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Waiting until marriageFollow

#1 Nov 29 2011 at 3:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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TLC is releasing a new special called "Virgin Diaries" that apparently follows virgins waiting for their "first time." The UK version of it in 2006 focused on teens and bombed; this one will follow "adult virgins," apparently. The only reason I'm remotely interested is because one of my best friends is 26, has been dating a girl (27) for two years, and they're both virgins... and if it becomes a show, god **** do I want them on it!

But that brings up the question of "waiting." Being good friends, we've discussed the topic a few times. The first thing he always brings up is his religion: he thinks it's the Christian thing to do to wait. But going past that, he's also mentioned a few other things. "I don't know what I'm missing, so it's not all that hard to wait," is one of them. Another was "I don't have any experience, and neither does she, so going very slow is just more comfortable."

Then, knowing him as a friend, I have some other explanations that he never mentions.
1. Family interference: He's a "Momma's Boy" who does almost anything his mother says. And she has never approved of any girl he's dated, so the relationships all ended pretty quick up until now. Now his girlfriend is almost a carbon copy of his mother (ugh, analyze that, psychologists), and also a virgin, so she's calling the shots on waiting.
2. Personality. My friend, bless his heart, is incredibly awkward around girls. He doesn't know how to act around girls, and thus is very limited in his interaction with them. He's only had two other girlfriends so far, both starting online and living long distance.
3. Lack of opportunity: see the aforementioned. Few girlfriends, few opportunities, doesn't go out much. The one girl we thought might rob him of his innocence broke up with him after meeting his mother for the first time and being completely chewed out and demeaned.


Still, I do envy him at times; a relationship without *** (especially early on) lets a true friendship develop. *** also can complicate things; pregnancy scares, diseases, awkwardness in general. And then there's a jealousy issue: what has your partner done before? Are they more experienced? Too experienced? I personally find the pros outweigh the cons, but at times I wish I had waited until later to start being sexual. Anyone know people in similar situations who would be great for this show? Or want to chime in on their views on "waiting?"

Edit: Holy moley, the kiss in the preview is painful to watch!



Edited, Nov 29th 2011 4:32pm by LockeColeMA
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#2 Nov 29 2011 at 3:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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#3 Nov 29 2011 at 3:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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If there was any reason why I didn't wait until I got married it would be because I didn't want my "You may kiss the bride" moment to be like the one in the video.
#4 Nov 29 2011 at 3:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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I can give you my perspective from still being a virgin at 36. I too was also incredibly shy and awkward around girls and always afraid of being told if I asked somebody out so I never bothered. As I got older, I could try and justify it as religious, but more truthfully I was just scared. I had gotten comfortable in my situation and didn't want to change it. Like your friend said, you don't know what you are missing. If jerking it is the best you know, then you can just be happy with that, having no basis of comparison.

And the jealousy factor is a big thing in my opinion. I would not want to be with somebody with a large history (or any history to be honest). Call it bitterness, but if I wasn't good enough when I was younger (theoretically since no girl said no since I never asked), why should I settle for you now after you found out those other guys weren't good matches outside of the bedroom.

I felt 40-year old Virgin was a fairly honest representation of guys like me. I could really understand Steve Carell's character, because I saw myself in there. I did have a girl offer me casual *** once, but she also felt a guy couldn't possibly be a friend without also hopping in bed with her. I guess I was trying to be noble, showing her it wasn't true, which was a partial reason. The other part was I am kinda embarassed by my lack of experience and knowledge, which has only grown as I have gotten older.
#5 Nov 29 2011 at 4:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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LockeColeMA wrote:
The first thing he always brings up is his religion: he thinks it's the Christian thing to do to wait.


Christian for basically my whole life, didn't wait, don't regret it. Things that made sense 2,000 years ago don't make sense these days and stuff. That and the Mrs. made a promise to her grandfather she'd finish college before she got married, and that'd be too much waiting. We were friends before we started dating, so I suppose there was a relationship in there already. I don't think I even talked about her 'history' even came up until well into the relationship.

As for other people, if they want to wait that's awesome, more power too them. Yeah, *** can complicate relationships, kids even more so. Better to wait and miss out than get in over your head I suppose.

Do I know anyone else like this? One couple. The guy went on to become a pastor, the gal was a pastor's daughter. They waited all through high-school and college. Kudos to them I suppose, but I'm not sure that would have been the lifestyle for me.


