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NYPD Police BrutalityFollow

#27 Sep 28 2011 at 1:01 PM Rating: Good
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
And no, by law, this wasn't legal in NYC. They are only permitted to use pepper spray on someone who poses an immediate threat to themselves or someone else, to aid in an arrest of someone resisting, to stop someone from fleeing arrest, or to take control of an emotionally disturbed person.

Sounds to me like it fell in to at least half of those. All of those protesters, by being there, pose a threat to themselves and anyone else in the area. Also, by simply showing up, they are quite obviously emotionally disturbed.
#28 Sep 28 2011 at 1:13 PM Rating: Good
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idiggory wrote:
Right, because editing in ONE video discredits the 10 others you can find easily that have no signs whatsoever. What an amazing argument you've constructed.
I was discrediting your assertion that "none of them show any signs of editing in any form." Not only that, but the three videos you've provided, are clips linked together are showing only pieces of the event. Then again, your obvious goal is to proclaim "POLICE ARE EVIL," and you're not interested in the truth at all. However, let's go this way: Where is a video of the whole event, from start to finish? One that isn't just clips, isn't edited in any way, and just a pure example of all the events that lead up to the break down? And by whole event, I mean when the first person showed up for the protest, to the end when the crowd dispersed.
idiggory wrote:
They are only permitted to use pepper spray on someone who poses an immediate threat to themselves or someone else, to aid in an arrest of someone resisting, to stop someone from fleeing arrest, or to take control of an emotionally disturbed person.
Yes, five situations that cause unruly crowds. Congratulations for your realization. Along the way, you've claimed you found ten completely different videos of the event, I'm guessing your new argument is that now eight of them are completely unedited. Like the first part of this post, are any of them completely and irrefutably unedited and complete, or are they clips who's purpose aren't to show 100% of what happened? That's the freakin' point. It isn't irrelevant.

Sorry, but I don't just automatically assume what people are saying is the truth.

Edited, Sep 28th 2011 3:14pm by lolgaxe
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#29 Sep 28 2011 at 1:43 PM Rating: Good
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Is 9 minutes good enough for you?
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#30 Sep 28 2011 at 2:04 PM Rating: Decent
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That video doesn't show us what was happening when that group was sprayed. I saw a guy who attempted to run into the street the cops had just cleared get arrested. Bunch of unruly folks yelling at the cops. Then another person flailing on the ground (no clue why from this video angle). Then more yelling and the idiot taking the video running the other way, then turning around and seeing the kids who were pepper sprayed crying.

Life lesson at worst. Hardly police brutality.

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#31 Sep 28 2011 at 2:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah, I suppose I'm missing something with no sound. I'm not really outraged at anything I see. So the police were trying to set up that 'do not cross' barrier there or something as well?
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#32 Sep 28 2011 at 2:15 PM Rating: Good
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The video doesn't show much of the actual event, but it does confirm the earlier events in the other videos as well as set up the context in which they occurred. The other videos show the actual event (and this shows the immediate aftermath, as well as the cops' surprised reactions to what the lieutenant did).
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#33 Sep 28 2011 at 2:38 PM Rating: Decent
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Is 9 minutes good enough for you?


Thanks for that. Up until that video I would have agreed that the pepper spray was excessive.

After watching that you can see that the police were repeatedly telling people to stay out of the road and people were intentionally stepping into the road in order to provoke a response. When they got the response (being drug into the street and arrested) other members of the crowd got unruly, including shouting a few threats. The pepper spray was used to disperse a crowd that had become unruly and was becoming threatening to the officers. Not only justified, but effective.

Edited, Sep 28th 2011 10:40am by Raolan
#34 Sep 28 2011 at 2:43 PM Rating: Good
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I fail to see the logic there. They were penning these people in with fences on all side and then use pepper spray to... disperse the crowd?

Also, the people in the area he targeted hadn't been unruly at all--that was more towards the center/opposite end of the crowd. How does spraying the end actually obeying your commands help matters?
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#35 Sep 28 2011 at 2:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Raolan wrote:
The pepper spray was used to disperse a crowd that had become unruly and was becoming threatening to the officers. Not only justified, but effective.


