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OWS evicted from Zuccotti ParkFollow

#1 Nov 15 2011 at 7:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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Original site of OWS is clear, for now. Bloomberg said protesters can return after it is cleaned, but cannot bring anything to help them stay there. "Now they will have to occupy the space with the power of their arguments."

Quote:
New York (CNN) -- Police in full riot gear moved in to New York's Zuccotti Park early Tuesday morning, evicting hundreds of protesters from the site where the Occupy call to action began two months ago before spreading globally.

Dozens of protesters who had camped out at the Lower Manhattan park since September 17 linked arms in defiance. Many chanted, "Whose park? Our park" and "You don't have to do this."

Police arrested at least 14 people, said Kanene Holder, a spokeswoman for the Occupy Wall Street movement. Authorities did not immediately provide figures.

Mayor Michael Bloomberg's office said the move is temporary.

"Occupants of Zuccotti should temporarily leave and remove tents and tarps. Protestors can return after the Park is cleared," the mayor's office said in a tweet at 1:34 a.m.

About 10 minutes later, the eviction began.

Police handed out notices from the park's owner, Brookfield Office Properties, that said the continued occupation posed a health and fire hazard.

"You are required to immediately remove all property, including tents, sleeping bags and tarps from Zuccotti Park," the note said. "That means you must remove the property now."

The Occupy Wall Street website video streamed the eviction under a banner headline that read, "NYPD is raiding Liberty Square." Liberty Square is the former name of the park.

While many protesters left without resisting, many others moved to the center of the park to an area known as the kitchen. There, they built barricades with tables to keep police away.

The air was thick with smoke, which some protesters said was from teargas that officers lobbed.

Others said officers took thousands of books from the camp's makeshift library and tossed them in Dumpsters.

"In an immense show of force, police have shown their presence," Holder said. "I've seen how agitated the police are and some pushing and shoving to remove us."

CNN could not confirm those accounts, as police kept journalists a block and a half away from the park during their raid.


Just some thoughts on it:
1. Full riot gear? Just go in and arrest them if they're breaking the law.
2. Midnight? Kinda sketchy timing. Probably wanted the darkness because of the...
3. Media blackout? All journalists were kept away from the park, and only allowed to take pictures of the "mess" after all the protesters were out. Note that the mess came after tearing down all of the tents/tarps/library/kitchen area.


It was a calculation from Bloomberg, IMO. He looks tough on the OWS, but lets them return so he can't be fully decried by the protesters, and this gives them an excuse to stay inside as it gets cold. Protests can continue in the spring when people can stay outside without freezing to death. Not a bad move all around, but shutting the media out and carrying out a midnight raid in riot gear leaves a very bad taste in my mouth.
#2 Nov 15 2011 at 7:41 AM Rating: Good
I don't know why they would shut out the media, but it does reduce the chance that someone will try to play for the camera and provoke an officer into overreacting. I'm fine with the riot gear, it allows officers to move people more safely, and it's imposing, so less people will try to start trouble.
#3 Nov 15 2011 at 7:44 AM Rating: Good
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I bet most the protesters were secretly relieved to be throw out. The ground doesn't just get colder with winter, it gets harder too.
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#4 Nov 15 2011 at 7:52 AM Rating: Decent
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Lazy cnuts. Not necessarily the ones actually in OWS as I don't give a **** how much your people protest, but the ones who were protesting in Halifax, predominately fit that title.
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#5 Nov 15 2011 at 7:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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I don't see too much wrong with it. He sort of flubbed saying that the "First Amendment protects speech; it does not protect the use of tents and sleeping bags to take over a public space" (hint: it also protects Freedom of Assembly) but I agree that said freedom isn't absolute. Let the OWS folks protest 6am-10pm or something if they want.

As for the ways and means, the whole purpose of riot gear is to protect officers from large crowds. The time to put it on is before things get ugly, not to wait until the rocks start flying and call "time out!".
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#6 Nov 15 2011 at 8:17 AM Rating: Default
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Protestors wrote:
"Whose park? Our park"
It is a public park, not their park.
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#7 Nov 15 2011 at 8:19 AM Rating: Decent
lolgaxe wrote:
Protestors wrote:
"Whose park? Our park"
It is a public park, not their park.
A privately owned public park, even less theirs.
#8 Nov 15 2011 at 8:23 AM Rating: Good
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Looked it up, and huh. Guess it is privately owned. Yeah, definitely not theirs and they're subject to whatever rules anyone else says. In fact, since it's privately owned, the owners are obligated to keep it clean so it's a viable argument to kick them out. And the OWS folks are far from the cleanest folks ...
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#9 Nov 15 2011 at 8:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah, I was reading something when the OWS thing started about how they sort of lucked into their situation. Had they hit one of the public parks, the city would/could have evicted them after the park was officially closed for the night but, since it was private, the city actually had less jurisdiction. It wasn't planned, just that the OWS people were blocked form their first choices at the start and stumbled into their present situation.
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#10 Nov 15 2011 at 8:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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Duke Lubriderm wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Protestors wrote:
"Whose park? Our park"
It is a public park, not their park.
A privately owned public park, even less theirs.

