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#52 Nov 20 2011 at 9:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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Almalieque wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
Your correction was wrong though. It wasn't T'is, it was supposed to be This.

With your correction, the sentence would have said It is is.


Which is why I made the correction!!! Why would I correct "'Tis your"? Him leaving out a letter created another word. "Tis" isn't a common typo, so I assumed that he left off an apostrophe than an "h".

In any case, "you're" isn't the same as "your".

Nadenu wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
Your correction was wrong though. It wasn't T'is, it was supposed to be This.

With your correction, the sentence would have said It is is.

This.
Leaving out a letter is not the same as not knowing which word to use. Which is something you do all the **** time.


You mean like "you're" and "your" which was in the very same sentence?



Edited, Nov 20th 2011 5:24pm by Almalieque

Edited, Nov 20th 2011 5:24pm by Almalieque

I'm guessing you had to edit this twice because you used the wrong words again.
#53 Nov 20 2011 at 9:53 AM Rating: Good
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So, your assumption was to jump to a sporadically used term versus the more likely, and quite common, simple typo?
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#54 Nov 20 2011 at 10:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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It's the only way to distract everyone from his latter:ladder mistake, if everyone was retarded.

Which they are if they're even posting back and forth with Alma.
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#55 Nov 20 2011 at 11:41 AM Rating: Decent
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Nilatai wrote:
So what I said then.


Oh, I'm sorry then. I thought you were implying that I would be against the black person receiving material from the white person to build the latter.

In any case, you're still wrong. Just because the material came from the white person, that doesn't mean it was affirmative action.

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#56 Nov 20 2011 at 11:54 AM Rating: Decent
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Nadenu wrote:

I'm guessing you had to edit this twice because you used the wrong words again.


So, are you going to answer my question about the miss usage of "you're" vs "your". Does that count as "using the wrong word"?

To answer your question, no. I looked up 'Tis and found out that it isn't "T'is" how Ugly incorrectly spelled it, but " 'Tis ", so I made that correction. Also, I left off an "f" off of "off". Finally, I left out the word "I" in a sentence.

Ugly wrote:
So, your assumption was to jump to a sporadically used term versus the more likely, and quite common, simple typo?


I frequently use " 'Tis " just because, so yes, in my mind, I wasn't thinking of "this". And no, I have never seen that typo ever before ever. You're just making that up.

LolGaxe wrote:
It's the only way to distract everyone from his latter:ladder mistake, if everyone was retarded.


Pretty sure I stated that I made a mistake. In any case, that wasn't a distraction, but a point. I write "latter" instead of "ladder" and I should take an English class. Someone else writes "You're" instead of "your" and misspells a word all in a 4 word sentence and nothing is mentioned.
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#57 Nov 20 2011 at 12:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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Almalieque wrote:
Oh, I'm sorry then. I thought you were implying that I would be against the black person receiving material from the white person to build the latter.

Can you seriously not quit **** this one up even after it was pointed out to you? "Ladder" is not a difficult word.

Almalieque wrote:
And no, I have never seen that typo ever before ever. You're just making that up.

Smiley: lolSmiley: laughSmiley: lol How are you so consistently small-minded and petty?

Almalieque wrote:
LolGaxe wrote:
It's the only way to distract everyone from his latter:ladder mistake, if everyone was retarded.


Pretty sure I stated that I made a mistake.

.. Yet still repeated it a post later.

Almalieque wrote:
In any case, that wasn't a distraction, but a point. I write "latter" instead of "ladder" and I should take an English class. Someone else writes "You're" instead of "your" and misspells a word all in a 4 word sentence and nothing is mentioned.

Probably because no one here has a seething hatred for the other guy, yet you're incredibly obnoxious and won't go away. Also because you constantly try to use words which are above you in an attempt to appear intellectual, yet fail because you can't even spell them.
#58 Nov 20 2011 at 12:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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Almalieque wrote:
Nadenu wrote:

I'm guessing you had to edit this twice because you used the wrong words again.


So, are you going to answer my question about the miss usage of "you're" vs "your". Does that count as "using the wrong word"?

To answer your question, no. I looked up 'Tis and found out that it isn't "T'is" how Ugly incorrectly spelled it, but " 'Tis ", so I made that correction. Also, I left off an "f" off of "off". Finally, I left out the word "I" in a sentence.