Edited, Nov 29th 2011 2:08pm by someproteinguy

Edited, Nov 29th 2011 2:09pm by someproteinguy
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#6 Nov 29 2011 at 4:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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26 and still waiting to get my freak on. Probably will never due to my philosophy of people with very bad genes should not reproduce. If they want a kid, adopt. Otherwise keep it in your pants or use birth control heavily.

It should be noted that Murphy* loves to mess with me. My luck usually goes along the lines of if I get in bed with a gal she will more than likely end up preggers, regardless the prevention used.

*I personified Murphy's Law due to how often the law ends up messing with me.


Concerning the show though, I probably won't watch it. I wonder if they are virgins though or just actors...
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#7 Nov 29 2011 at 4:24 PM Rating: Good
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In before Alma joke.
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#8 Nov 29 2011 at 4:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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Symbolism is worthless. Case in point, I waited until our honeymoon to suddenly and unannounced ... edly ... to put it in my wife's **** and she certainly didn't appreciate it in the least.
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#9 Nov 29 2011 at 4:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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There's one couple that I know that waited and after a heart to heart with her after a few years of marriage, she realized that she tied herself down and regrets her decision. She now believes that a marriage does have a sexual level and that for a couple to not explore that level before getting married means that couple didn't really explore every issue before getting married. It's akin to any other issue or level that a couple needs to explore before deciding on marriage.

Waiting until getting married was goes back to the idea that who a child's father is cannot be questioned because the father married a virgin (that's the only guy she ever had *** with so he's got to be the father). DNA testing has made that a moot point.

I can the jealousy part of why would someone do all these things with someone else and not wait for me mindset, but if she was that wonderful, you should have sacked up and gotten some courage and asked her out. Most modern females are not going to wait around for the guy to hem and haw over whether he can get the courage up to ask her out. A guy who is fumbling around means to me that he doesn't truly think that he's the right guy that I should be with.
#10 Nov 29 2011 at 4:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Symbolism is worthless. Case in point, I waited until our honeymoon to suddenly and unannounced ... edly ... to put it in my wife's **** and she certainly didn't appreciate it in the least.


Smiley: lol
#11 Nov 29 2011 at 4:31 PM Rating: Good
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LockeColeMA wrote:
Now his girlfriend is almost a carbon copy of his mother (ugh, analyze that, psychologists)
If I recall correctly it's fairly normal to be attracted to someone with a similar personality as your parent of the opposite ***. Especially for the first few people you fall in love with.
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#12 Nov 29 2011 at 4:34 PM Rating: Decent
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someproteinguy wrote:
Christian for basically my whole life, didn't wait, don't regret it. Things that made sense 2,000 years ago don't make sense these days and stuff.

I certainly did not wait either; nor do I really regret it and I am happily married; but in my growth as a Christian I can honestly say that I disagree with your last statement there.. but that is a argument for another forum hehe. I would have agreed with you a very short time ago.

Here is how I view the standard modern relationship in 12 Steps:

Step 1) Couple meets and is physically attracted to one another.
Step 2) Physical attraction will overshadow psychological attraction.
Step 3) Physical attraction leads to sexual relations.
Step 4) Sexual relation overshadows psychological attraction.
Step 5) Sexual relationship continues.
Step 6) Sexual attraction dwindles causing couple to explore psychological attraction.
Step 7) Psychological attraction is revealed to be non-existent or superficial.
Step 8) Couple begins to overcompensate with more ***.
Step 9) Relationship becomes totally based on sexual expectations.
Step 10)By this time the amount of time and emotion invested makes couple reluctant to admit the mistake.
Step 11)The relationship drags on in futility and stress.
Step 12)If you take these and multiply them be the amount of times that a person chooses to deny the truth of this in future relationships you get a cornucopia of neurotic sexual and emotion behaviors.. This leads to all of the classic issues that happen in relationships when people use sexual and emotional blackmail to dominate one another in a sorrowful attempt to simultaneously protect themselves and to continue to feed their denial.

Along the way you all all of the pain, diseases, unwanted children, broken friendships, estranged families.. ad perpetuum..


Do I think that a person can actually think their way out of this behavior once they have jumped down this slippery slope? Not really..

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#13 Nov 29 2011 at 4:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm rating Aethien up, not because of his post, but because of his avi. ******* awesome shoes (and ***).
#14 Nov 29 2011 at 4:55 PM Rating: Default
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Bardalicious wrote:
In before Alma joke.