Privately owned, but by an agreement with the city upon its construction, open 24/7 to anyone who wants to visit it (until now, as the city has imposed a 10pm curfew and the owning company has banned tents/sleeping bags/tarps) Smiley: schooled
#11 Nov 15 2011 at 8:33 AM Rating: Default
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Well the movement has mostly fizzled out at this point. Sadly the only way to really change anything is through the violence that the system itself uses. Until the people are mad enough to do that things wont change.
#12 Nov 15 2011 at 8:39 AM Rating: Good
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Peimei wrote:
Well the movement has mostly fizzled out at this point. Sadly the only way to really change anything is through the violence that the system itself uses. Until the people are mad enough to do that things wont change.

What kind of change do you think would come if people got violent?

OWS has gone global. It will have a lasting effect, but any change in the worlds corporate climate will not be measured over days or even months.
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#13 Nov 15 2011 at 8:41 AM Rating: Good
Peimei wrote:
Well the movement has mostly fizzled out at this point. Sadly the only way to really change anything is through the violence that the system itself uses. Until the people are mad enough to do that things wont change.
I think actually representing yourself well while protesting would be more effective than staging a revolt.
#14 Nov 15 2011 at 8:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
What kind of change do you think would come if people got violent?

New job openings in the fire fighting industry.
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#15REDACTED, Posted: Nov 15 2011 at 8:47 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) People have been protesting for change for decades. What has that achieved? Nothing.
#16 Nov 15 2011 at 8:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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Peimei wrote:
but in the end you must fight fire with fire. Look to the Zappatista(sp?) movement for an example of how its done.
So your solution is for the OWS people to set fire to corporate buildings, and the next day get slaughtered by a superior force?
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#17 Nov 15 2011 at 8:56 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm 100% behind the ideas set out by OWS but once it turned into a global camp out it's message was lost. A bunch of people hanging out in a park eating hummus and couscous talking to each other about how corrupt the world banking system is doesn't amount to change. Violence or a true general strike would be effective. But how do you organize every single worker in a society that has spent decades demonizing anything that left wing? And obviously an armed revolution in the USA would be a nasty bloody affair that in the end would just leave the country open to attack from outsides. (This is the core of the long term Canadian takeover plan btw)
#18 Nov 15 2011 at 8:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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Peimei wrote:
People have been protesting for change for decades. What has that achieved? Nothing.
Ok not nothing the OWS movement has awakened a new sense of anarchistic thought and organization but in the end you must fight fire with fire. Look to the Zappatista(sp?) movement for an example of how its done.

Zapatista, and I don't think you're proving your point. After almost two decades of fighting, the state they are based in (Chiapas) is one of the poorest in Mexico. Their people are some of the least educated (6.7 years of education on average, compared to 8.4 nationally).

Zapatista, at least as we were taught it while studying in Mexico, is primarily about maintaining the ethnic minority identity left in Mexico and opposing the Mexican state because they repressed the ethnic races. To that end, they've waged a guerilla war for the 13% of indigenous Mexicans to rule the rest of the people; and short of that, to make their lives miserable. So far, it seems to be working. The making them miserable part, that is.

Edit: They remind me more of Ireland and the IRA than OWS, whom I see as trying to be like other mostly peaceful protests like the civil rights movement or the Indian independence movement.

Edited, Nov 15th 2011 10:02am by LockeColeMA
#19 Nov 15 2011 at 8:59 AM Rating: Good
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Peimei wrote:
I'm 100% behind the ideas set out by OWS but once it turned into a global camp out it's message was lost. A bunch of people hanging out in a park eating hummus and couscous talking to each other about how corrupt the world banking system is doesn't amount to change. Violence or a true general strike would be effective. But how do you organize every single worker in a society that has spent decades demonizing anything that left wing? And obviously an armed revolution in the USA would be a nasty bloody affair that in the end would just leave the country open to attack from outsides. (This is the core of the long term Canadian takeover plan btw)

The 99% aren't oppressed, arrested without6 cause, tortured, starved or voiceless.