Using "your" when "you're" is the correct word also drives me insane. But since that happens more often, there aren't enough hours in the day to correct those people.

Also, I never said anything about "tis".

Also, also, I just like busting your chops.

Edited, Nov 20th 2011 1:33pm by Nadenu
#59 Nov 20 2011 at 12:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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Almalieque wrote:
Nilatai wrote:
So what I said then.


Oh, I'm sorry then. I thought you were implying that I would be against the black person receiving material from the white person to build the latter.

In any case, you're still wrong. Just because the material came from the white person, that doesn't mean it was affirmative action.


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#60 Nov 20 2011 at 12:52 PM Rating: Decent
Alma wrote:

Vageta argued that the best thing for the black person is to stand there hoping and wishing that one day the white guy will stick out his hand and help him.


I did?

All I said was I support AA & would even support slavery reparations. Why I feel that way is illustrated in post #15. Are either "the best" solution? Probably not. But AA is what we got and it isn't enough to help even the playing field for anything other than the smallest percentage of minorities.

Slavery reparations would even the playing field, dramatically. It'll never happen, but it's the simplest way to reduce the advantage many whites have by way of the inherent wealth they enjoy for no other reason than they were not born the descendant of a slave.
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#61 Nov 20 2011 at 12:57 PM Rating: Default
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Majivo wrote:
Probably because no one here has a seething hatred for the other guy, yet you're incredibly obnoxious and won't go away. Also because you constantly try to use words which are above you in an attempt to appear intellectual, yet fail because you can't even spell them.


??? You think "ladder" is a "high level" word? Smiley: dubious

I suck at spelling. I suck at grammar. I'm sorry that I'm not perfect like you. Given the fact that the average person is terrified of Algebra and can't do simple calculations in their heads, I feel perfectly fine with my
flaws.Smiley: grin


Nadenu wrote:
Using "your" when "you're" is the correct word also drives me insane. But since that happens more often, there aren't enough hours in the day to correct those people.



The point was that error was on the same level of error as "your vs you're", but you're acting as if I'm doing something differently. Just like how I confused "reputation" with "repetition", I confused "ladder" with "latter" and I will always make those mistakes. So, if you're short on time on making stupid corrections, then you should add me with your "you're" and "your" group.

Nadenu wrote:
LADDER.
God, you make it so easy.


Rad above.



Nadenu wrote:
Also, I never said anything about "tis".


You said that my edits were about using wrong words. I told you what words I corrected. One word being 'tis.

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#62 Nov 20 2011 at 1:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Omegavegeta wrote:
Alma wrote:

Vageta argued that the best thing for the black person is to stand there hoping and wishing that one day the white guy will stick out his hand and help him.


I did?

All I said was I support AA & would even support slavery reparations. Why I feel that way is illustrated in post #15. Are either "the best" solution? Probably not. But AA is what we got and it isn't enough to help even the playing field for anything other than the smallest percentage of minorities.

Slavery reparations would even the playing field, dramatically. It'll never happen, but it's the simplest way to reduce the advantage many whites have by way of the inherent wealth they enjoy for no other reason than they were not born the descendant of a slave.


Omegavegeta on post #1155 wrote:
Until something better than affirmative action comes along, I'm going to support it.


If you don't believe that anything "better" exists, then you believe that it is currently the "best". I'm telling you that it isn't the "best" solution and there are other solutions that are currently "better" than affirmative action. I'm not against AA. I'm just against the idea of it being a good overall solution. AA shouldn't be anything more than a temporary hold to get you on your feet, just like with the concept of welfare. I support it as an initial step of assistance, but I do not support people relying on it.

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#63 Nov 20 2011 at 1:38 PM Rating: Good
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Almalieque wrote:
Majivo wrote:
Probably because no one here has a seething hatred for the other guy, yet you're incredibly obnoxious and won't go away. Also because you constantly try to use words which are above you in an attempt to appear intellectual, yet fail because you can't even spell them.