I like how people admit to being virgins and support relationships starting out with little to no *** and yet you think it's appropriate to ridicule me for an assumption that is upheld by your very own peers... Smiley: lol
#15 Nov 29 2011 at 4:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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Kelvyquayo wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
Christian for basically my whole life, didn't wait, don't regret it. Things that made sense 2,000 years ago don't make sense these days and stuff.

I certainly did not wait either; nor do I really regret it and I am happily married; but in my growth as a Christian I can honestly say that I disagree with your last statement there.. but that is a argument for another forum hehe. I would have agreed with you a very short time ago.

Here is how I view the standard modern relationship in 12 Steps:

Step 1) Couple meets and is physically attracted to one another.
Step 2) Physical attraction will overshadow psychological attraction.
Step 3) Physical attraction leads to sexual relations.
Step 4) Sexual relation overshadows psychological attraction.
Step 5) Sexual relationship continues.
Step 6) Sexual attraction dwindles causing couple to explore psychological attraction.
Step 7) Psychological attraction is revealed to be non-existent or superficial.
Step 8) Couple begins to overcompensate with more ***.
Step 9) Relationship becomes totally based on sexual expectations.
Step 10)By this time the amount of time and emotion invested makes couple reluctant to admit the mistake.
Step 11)The relationship drags on in futility and stress.
Step 12)If you take these and multiply them be the amount of times that a person chooses to deny the truth of this in future relationships you get a cornucopia of neurotic sexual and emotion behaviors.. This leads to all of the classic issues that happen in relationships when people use sexual and emotional blackmail to dominate one another in a sorrowful attempt to simultaneously protect themselves and to continue to feed their denial.

Along the way you all all of the pain, diseases, unwanted children, broken friendships, estranged families.. ad perpetuum..


Do I think that a person can actually think their way out of this behavior once they have jumped down this slippery slope? Not really..



This is like a guide book to my ex fiance and myself. I got smart and got the **** out of that downward spiral in a quick hurry when the crazy switch flipped into full gear.

I didn't wait for marriage and I'm glad I didn't. From my perspective I was the lucky one out of my group of friends who wasn't totally and utterly socially inept so relationships with women I've found have always come easy. I've had too many friends that have waited and then fallen in love with the first girl who was willing to sleep with them. They're stuck in relationships because they're infatuated, and it's so unhealthy and one sided to the favor of their girlfriends or wives and it sickens me.

*** is natural and healthy, I'm a christian and I'm not wired to wait. My body tells me to plant my seed because in the end, we're all human and we're all animals.
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#16 Nov 29 2011 at 4:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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Almalieque wrote:
Bardalicious wrote:
In before Alma joke.
I like how people admit to being virgins and support relationships starting out with little to no *** and yet you think it's appropriate to ridicule me for an assumption that is upheld by your very own peers... Smiley: lol
In after Alma joke.
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#17 Nov 29 2011 at 5:03 PM Rating: Default
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ArexLovesPie wrote:
I'm a christian and I'm not wired to wait. My body tells me to plant my seed because in the end, we're all human and we're all animals.


Then you are apostate. I'm not judging; I'm just stating a fact.
Would you justify rape and eating your young because animals do it?
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#18 Nov 29 2011 at 5:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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Kelvyquayo wrote:
ArexLovesPie wrote:
I'm a christian and I'm not wired to wait. My body tells me to plant my seed because in the end, we're all human and we're all animals.


Then you are apostate. I'm not judging; I'm just stating a fact.
Would you justify rape and eating your young because animals do it?


My relationship with god isn't struck by the views of someone else, it's forged by my own beliefs and my relationship with god. Not judging, just stating a fact.

Misconstruing my words aside, humans are animals and instinct tells us to procreate. Consciousness might say otherwise, but that's getting into a something I don't much care to jump into.

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#19Kelvyquayo, Posted: Nov 29 2011 at 5:30 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Actually you are right, I misspoke and I apologize. You did nowhere actually state that you give into those instincts. I mistakenly read it as if you were saying that you consciously agree with those animal instincts and thus see no problem with having the morality of animals.
#20 Nov 29 2011 at 5:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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We didn't wait til marriage, but we were both virgins together before we did the horizontal mambo (about seven years before we sucked it up and finally got married.) We avoided marriage not because of any fear of commitment, but because of the Grad Student Curse (graduate students who tend to get married while in grad school tend to get divorced after they graduate. Happens to doctors and lawyers and other professionals too.) Now I'm in grad school myself so I'm not sure how the curse applies...

We're celebrating our 10th anniversary of our first date in late January at a very nice, very expensive restaurant in Atlanta.