I think violence as a means to exact change in this situation would bring about results that were not in anyway beneficial to the cause or the country.
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#20REDACTED, Posted: Nov 15 2011 at 9:12 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Wat?
#21 Nov 15 2011 at 9:23 AM Rating: Decent
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Peimei wrote:
Elinda wrote:

The 99% aren't oppressed, arrested without cause, tortured, starved or voiceless.


Wat?

is it the mysterious typo in that quote that confuses you? It's not there when I look at it in edit mode.

The 99%, you know, you, me, the kid next door and homeless guy. Downtrodden and exploited perhaps by corporate greed, falling victim to loss of governmental power to the same corporations - sure, but we're not being tortured by a dictatorial regime, we are not a starving people, we can speak our minds - even if no one listens.

You go to war with the oil companys, the pharmaceuticals and the big banks and you'll lose quite handily.
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#22 Nov 15 2011 at 9:37 AM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
The 99%, you know, you, me, the kid next door and homeless guy. Downtrodden and exploited perhaps by corporate greed, falling victim to loss of governmental power to the same corporations - sure, but we're not being tortured by a dictatorial regime, we are not a starving people, we can speak our minds - even if no one listens.

You go to war with the oil companys, the pharmaceuticals and the big banks and you'll lose quite handily.

Oh, you. Smiley: laugh

Edited, Nov 15th 2011 9:37am by Demea
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#23 Nov 15 2011 at 9:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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Twiz is totally starving. His steak & egg sandwich was shit and he only finished, like, 60% of it.
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#24 Nov 15 2011 at 9:59 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Twiz is totally starving. His steak & egg sandwich was shit and he only finished, like, 60% of it.

They probably forgot the ketchup. No one ever remembers the ketchup on bf sandwiches.

Check this out: Here in the US of Awesome we can get chicken, fish and beef all on one bun - and there's still room for a little teeny piece of pickle. McDonalds Land, Sea and Air Burger.
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#25 Nov 15 2011 at 10:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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LockeColeMA wrote:

Just some thoughts on it:
1. Full riot gear? Just go in and arrest them if they're breaking the law.
2. Midnight? Kinda sketchy timing. Probably wanted the darkness because of the...
3. Media blackout? All journalists were kept away from the park, and only allowed to take pictures of the "mess" after all the protesters were out. Note that the mess came after tearing down all of the tents/tarps/library/kitchen area.


It was a calculation from Bloomberg, IMO. He looks tough on the OWS, but lets them return so he can't be fully decried by the protesters, and this gives them an excuse to stay inside as it gets cold. Protests can continue in the spring when people can stay outside without freezing to death. Not a bad move all around, but shutting the media out and carrying out a midnight raid in riot gear leaves a very bad taste in my mouth.


A spin on the 'midnight' thing.

Police told people here they'd be evicted at 12:01am Sunday. That came and went. By about 9am the protesters thought they had won, and many of them that were gearing up for a fight went home. Then they cleared the park almost without incident as some were asleep and others were out on a protest march. They also asked the occupy representitives to take down some of the baracades that some of the protesters were trying to erect, an interesting spin on things.

Anyway, the fences are up around the parks now, and we're told it'll take until spring for the parks to be back to where they were (the grass is pretty much mud now), though they want to open them before then. Occupy people say they want to get enough money to rent an office space somewhere so they don't have to camp in the parks. End result is about $800,000 in police overtime + the park cleanup costs. Mayor already said we don't have that anywhere in the budget. Smiley: rolleyes

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#26 Nov 15 2011 at 10:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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someproteinguy wrote:

A spin on the 'midnight' thing.

Police told people here they'd be evicted at 12:01am Sunday. That came and went. By about 9am the protesters thought they had won, and many of them that were gearing up for a fight went home. Then they cleared the park almost without incident as some were asleep and others were out on a protest march. They also asked the occupy representitives to take down some of the baracades that some of the protesters were trying to erect, an interesting spin on things.


Quote:
"Occupants of Zuccotti should temporarily leave and remove tents and tarps. Protestors can return after the Park is cleared," the mayor's office said in a tweet at 1:34 a.m.

About 10 minutes later, the eviction began.


Smiley: dubious I'm curious where you're getting this from, or if you were there. All I've read so far said a midnight deadline, and then the eviction happened within a few hours. All the video I've seen is from long before the sun came up.

In other news, a NY Supreme Court judge issued a court order to allow the protesters to return immediately. Police aren't letting them in as of yet, despite the order.
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