??? You think "ladder" is a "high level" word? Smiley: dubious

I didn't say anything about "high level" words, I was talking about words which are above you. Given your difficulty in grappling with it, "ladder" plainly falls into that category.
#64 Nov 20 2011 at 1:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Majivo wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
Majivo wrote:
Probably because no one here has a seething hatred for the other guy, yet you're incredibly obnoxious and won't go away. Also because you constantly try to use words which are above you in an attempt to appear intellectual, yet fail because you can't even spell them.


??? You think "ladder" is a "high level" word? Smiley: dubious

I didn't say anything about "high level" words, I was talking about words which are above you. Given your difficulty in grappling with it, "ladder" plainly falls into that category.


Predictable puppet,

Unless you consider someone who uses the word "ladder" to be "intellectual", you were obviously referring to words in which you thought I was using to appear "intellectual".

Also, it is very possible for people to confuse words and not be an idiot. You know, kind of how people say "you're" for "your" or "who's" with "whose" or "it's" with "its"..... This is not a new concept. Funny how that works...
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Demea wrote:
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#65 Nov 20 2011 at 2:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yes, it is possible, certainly. It simply isn't the situation with you. You genuinely are an idiot.
#66 Nov 20 2011 at 2:28 PM Rating: Decent
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Majivo wrote:
Yes, it is possible, certainly. It simply isn't the situation with you. You genuinely are an idiot.


You genuinely are an idiot. Well that was easy Smiley: lol

Edited, Nov 20th 2011 10:29pm by Almalieque
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#67 Nov 20 2011 at 4:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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Almalieque wrote:
Nadenu wrote:
Using "your" when "you're" is the correct word also drives me insane. But since that happens more often, there aren't enough hours in the day to correct those people.


The point was that error was on the same level of error as "your vs you're",

No, it's not.

Almalieque wrote:
Nadenu wrote:
LADDER.
God, you make it so easy.


Rad above.


/giggle
#68 Nov 20 2011 at 7:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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This thread makes my brain sad.
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#69 Nov 20 2011 at 10:07 PM Rating: Excellent
Alma wrote:

If you don't believe that anything "better" exists, then you believe that it is currently the "best". I'm telling you that it isn't the "best" solution and there are other solutions that are currently "better" than affirmative action.


Name one that addresses the generational wealth that give white's an inherent advantage over the descendants of slaves whom don't have that advantage.
Alma wrote:

I'm not against AA. I'm just against the idea of it being a good overall solution. AA shouldn't be anything more than a temporary hold to get you on your feet, just like with the concept of welfare. I support it as an initial step of assistance, but I do not support people relying on it.


No one "relies" on AA. It's similar to charter school lotteries in that only the "luckiest" of minorities actually get to benefit from it. Any white's that feel disenfranchised because of AA, kindly take a gander at post #15 again.
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#70 Nov 20 2011 at 11:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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We need more scholars posting in this thread so we can reach our quota. no more new sage or guru posters in here until we get more scholar posters.
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#71 Nov 20 2011 at 11:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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#72 Nov 21 2011 at 6:58 AM Rating: Excellent
Nadenu wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
Your correction was wrong though. It wasn't T'is, it was supposed to be This.

With your correction, the sentence would have said It is is.

This.
Leaving out a letter is not the same as not knowing which word to use. Which is something you do all the **** time.


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Edited, Mar 21st 2011 2:14pm by Darqflame Lock Thread: Because Lubriderm is silly... ~ de geso

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#73 Nov 21 2011 at 7:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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You know they're bringing that show back?
#74 Nov 21 2011 at 7:33 AM Rating: Good
I did not know that. I hope they do it right, because I loved it the first time.
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Edited, Mar 21st 2011 2:14pm by Darqflame Lock Thread: Because Lubriderm is silly... ~ de geso

Almalieque wrote:
I know what a glory hole is, but I wasn't sure what the business part was in reference to.

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#75 Nov 21 2011 at 8:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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I can't imagine it doing well.
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#76 Nov 21 2011 at 10:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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We need more scholars posting in this thread so we can reach our quota. no more new sage or guru posters in here until we get more scholar posters.
This would be an awesome new admin tool
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#77 Nov 21 2011 at 11:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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Sir Xsarus wrote:
Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
We need more scholars posting in this thread so we can reach our quota. no more new sage or guru posters in here until we get more scholar posters.
This would be an awesome new admin tool

The admins have the power to go one better than affirmative action. They can make us all equal in the eyes of the internets.

