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so how super(committee) screwed are we here? Follow

#27 Nov 21 2011 at 12:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
The cuts are to take place in 2013. I've read an article or two though saying that the defense budget has to be submitted fairly early into 2012 for various budgeting reasons; namely so it can be included in the overall budget. Since the 2013 federal budget is supposed to be taken care of in 2012 (recent years not withstanding), pushing everything out past the elections isn't going to be especially viable.


Ahh I see.

Still feels like a game of political hot-potato. I get this feeling that both sides know changes need to be made, and any substantive changes will likely be unpopular. Meaning little political will to actually do anything to fix it. My Smiley: tinfoilhat side wonders if you're better off just losing an election to tap into the resulting 'popular outrage' after the changes have been made. Hoping of course, the other side can't come up with a new creative way to string the country along and then toss the problem back in your lap. Smiley: rolleyes

Ugh I'm cynical this morning... Smiley: lol
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#28 Nov 21 2011 at 12:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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someproteinguy wrote:
Still feels like a game of political hot-potato. I get this feeling that both sides know changes need to be made, and any substantive changes will likely be unpopular. Meaning little political will to actually do anything to fix it.

No argument there.
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#29 Nov 21 2011 at 1:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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someproteinguy wrote:
Still feels like a game of political hot-potato.
The list of things that aren't would be a shorter list.
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#30 Nov 21 2011 at 5:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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The real issue, I think, will be the thread of getting our financial rating downgraded again and other things of this nature. Those are much more real and immediate(ish) consequences of this failing.
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#31 Nov 21 2011 at 8:44 PM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
Anyway, whether you want to agree that its warranted or not, the tizzy is a GOP thing.


No, it's really not. The Dem politicians will stay quiet about it, and they'll let their water carriers on the left wing make it out like it's just the GOP who cares about this, but there are a hell of a lot of Dems who are tied at the hip to numerous defense projects likely to be first on the chopping block. They just hope that it wont come to that and that they wont be the ones who have to step out and prevent those cuts, so they can have their cake and eat it too.


I get that folks on the left have political reasons for painting things in such simplistic terms, but that doesn't make it true.
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#32 Nov 21 2011 at 9:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Anyway, whether you want to agree that its warranted or not, the tizzy is a GOP thing.
No, it's really not.

Smiley: laughSmiley: laughSmiley: laugh

Ah, you.
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#33 Nov 22 2011 at 10:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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They're totally in a tizzy by not being in a tizzy? That's, interesting.
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#34 Nov 22 2011 at 10:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm sure there's select Democratic congresscritters who are upset about defense cuts due to situations in their specific district. Just like there's Republican critters who'll praise a stimulus-funded train station being built in their district as the best thing since sliced bread. But if you think the level of hand-wringing on both sides is anything near parity, you need to get the lead levels in your house checked.

Gbaji's "they're all upset but it's secret upset!" bit is him trying to make himself feel better about the resolution thus far. Saying that the Democrats are just as worried makes it sound less like the Republicans just got rolled.

Edited, Nov 22nd 2011 10:17am by Jophiel
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#35REDACTED, Posted: Nov 22 2011 at 10:53 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Kao,
#36 Nov 22 2011 at 10:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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Was wondering when the stupid would pipe up.
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#37 Nov 22 2011 at 10:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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varusword75 wrote:
The GOP should absolutely refuse to work with these scoundrels.

They did. Enjoy the defense cuts Smiley: smile
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#38 Nov 22 2011 at 11:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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In other news, Glenn Beck yesterday announced that he thinks Obama will win the election. If you're one of his millions of listeners/viewers and happen to care what he thinks.
#39 Nov 22 2011 at 11:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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varusword75 wrote:
Of course this could lead to violent revolution, just like what's going on in greece. That's what happens when you create a society where 10's of millions of citizens rely on others for their very basic needs of food and shelter.


So if they make ya'll mad enough you'll start acting like liberals? Smiley: dubious
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#40 Nov 22 2011 at 3:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
Gbaji's "they're all upset but it's secret upset!" bit is him trying to make himself feel better about the resolution thus far. Saying that the Democrats are just as worried makes it sound less like the Republicans just got rolled.


You do realize that rank and file Republicans are far more willing to allow the programmed cuts to take effect than rank and file Democrats, right? The hand wringing and tizzies and whatnot are what the media spin is focusing on. The Dem politicians and their pundits are sitting quietly hoping that all the media focus on the military cuts and how much the GOP wont want them will build ground for some way around the cuts themselves. You have to know that it would be far more of a disaster for them if the programmed cuts go through.