Yeah. Pretty much this. It's clear from the videos that the officers were trying to clear the street. The group that was sprayed was the group pushing the most into the street. And yeah. It was pretty darn effective. In seconds they accomplished what they'd been trying to do for a good 20 minutes.

Still not feeling much angst over this. Bunch of young idiots who think their opinions are more important than everything else in the world got a lesson that they really aren't special unique snowflakes. Maybe this lesson will prevent them from doing something far more stupid and dangerous in the future.
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#36 Sep 28 2011 at 2:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
I fail to see the logic there. They were penning these people in with fences on all side and then use pepper spray to... disperse the crowd?

Also, the people in the area he targeted hadn't been unruly at all--that was more towards the center/opposite end of the crowd. How does spraying the end actually obeying your commands help matters?


TBH it's really hard to see that from the video. It's looks like the cops are starting to have a tough time keeping the crowd under control.
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#37 Sep 28 2011 at 2:58 PM Rating: Decent
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
I fail to see the logic there. They were penning these people in with fences on all side and then use pepper spray to... disperse the crowd?

Also, the people in the area he targeted hadn't been unruly at all--that was more towards the center/opposite end of the crowd. How does spraying the end actually obeying your commands help matters?


Both sides weren't penned in, they blocked the street and one side of the sidewalk to prevent people from moving further up the street. They wanted people to move in a certain direction, which isn't hard to figure out. Also, if they weren't letting people through, how did the guy with the camera, the people supposedly being singled out and attacked, get through?

The cop didn't spray a single person, he swept the crowd, which is why another officer got it too. The fumes from pepper spray are enough to put most people down, people in a crowd are going to get hit. That's the risk you take when you put yourself in that situation. If the crowd gets unruly, even if you don't, you're likely going to get caught in the crossfire.

They tried pulling individual offenders out of the crowd, but they started fighting. At one point you see one of the people pull an officer back into the crowd, which puts that officer into an extreme amount of danger since anyone near him could have went for his gun.
#38 Sep 28 2011 at 3:05 PM Rating: Decent
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
I fail to see the logic there. They were penning these people in with fences on all side and then use pepper spray to... disperse the crowd?


They weren't penning them in. They were attempting to move the protesters out of the street and then down the street. You didn't notice that they started in one area and then the police gradually pushed the netting along? The ruckus started when people kept pushing against and then jumping over/around the netting. They were moving the whole group down the street.

The group "not doing anything" was pushing against the netting in the opposite direction the police were trying to get them to go. That's why they got sprayed.

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Also, the people in the area he targeted hadn't been unruly at all--that was more towards the center/opposite end of the crowd. How does spraying the end actually obeying your commands help matters?


They were at the part of the netting most in the street and most "up" the street. Go look at the videos again.
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#39 Sep 28 2011 at 3:08 PM Rating: Good
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Raolan wrote:
Also, if they weren't letting people through, how did the guy with the camera, the people supposedly being singled out and attacked, get through?


You'll also note that nearly all of the videos (certainly all with a close view *after* the spraying) were from the "down" side of the street. They were trying to get people to move down the street. The folks with cameras on that side were not bothered. It was the people who kept trying to get around/through the netting on the other side that the police kept having to corral and move back (and in some cases, got into a tussle with).
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#40 Sep 28 2011 at 7:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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In all fairness, NYPD has surface to air missiles now. We probably shouldn't antagonize them.
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#41 Sep 28 2011 at 8:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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MoebiusLord wrote:
Also, by simply showing up, they are quite obviously emotionally disturbed.

Because only the emotionally disturbed exercise their right to peaceably assemble, amirite?

SO: If you are shot at the next Tea Party assembly, I shouldn't cry for you?

OK

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#42 Sep 28 2011 at 8:56 PM Rating: Good
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Did you watch the same video I did?


Those people, regardless of what they may have been yelling were all well away from the barrier. The cop sprayed them because...what? Yelling at cops is no offence, last I heard.
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#43 Sep 28 2011 at 9:56 PM Rating: Good
Friar Bijou wrote:
MoebiusLord wrote:
Also, by simply showing up, they are quite obviously emotionally disturbed.