One color to rule us all.....
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#78 Nov 21 2011 at 12:12 PM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
Sir Xsarus wrote:
Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
We need more scholars posting in this thread so we can reach our quota. no more new sage or guru posters in here until we get more scholar posters.
This would be an awesome new admin tool

The admins have the power to go one better than affirmative action. They can make us all equal in the eyes of the internets.

One color to rule us all.....


Personally, I don't even see color. Posters tell me that I am a Sage and I believe them, because admins let me break the swear filter with impunity.

Edited, Nov 21st 2011 1:13pm by Eske
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#79 Nov 21 2011 at 12:40 PM Rating: Good
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Eske Esquire wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Sir Xsarus wrote:
Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
We need more scholars posting in this thread so we can reach our quota. no more new sage or guru posters in here until we get more scholar posters.
This would be an awesome new admin tool

The admins have the power to go one better than affirmative action. They can make us all equal in the eyes of the internets.

One color to rule us all.....


Personally, I don't even see color. Posters tell me that I am a Sage and I believe them, because admins let me break the swear filter with impunity.

Edited, Nov 21st 2011 1:13pm by Eske

There's no rule about not breaking the swear filter as far as I know. In fact, I think the swear filter is just a little forum-puzzle. Kinda like Gems.




Edited, Nov 21st 2011 7:40pm by Elinda
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#80 Nov 21 2011 at 12:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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There's rules, just only enforced outside of =4.
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#81 Nov 21 2011 at 3:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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#82 Nov 21 2011 at 3:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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someproteinguy wrote:
So TL:DR life sucks, marry a white man?


I married a white man and it worked for me. I make more money than him and I'm accruing all the fringe benefits off his efforts and life work. Smiley: schooled

I totally sound like a heartless **** right now.
#83 Nov 21 2011 at 4:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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Omegavegeta wrote:
Slavery reparations would even the playing field, dramatically. It'll never happen, but it's the simplest way to reduce the advantage many whites have by way of the inherent wealth they enjoy for no other reason than they were not born the descendant of a slave.


What's bizarre is that I've been reading this thread, and Alma does have a legitimate question/point/whatever with regard to your response, but it's not the one he keeps making.

IIRC, someone asked why his family, who weren't in this country when slavery existed, should have to pay reparations for those actions just because he happens to be white? As an extension, we could ask how one would determine who gets those reparations as well, but that's a separate question.

Alma quoted that question and asked you to respond. Your response was simply "post 15". The problem is that the cartoon does not address the question which was asked. The kid who's up top isn't the same kid who stepped on the other 150+ years ago. And in many cases, he's not descended from that kid, nor are many who might demand AA descended from the kid who was stepped on either.


You might have a point if AA and even reparations were aimed at just those who were descended from slaves. But they're not. And the arguments for why they aren't get more and more tortuous the farther you delve into them. It's certainly not as simple as the cartoon makes it out and it's kinda silly to refuse to provide any more argument *except* that cartoon. Now admittedly in this case, it appears to be working, but let's not think that you're really winning any great mental battles here, shall we?
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#84 Nov 21 2011 at 4:28 PM Rating: Default
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The kid is representing white people as a whole, the other kid represents black people as a whole.


I can't believe I really had to explain that cartoon... Smiley: rolleyes

Edited, Nov 21st 2011 5:28pm by Nilatai
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#85 Nov 21 2011 at 4:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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Alma's our token black guy. Shame really, because they're supposed to be cooler.
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#86 Nov 21 2011 at 4:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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Except he doesn't seem to have the decency to get killed off.
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#87 Nov 21 2011 at 4:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Omegavegeta wrote:
Slavery reparations would even the playing field, dramatically. It'll never happen, but it's the simplest way to reduce the advantage many whites have by way of the inherent wealth they enjoy for no other reason than they were not born the descendant of a slave.


What's bizarre is that I've been reading this thread, and Alma does have a legitimate question/point/whatever with regard to your response, but it's not the one he keeps making.

IIRC, someone asked why his family, who weren't in this country when slavery existed, should have to pay reparations for those actions just because he happens to be white? As an extension, we could ask how one would determine who gets those reparations as well, but that's a separate question.