Conservatives want cuts. If those cuts also hit the military, that sucks, but we'll take it. Getting equal cuts in domestic spending is a huge bonus as well. The charade playing out in Washington is not the same as what families are sitting around their kitchen tables talking about. I guarantee you that nearly every conservative is weighing tax increases versus the programmed cuts and will happily accept the latter. It'd be nice to find a way to cut spending in ways that don't impact the military as much, but cutting spending is better than raising taxes.


It's the left who is deathly afraid of these cuts.
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#41 Nov 22 2011 at 3:43 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Conservatives want cuts.

Theoretically possible.

gbaji wrote:
If those cuts also hit the military, that sucks, but we'll take it.

Smiley: lolSmiley: laughSmiley: lol
Smiley: laughSmiley: lolSmiley: laugh
Smiley: lolSmiley: laughSmiley: lol


Edited, Nov 22nd 2011 3:43pm by Majivo
#42 Nov 22 2011 at 3:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
You do realize that...

I love it when you say it. It's a guarantee that you're getting ready to spin big time.

Have anything to back up these assertions beyond you insisting that it must be true? I love the "Oh, the media says..." bit which is Gbaji-code for "I'm just saying what I desperately wish was true and any information to the contrary will be dismissed as left wing media propaganda".

Shades of the threads regarding the deficit deal which led to this committee in the first place. Which I accurately predicted would, if failed, lead to the GOP getting more hysterical than the Democrats Smiley: smile

Quote:
It's the left who is deathly afraid of these cuts

I guess that explains why I'm laughing at you right now.
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#43 Nov 22 2011 at 3:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
If those cuts also hit the military, that sucks, but we'll take it. we'll throw a tizzy and fight them every step of the way.

Smiley: nod
#44 Nov 22 2011 at 6:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
Shades of the threads regarding the deficit deal which led to this committee in the first place. Which I accurately predicted would, if failed, lead to the GOP getting more hysterical than the Democrats Smiley: smile


Which is funny since I haven't seen a whole lot of hysteria among the GOP. What I have seen is a whole lot of liberal pundits jumping up and down and talking about how angry the GOP must be about all of this. Cart leading the horse, right? It's nice to see that you march to the steady beat of liberal assumptions though!

I guess what's so strange about your need to paint this the way you do is that clearly the GOP cares more about not raising taxes than preventing those cuts (both to the military and domestic spending). So it's hard to take your "hysterical" comments seriously, doubly so when I see nothing remotely close to that among my fellow conservatives, or pundits, or politicians. The overwhelming reaction is disappointment that they couldn't come up with more specific cuts to cover the 1.5T, but happiness that our representatives didn't cave and give up tax increases. We'd rather have 1.2T in spending cuts than 1.5T in "deficit reduction" which includes tax increases.


I doubt that's the outcome the Democrats wanted though.
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#45 Nov 22 2011 at 6:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Which is funny since I haven't seen a whole lot of hysteria among the GOP.

But then, you're not getting your news from anywhere.

Quote:
I doubt that's the outcome the Democrats wanted though.

After "increase revenue", "force defense to absorb half the hits while shielding entitlements from cuts" was exactly what the Democrats wanted.

Donate enough times to the "right" people and you'll find yourself on every activist e-mail list known to man. Just for giggles, here's a sample letter received today detailing just how upset the Left is about this. Not the rank and file Democrats but the people who care enough to send me newsletters about it...
Quote:
After the Obama administration caved on the Bush tax cuts, and then on the debt ceiling negotiations when Republicans proved that they were all too willing to drive our economy over a cliff in order to advance their radical agenda, it seemed unlikely that Democrats would be able to make a stand on the Super Committee and protect our nation's safety net.

But thankfully, the Democrats didn't play to type. Yesterday, it was announced that Democrats stood up to Republicans in the end and prevented a bad deal on the deficit. As a result of this deadlock, less destructive but still painful cuts to social programs will be triggered along with much needed cuts to defense spending — all to happen in early 2013 when one hopes the economy is stronger.
[...]
The Super Committee saga could have resulted in unprecedented cuts to Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. But in the end, Democrats stood united, and refused to cave to Republican intransigence on their demands for massive cuts coupled with permanent extension of the Bush tax cuts. Unlike in past stand offs, Democrats didn't react to Republican intransigence with ever worse compromises.[...]And while Democrats flirted with these cuts, even putting them on the table in their attempts to negotiate, at the end of the day they refused to bend to Republicans' extreme intransigence on the budget.

No hand wringing. No demands that we petition Congress to block these cuts. No claims that these cuts will weaken the nation and all that jazz. Just a congratulatory message (and later a link to sign some thank you letter).

Edited, Nov 22nd 2011 10:08pm by Jophiel
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