Because only the emotionally disturbed exercise their right to peaceably assemble, amirite?

Where were the videos of the peaceful assembly? I saw a mob inciting a riot, taunting police and causing a public menace.
#44 Sep 28 2011 at 10:09 PM Rating: Decent
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MoebiusLord wrote:
Friar Bijou wrote:
MoebiusLord wrote:
Also, by simply showing up, they are quite obviously emotionally disturbed.

Because only the emotionally disturbed exercise their right to peaceably assemble, amirite?

Where were the videos of the peaceful assembly? I saw a mob inciting a riot, taunting police and causing a public menace.


I didn't see anyone inciting a riot and taunting police/being a public menace aren't acts of violence.
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#45 Sep 28 2011 at 10:21 PM Rating: Decent
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
MoebiusLord wrote:
Friar Bijou wrote:
MoebiusLord wrote:
Also, by simply showing up, they are quite obviously emotionally disturbed.

Because only the emotionally disturbed exercise their right to peaceably assemble, amirite?

Where were the videos of the peaceful assembly? I saw a mob inciting a riot, taunting police and causing a public menace.


I didn't see anyone inciting a riot and taunting police/being a public menace aren't acts of violence.


You honestly can't see how one can directly lead to another?
#46 Sep 28 2011 at 10:21 PM Rating: Decent
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
MoebiusLord wrote:
Friar Bijou wrote:
MoebiusLord wrote:
Also, by simply showing up, they are quite obviously emotionally disturbed.

Because only the emotionally disturbed exercise their right to peaceably assemble, amirite?

Where were the videos of the peaceful assembly? I saw a mob inciting a riot, taunting police and causing a public menace.


I didn't see anyone inciting a riot and taunting police/being a public menace aren't acts of violence.

You should watch without your liberal douchebag glasses on.

Also, no violence does not equal peaceful.
#47 Sep 28 2011 at 11:07 PM Rating: Decent
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MoebiusLord wrote:
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
MoebiusLord wrote:
Friar Bijou wrote:
MoebiusLord wrote:
Also, by simply showing up, they are quite obviously emotionally disturbed.

Because only the emotionally disturbed exercise their right to peaceably assemble, amirite?

Where were the videos of the peaceful assembly? I saw a mob inciting a riot, taunting police and causing a public menace.


I didn't see anyone inciting a riot and taunting police/being a public menace aren't acts of violence.

You should watch without your liberal douchebag glasses on.

Also, no violence does not equal peaceful.


Regardless, if it's nonviolent it doesn't warrant the use of force.
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IDrownFish wrote:
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#48 Sep 29 2011 at 1:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hey, Moe, next time you're at a Tea Party rally remind me to get a cop to tase you.


Y'know, for disorderly conduct.

For talking.
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#49 Sep 29 2011 at 6:59 AM Rating: Excellent
Bijou, I don't know what video you saw, but...

Oh, sorry.
#50 Sep 29 2011 at 7:26 AM Rating: Good
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
MoebiusLord wrote:
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
MoebiusLord wrote:
Friar Bijou wrote:
MoebiusLord wrote:
Also, by simply showing up, they are quite obviously emotionally disturbed.

Because only the emotionally disturbed exercise their right to peaceably assemble, amirite?

Where were the videos of the peaceful assembly? I saw a mob inciting a riot, taunting police and causing a public menace.


I didn't see anyone inciting a riot and taunting police/being a public menace aren't acts of violence.

You should watch without your liberal douchebag glasses on.

Also, no violence does not equal peaceful.


Regardless, if it's nonviolent it doesn't warrant the use of force.

Only in my little pony rainbow land, sweetheart.
#51 Sep 29 2011 at 7:27 AM Rating: Good
Friar Bijou wrote:
Hey, Moe, next time you're at a Tea Party rally remind me to get a cop to tase you.


Y'know, for disorderly conduct.

For talking.

Next time you're in Minnesota, let me know. I'll be happy to arrange a redneck rally for you.
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