Alma quoted that question and asked you to respond. Your response was simply "post 15". The problem is that the cartoon does not address the question which was asked. The kid who's up top isn't the same kid who stepped on the other 150+ years ago. And in many cases, he's not descended from that kid, nor are many who might demand AA descended from the kid who was stepped on either.


You might have a point if AA and even reparations were aimed at just those who were descended from slaves. But they're not. And the arguments for why they aren't get more and more tortuous the farther you delve into them. It's certainly not as simple as the cartoon makes it out and it's kinda silly to refuse to provide any more argument *except* that cartoon. Now admittedly in this case, it appears to be working, but let's not think that you're really winning any great mental battles here, shall we?


Being a white male, I've benefited to a degree by simply being who I am. Most people tend to associate with people who are like them, so I've benefited via a halo effect if nothing else. Marrying inter-racially made this abundantly clear to me in ways I could have never fathomed before.

To what degree I should feel guilty about this, and to what degree I should attempt to even the playing field is certainly debatable. I've never been actively racist, but I'm certainly guilty of associating more with my 'own kind.'

Funny how this becomes a black/white issue though. Maybe we just don't have many blacks up here (well we don't really Smiley: rolleyes), but local AA debates tend to revolve more around language barriers and ESL classes as much as anything else.
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#88 Nov 21 2011 at 5:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Nilatai wrote:
The kid is representing white people as a whole, the other kid represents black people as a whole.


Yes. And not all white people participated in slavery of black people in the US. And not all black people were victims of slavery in the US. Surely you can see how this is problematic in the context of slave reparations and AA?


Quote:
I can't believe I really had to explain that cartoon... Smiley: rolleyes


And I can't believe I had to explain how the cartoon doesn't apply to the situation at hand.


Edited, Nov 21st 2011 3:02pm by gbaji
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#89 Nov 21 2011 at 5:05 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Nilatai wrote:
I can't believe I really had to explain that cartoon... Smiley: rolleyes
And I can't believe I had to explain how the cartoon doesn't apply to the situation at hand.
I can believe how a joke would sail over your head.

Edited, Nov 21st 2011 6:06pm by lolgaxe
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#90 Nov 21 2011 at 5:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Black people are statistically worse off in your country as a direct result of slavery, though. Except, I suppose, when it comes to physical prowess. You'll find that descendants of slaves are more physically powerful than those who aren't. That comes down to slaves being bred together to make big strong super-slaves, though...


You can't really think that black people have an equal footing?
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#91 Nov 21 2011 at 5:08 PM Rating: Decent
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someproteinguy wrote:
Being a white male, I've benefited to a degree by simply being who I am. Most people tend to associate with people who are like them, so I've benefited via a halo effect if nothing else. Marrying inter-racially made this abundantly clear to me in ways I could have never fathomed before.


This is that "tortuous" bit I wrote about earlier. So it's not just "we hurt this guy, so we'll help him now" like the cartoon suggests. It's far more complex and honestly deserves more than just referencing a cartoon, right?

Quote:
To what degree I should feel guilty about this, and to what degree I should attempt to even the playing field is certainly debatable. I've never been actively racist, but I'm certainly guilty of associating more with my 'own kind.'


I think the bigger question is whether reparations would do a single thing to change anything like Omega claims. He thinks that would fix everything up just fine. I really don't think so. The problems are far more complex than just money. And they're more complex than just blaming everything on white racism too.

Quote:
Funny how this becomes a black/white issue though. Maybe we just don't have many blacks up here (well we don't really Smiley: rolleyes), but local AA debates tend to revolve more around language barriers and ESL classes as much as anything else.


Same arguments can apply there too. The cartoon only applies to former slaves though, so I was trying to stick to that part of the issue. Certainly, AA isn't applied based on historical issues so much as current ones. Historical harm is the justification sought and found to strengthen what would otherwise be a very weak argument. I think it's a BS (and pretty darn circular) argument though.
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#92 Nov 21 2011 at 5:13 PM Rating: Decent
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Nilatai wrote:
Black people are statistically worse off in your country as a direct result of slavery, though.


They are statistically worse off. Is this a direct result of slavery though?