I think what's important is that you be good friends, with or without the sexual relationship. There are days where we just want to chill together on the couch and throw popcorn at the TV. Then there are days where there might as well be bad **** music playing as our soundtrack. We have very rare fights, but never bad ones, and they usually blow over in a few hours with both of us apologizing sheepishly for being so silly. The friendship to us is just as important, or more important, than the ***. That said he's a total fiend in bed and **** I'm a lucky girl.

In my view, unless you have some compelling religious reason to hold back, and you do have some inkling of how protection works, there's no reason not to go for it once both parties are comfortable with it.
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#21 Nov 29 2011 at 6:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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Kelvyquayo wrote:
Do I think that a person can actually think their way out of this behavior once they have jumped down this slippery slope? Not really..


To be fair I can't really comment on it. The steps you lined out seem completely foreign to me, so I'll have to take your word for it. In our case we were friends before we got together, and that friendship has been core of the relationship more than anything else. I don't know about the rest of it, but it's been like 12 years now so I'm a bit removed from the modern relationship I suppose.
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#22 Nov 29 2011 at 6:57 PM Rating: Good
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It could be admirable to wait until you were ready to have a kid, because really, even with protection there is a chance to have a baby.

If you're ready and/or able to raise a kid, or abort a kid, or adopt off a kid, then I suppose you're good to go.

Being married or having a committed partner does help ensure better provisioning for a kid, so it could be said to be wise to wait, at least until some committment.

But really, if do a good job minimizing chance of pregnancy and just use good sense I'd not ever suggest getting married in order to have ***. I mean, *** is a nice thing to have with someone. Smiley: grin
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#23 Nov 29 2011 at 7:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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Sexual compatibility isn't something I'd want to leave to chance, personally. Sure, you might luck out and have compatible drives and preferences. But you very well might not.

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#24 Nov 29 2011 at 8:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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Sexual compatibility isn't something I'd want to leave to chance, personally. Sure, you might luck out and have compatible drives and preferences. But you very well might not.


This.
Basically, the only difference between lovers and friends is (obviously) the ***. Now, some people might be ok being married to a friend, someone that they don't have a great sexual relationship with. Not me. Sexual compatibility *is* part of marriage for a lot of people. And if I had waited until I got married and then found out that I didn't enjoy *** with my husband, I would just have to get a divorce. I'm not cut out for anything else.

I realize this is just me though. I'm sure there are plenty of happily married couples that just get by sexually.
#25 Nov 29 2011 at 9:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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Just thinking about an ex couple I know like that... they were friends, had been best friends, since high school, but there was no sexual attraction. ****, the poor girl was half gender identity disordered throughout college, and used to joke to me about her huge imaginary *****. (Actual quote: "The best thing about the imaginary ***** is that you can make it grow to 20 feet and fling it onto the car in front of you when they're driving badly!" She was a trip.)

She married him, at the pressure of her family and his family and him. He had a master's degree in chemical engineering and got a six figure job as soon as he was out of college. She would have wanted for nothing for the rest of her life. But she was miserable. She described it as a "G-rated marriage" and she was just so unhappy with everything in her life.

Then she fell in love with another guy, another old friend of ours. (****, I remember them cosplaying a yaoi couple together back in anime club days.) This time, there was the fireworks. He was a poor art student and had nothing compared to her husband, except, well, perhaps the most important thing.

She divorced her husband (she's still paying off her first wedding) and moved in with the other guy (who happened to be an old room mate of mine and The Little Brother I Never Had, so I was pretty concerned about this whole situation for a while. And even disapproved in a fuddy duddy sort of way.) They have been in bliss ever since.

She's scared of marriage now, but she's with the guy she really loves, it's definitely not a G rated relationship, and they're both happy (albeit poor, since he's a graphics artist.)

Moral of the story: If the spark isn't there, a marriage isn't going to work. Is it worth risking misery and debt by not finding that out ahead of time?
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#26 Nov 30 2011 at 1:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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I don't know if there is an actual correlation or not, but I sometimes think if people not waiting is what leads to an increase of infidelity in a marriage. I've heard people say "it's too hard to wait" (I think this is what Britney Spears said when she was supposedly relevant), and it makes me wonder if they never developed self-control. So when somebody shows an interest in them after marriage, they have no idea how to say no and just let hormones control their actions.

Quote:
Sexual compatibility isn't something I'd want to leave to chance, personally. Sure, you might luck out and have compatible drives and preferences. But you very well might not.

Isn't this something a couple should discuss before they married anyway?

Edited, Nov 30th 2011 2:29am by xantav
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