie jar. It sucks that one of our toys is now being peeled apart by scientists and techs. Then they will have drones too, which we will promptly shoot down upon leaving <insert county here>'s airspace. Nothing to loose sleep over.


(by NATO and we I refer of course to the US, but the story I read was in regards to NATO so its in my mind).
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#23 Dec 06 2011 at 8:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
Raolan wrote:
Given that the drone was reported to have lost contact with control, it likely went into a failsafe mode and landed, meaning there's a good chance this thing is not only intact, but operational. Setting them to blow themselves up if their link blips would probably get pretty expensive.

(A) It just happily landed itself blind in the mountains of Iran because it couldn't handle a "blip"?
(B) Having your top secret drones park themselves on your enemy's lawn over a "blip" seems an even worse solution than having it explode.


We have UAVs that autonomously operate and land on aircraft carriers. Scanning the terrain and finding a less than horrible landing spot to ditch is not only reasonable, but likely. I doubt it would be ready to take off again after that landing, but I don't think it forgot how to fly as soon as it lost the link.

As far as blowing itself up, I'm sure conditions for self destruction exist. I just doubt that losing the link with it's controller, something that is probably very common since it's a satellite link, is a condition for that. The difference is that this thing got out of range before the controller could reconnect with it (assuming). At which point the thing could turn itself into a fireball telling whoever it's spying on exactly where it is without any guarantee that it's completely destroyed, or it can ditch somewhere until it can be recovered.


Quote:
Why are you so sure it is going to China?


What's Iran going to do with it? They can poke it with a stick until it does something, or give it to someone who can reverse engineer it.
#24 Dec 06 2011 at 9:48 PM Rating: Good
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Raolan wrote:
What's Iran going to do with it? They can poke it with a stick until it does something, or give it to someone who can reverse engineer it.

The gods must be crazy...
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#25 Dec 06 2011 at 11:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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Debalic wrote:
Raolan wrote:
What's Iran going to do with it? They can poke it with a stick until it does something, or give it to someone who can reverse engineer it.

The gods must be crazy...


I just had this awesome mental image of some dudes poking a drone with a stick and a car alarm going off and then it slowly fades into a slow motion mushroom cloud.
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#26 Dec 06 2011 at 11:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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rdmcandie wrote:
I think Iran shot it down personally. I am skeptical that it just happened to "get lost". NATO was spying and they got caught with their hands in the cookie jar.

No one argues that it was spying. The question is just what happened to it in the moments before it stopped spying and what condition it's in now.
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#27 Dec 06 2011 at 11:40 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
rdmcandie wrote:
I think Iran shot it down personally. I am skeptical that it just happened to "get lost". NATO was spying and they got caught with their hands in the cookie jar.

No one argues that it was spying. The question is just what happened to it in the moments before it stopped spying and what condition it's in now.


I'm still under the impression that it's pretty messed up. Considering the circumstance it would seem incredibly unlikely that it would miraculously find smooth ground to land after numerous bullets were allegedly shot at it.
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#28 Dec 07 2011 at 2:37 AM Rating: Excellent
rdmcandie wrote:
I am skeptical that it just happened to "get lost"
Maybe it got distracted by the butterflies.
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#29 Dec 07 2011 at 5:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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#30 Dec 07 2011 at 6:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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Friar Bijou wrote:
rdmcandie wrote:
I am skeptical that it just happened to "get lost"
Maybe it got distracted by the butterflies.



Number 5 is alive.
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#31 Dec 07 2011 at 8:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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Doubt whoever is ending up with it is going to respect it's pleas of "No disassemble!"
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#32 Dec 07 2011 at 8:11 AM Rating: Excellent
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#33varusword75, Posted: Dec 07 2011 at 9:24 AM, Rating: Unrated, (Expand Post) Does anyone seriously think big ear barry is going to do anything to his muslim bretheren in Iran? He sh*t on our allies in Egypt and now it's controlled by the radical muslims. You're insane if you think he's going to do anything about Iran.
#34 Dec 07 2011 at 9:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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I bet he totally sent that drone over Iran just so they could shoot it down and sell it to the Red Chinese! Smiley: tinfoilhat
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#35 Dec 07 2011 at 9:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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They needed the target practice.
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#36 Dec 07 2011 at 10:10 AM Rating: Decent
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varusword75 wrote:
Does anyone seriously think big ear barry is going to do anything to his muslim bretheren in Iran? He sh*t on our allies in Egypt and now it's controlled by the radical muslims. You're insane if you think he's going to do anything about Iran.