Quote:
You can't really think that black people have an equal footing?


That depends what you mean by equal footing. Do black people have the same rights and opportunities under the law? Absolutely. Do a statistically higher percentage of black people grow up in households where they are less likely or able to take advantage of those things? Absolutely.


Instead of simply pointing to the existence of a problem and leaping to an assumed solution, we should really ask the questions "why?", and "what can we do about it?". I really think far too many people stop at the point you do and then just accept the answers they are given without thinking it through.
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#93 Nov 21 2011 at 5:18 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Nilatai wrote:
Black people are statistically worse off in your country as a direct result of slavery, though.


They are statistically worse off. Is this a direct result of slavery though?
Yes.

gbaji wrote:
Quote:
You can't really think that black people have an equal footing?


That depends what you mean by equal footing. Do black people have the same rights and opportunities under the law? Absolutely. Do a statistically higher percentage of black people grow up in households where they are less likely or able to take advantage of those things? Absolutely.
Smiley: rolleyes You know that's not what I mean, don't be disingenuous.


gbaji wrote:
Instead of simply pointing to the existence of a problem and leaping to an assumed solution, we should really ask the questions "why?", and "what can we do about it?". I really think far too many people stop at the point you do and then just accept the answers they are given without thinking it through.

The "why" was already asked. Affirmative action was the "what can we do about it?".


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#94 Nov 21 2011 at 5:35 PM Rating: Good
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Nilatai wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Nilatai wrote:
Black people are statistically worse off in your country as a direct result of slavery, though.


They are statistically worse off. Is this a direct result of slavery though?
Yes.


I think providing evidence would help support your case. Any statistical data or something? Basically, anything but a single word answer?

If school has taught me anything, it's don't accept anything without a source. Especially stuff like this.
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#95 Nov 21 2011 at 5:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
Being a white male, I've benefited to a degree by simply being who I am. Most people tend to associate with people who are like them, so I've benefited via a halo effect if nothing else. Marrying inter-racially made this abundantly clear to me in ways I could have never fathomed before.


This is that "tortuous" bit I wrote about earlier. So it's not just "we hurt this guy, so we'll help him now" like the cartoon suggests. It's far more complex and honestly deserves more than just referencing a cartoon, right?


Certainly.

gbaji wrote:
Quote:
To what degree I should feel guilty about this, and to what degree I should attempt to even the playing field is certainly debatable. I've never been actively racist, but I'm certainly guilty of associating more with my 'own kind.'


I think the bigger question is whether reparations would do a single thing to change anything like Omega claims. He thinks that would fix everything up just fine. I really don't think so. The problems are far more complex than just money. And they're more complex than just blaming everything on white racism too.


I agree, money doesn't make these problems go away. Most of the time it's used to compensate wrong-doing though, so it's not like the concept is completely foreign to us sue-happy Americans. Smiley: wink

gbaji wrote:
Quote:
Funny how this becomes a black/white issue though. Maybe we just don't have many blacks up here (well we don't really Smiley: rolleyes), but local AA debates tend to revolve more around language barriers and ESL classes as much as anything else.


Same arguments can apply there too. The cartoon only applies to former slaves though, so I was trying to stick to that part of the issue. Certainly, AA isn't applied based on historical issues so much as current ones. Historical harm is the justification sought and found to strengthen what would otherwise be a very weak argument. I think it's a BS (and pretty darn circular) argument though.


Fair enough, I try to separate the AA from the reparation issue in my mind I suppose, since a AA program would be more far-reaching. Not that all others do the same. Those historical/cultural issues on the other coast, well I have to admit I'm probably not familiar enough with them to offer an educated opinion. Smiley: smile

Anyway, yeah, anything I write here after will probably start sounding a lot like the discussion in the occupy thread, so I'll just wrap this up now... Smiley: lol

Edited, Nov 21st 2011 3:37pm by someproteinguy
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#96 Nov 21 2011 at 6:02 PM Rating: Good
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IDrownFish wrote:
Nilatai wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Nilatai wrote:
Black people are statistically worse off in your country as a direct result of slavery, though.


They are statistically worse off. Is this a direct result of slavery though?
Yes.


I think providing evidence would help support your case. Any statistical data or something? Basically, anything but a single word answer?

If school has taught me anything, it's don't accept anything without a source. Especially stuff like this.

I'm feeling lazy, so lolwiki will have to do I'm afraid:

In 2008 the American Humanist Association published an article which argued that if emancipated slaves had been allowed to possess and retain the profits of their labor, their descendants might now control a much larger share of American social and monetary wealth.[11] Not only did the freedmen and -women not receive a share of these profits, but they were stripped of the small amounts of compensation paid to some of them during Reconstruction. The wealth of the United States, they say, was greatly enhanced by the exploitation of Black slave labor.[21] According to this view, reparations would be valuable primarily as a way of correcting modern economic imbalance. The US Department of Commerce has calculated that in modern US dollars calculated for inflation and interest, slavery generated trillions of dollars for the US economy.[22]


Their rationale makes sense to me. Does it make sense to you?


Cue gbaji's 25 paragraph post about how the actions of past generations are irrelevant today.
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#97 Nov 21 2011 at 6:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Nilatai wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Nilatai wrote:
Black people are statistically worse off in your country as a direct result of slavery, though.


They are statistically worse off. Is this a direct result of slavery though?
Yes.


I disagree, so perhaps you should elaborate rather than just assume you're right and move on?

Quote:
gbaji wrote:
Quote:
You can't really think that black people have an equal footing?


That depends what you mean by equal footing. Do black people have the same rights and opportunities under the law? Absolutely. Do a statistically higher percentage of black people grow up in households where they are less likely or able to take advantage of those things? Absolutely.
Smiley: rolleyes You know that's not what I mean, don't be disingenuous.


No. I don't know that's not what you mean. How about you stop being vague?

Quote:
The "why" was already asked.


But not answered.


Quote:
Affirmative action was the "what can we do about it?".


And I challenge that because I don't think we've adequately addressed the "why" question yet. Why the **** do you think I make a point of saying we should not leap to an assumed solution, but should ask those questions first?


Edited, Nov 21st 2011 4:24pm by gbaji
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#98 Nov 21 2011 at 6:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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I agree with gbaji in principle, though perhaps not with all the particulars of his point.


The notion that reparations are a viable idea is naive at best. I'm against affirmative action as well, but that's not a position that I'm particularly passionate about. I understand the rationale for it, even if I'm not on board.

Edited, Nov 21st 2011 7:09pm by Eske
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#99 Nov 21 2011 at 6:11 PM Rating: Good
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The "why" is "Black people are at least 200 years behind whites in accumulating wealth, due to them being exploited so whites can accumulate wealth while not being able to keep any wealth for themselves". How is this complicated?

It's like not understanding why GBP is one of the strongest currencies in the world is due to us raping the rest of the world for their natural resources, leaving us better off.





Edited, Nov 21st 2011 7:11pm by Nilatai
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#100 Nov 21 2011 at 6:29 PM Rating: Good
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#101 Nov 21 2011 at 6:31 PM Rating: Decent
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Nilatai wrote:
The "why" is "Black people are at least 200 years behind whites in accumulating wealth, due to them being exploited so whites can accumulate wealth while not being able to keep any wealth for themselves". How is this complicated?


It's not complicated. It's wrong. Economics doesn't work that way. There are a whole **** of a lot of white people who were just as poor as the average black person back in the late 19th and early 20th century, who's descendants are today far far better off statistically. It's clearly about more than just how much money black people had in their pockets at a starting point in say 1880.

Therefore, the answer requires that we look at far more than just how much revenue was gained for slave owners and taken from the slaves themselves during the preceding century or so. Hell. How many former slave owners descendants are statistically wealthier than non slave owners? If the direct economic transfer effects of slavery were that powerful in terms of impact today, we'd expect to see a whole bunch of rich southern families who made their fortunes on the back of slaves back then and who's families are still lording it over everyone today.


But that's not the case, is it? So why believe that a direct transfer of money in the other direction today would solve anything? It's completely illogical to think so.

Quote:
It's like not understanding why GBP is one of the strongest currencies in the world is due to us raping the rest of the world for their natural resources, leaving us better off.


If you think that the strength of the British Pound today has anything at all to do with their prominence during the colonial era, you've somehow missed a whole huge amount of stuff that happened in between.
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