I think there's a good chance of us being directly involved in Iran within the next five years, so yeah.
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#38 Dec 07 2011 at 10:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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The Atlantic wrote:
So what went wrong? While Iran maintains that it shot down the plane using anti-aircraft weaponry, sources inside and outside the military explain to Reuters that most signs indicate a technical malfunction because of the way the RQ-170 is programmed. "The aircraft is flown remotely by pilots based in the United States, but is also programmed to autonomously fly back to the base it departed from if its data link with U.S.-based pilots is lost," a defense analyst who consults for Lockheed told the news agency. "The fact that the plane did not return to its base suggests a 'catastrophic' technical malfunction," another industry insider familiar with drone technology attested. Additionally, "several current and former defense officials" said shooting down the drone was unlikely because of the aircraft's anti-radar coating and ability to fly at high altitudes.


It sounds as though, when it hit ground in Iran, it hit the ground hard. If it was trying to safely land, it would have been trying to safely land at its Afghani airbase, not in some remote Iranian valley.
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#39 Dec 07 2011 at 10:32 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
The Atlantic wrote:
Additionally, "several current and former defense officials" said shooting down the drone was unlikely because of the aircraft's anti-radar coating and ability to fly at high altitudes.


Smiley: dubious

In Call of Duty, I swat those things out of the sky like gnats. How hard could they be to hit?

Edited, Dec 7th 2011 11:33am by Eske
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#40 Dec 07 2011 at 10:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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Until you took an arrow to the knee! AMIRITE?

Am I cool now?
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#41 Dec 07 2011 at 11:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Until you took an arrow to the knee! AMIRITE?

Am I cool now?


Oh my god! That is, like, so two days ago. Smiley: rolleyes

Edited, Dec 7th 2011 12:03pm by Eske
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Smiley: cry.
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#43varusword75, Posted: Dec 07 2011 at 11:21 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Joph,
#44 Dec 07 2011 at 11:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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Gumbo Galahad wrote:
Unless, of course, it landed exactly were it was supposed to.
That requires, of course, an astounding amount of stupid.
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#45 Dec 07 2011 at 11:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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varusword75 wrote:
Unless, of course, it landed exactly were it was supposed to.

Thanks for continuing to toe the conservative conspiracy line. Gbaji will be along shortly to say "Not that Varus is right, but he's totally right..."
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#46 Dec 07 2011 at 11:28 AM Rating: Good
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varusword75 wrote:
Joph,

Quote:
It sounds as though, when it hit ground in Iran, it hit the ground hard. If it was trying to safely land, it would have been trying to safely land at its Afghani airbase, not in some remote Iranian valley.


Unless, of course, it crashlanded exactly were it was supposed to.
Smiley: banghead

ftfy btw.



Edited, Dec 7th 2011 6:31pm by Elinda
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#47 Dec 07 2011 at 11:31 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Gumbo Galahad wrote:
Unless, of course, it landed exactly were it was supposed to.
That requires, of course, an astounding amount of stupid.
I bet enough stupid could be mined right here in =4.
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#48varusword75, Posted: Dec 07 2011 at 11:34 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Joph,
#49 Dec 07 2011 at 11:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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I find it unbelievable that one of the most sophisticated pieces of technoloy
Yes, the rich mine of radioactive stupidium in that empty cavern you call a receding hairline tells you so.
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#50 Dec 07 2011 at 11:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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varusword75 wrote:
Joph,

Quote:
It sounds as though, when it hit ground in Iran, it hit the ground hard. If it was trying to safely land, it would have been trying to safely land at its Afghani airbase, not in some remote Iranian valley.


Unless, of course, it landed exactly were it was supposed to.


Varus.

I know you're dumb as @#%^, but even this is almost too stupid to hear from you.
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#51 Dec 07 2011 at 11:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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Kaolian wrote:
Er, what else would you need a pretext for, sending them a birthday card? A war. "give us our toy back, you stole it" "no" "invade". It's definitly too late to do any good in terms of keeping the cat in the bag regarding that hardware. I'm certain the chinese already have half of it by now. hell, the russians probably bought the other half on principal, not that they really need it.


Not really pretext unless you happen to really want to see a war with Iran. There is no way in which the US can actually be the "innocent" party in this. If Iran shot it down, then that implies that it was being flown through Iranian airspace without permission, and hence could actually be seen as an act of aggression by the USA. Now if it disappeared off the back of a truck in the continental US and suddenly ended up in Iranian hands, then there'd be some pretext.

Varus wrote:
Joph,

I know you hate and despise the military and think all the servicemen are incompetent idiots but I find it unbelievable that one of the most sophisticated pieces of technoloy just happened to crash and be recovered by iranians. More likely it big ear barry is doing everything he can to enable our enemies before he gets booted out of office. Muslims will weep when big ear barry loses next year.


I had something to say, but my mind has been blown by the sheer ignorance and stupidity of that statement.
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