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#27 Sep 23 2011 at 3:40 AM Rating: Good
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Timelordwho wrote:
Now the follow-up.

What did you expect to learn, and what did you learn from this thought experiment Joph?
That most of you ar elying to yourselves when you say you're against capital punishment.
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#28 Sep 23 2011 at 5:36 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
I'd drop Phelps into the sea even without the gold option.

A thousand times this.
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#29 Sep 23 2011 at 5:41 AM Rating: Good
Uglysasquatch, Mercenary Major wrote:
Timelordwho wrote:
Now the follow-up.

What did you expect to learn, and what did you learn from this thought experiment Joph?
That most of you ar elying to yourselves when you say you're against capital punishment.


That isn't capital punishment. I wouldn't be doing it as a state authority. I'd be doing it as someone who thinks Phelps is Satan.
#30 Sep 23 2011 at 6:03 AM Rating: Good
I do not know who Fred Phelps is, so I'll go with the gold.
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#31 Sep 23 2011 at 6:11 AM Rating: Good
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catwho wrote:
Uglysasquatch, Mercenary Major wrote:
Timelordwho wrote:
Now the follow-up.

What did you expect to learn, and what did you learn from this thought experiment Joph?
That most of you ar elying to yourselves when you say you're against capital punishment.


That isn't capital punishment. I wouldn't be doing it as a state authority. I'd be doing it as someone who thinks Phelps is Satan.
You should try renting a backhoe. It'll make the digging much easier.
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#32 Sep 23 2011 at 7:04 AM Rating: Good
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Sandinmygum the Stupendous wrote:
I do not know who Fred Phelps is, so I'll go with the gold.

Fred Phelps is the head of the Westborough Baptist Church and all round hateful bigot. He's like varus, but irl.
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#33 Sep 23 2011 at 7:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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Uglysasquatch, Mercenary Major wrote:
That most of you are lying to yourselves when you say you're against capital punishment.

Setting aside the question of whether a sin of commission is the same as a sin of omission, I've never been against capital punishment on "Only God can decide..." style grounds. I'm against it because it relies on an imperfect legal system to make that (potentially flawed against an innocent) decision, doesn't reduce crime and is more expensive than the alternatives. Aside from caveman blood vengeance, it has no real benefit that I can see and multiple downsides. There's no reason beyond plain emotional ************ to support it.

Oh, the question itself was taken from another board. I just figured it was something for discussion besides the usual. No special motive beyond entertainment.

Edited, Sep 23rd 2011 8:50am by Jophiel
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#34 Sep 23 2011 at 7:57 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Uglysasquatch, Mercenary Major wrote:
That most of you are lying to yourselves when you say you're against capital punishment.

Setting aside the question of whether a sin of commission is the same as a sin of omission, I've never been against capital punishment on "Only God can decide..." style grounds. I'm against it because it relies on an imperfect legal system to make that (potentially flawed against an innocent) decision, doesn't reduce crime and is more expensive than the alternatives. Aside from caveman blood vengeance, it has no real benefit that I can see and multiple downsides. There's no reason beyond plain emotional ************ to support it.
Uhm, thanks?


It was a tongue in cheek comment.
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#35 Sep 23 2011 at 8:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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And your comment led to you to wisdom. So you never know what path enlightenment will take! Smiley: smile
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#36 Sep 23 2011 at 9:00 AM Rating: Good
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Uglysasquatch, Mercenary Major wrote:
Timelordwho wrote:
Now the follow-up.

What did you expect to learn, and what did you learn from this thought experiment Joph?
That most of you ar elying to yourselves when you say you're against capital punishment.

But it's consistent with a 'pro-choice' stance. Smiley: grin

I guess.

Still, electing to murder Phelps as long as the crime can be committed with absolute secrecy and net a boatload of cash, isn't really making any kind of statement about justice at all. It's an apples and oranges type thing.


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#37 Sep 23 2011 at 9:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm honestly surprised that anybody opted to save the fucker.

Even if people knew about my decision, I'd still save the gold.
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#38 Sep 23 2011 at 9:07 AM Rating: Decent
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Elinda wrote:
Still, electing to murder Phelps as long as the crime can be committed with absolute secrecy and net a boatload of cash, isn't really making any kind of statement about justice at all.
What it is a statement about though, is that you're no different than the large corporations you all hate so much who do what they want because they believe there's no repercussions for their actions.

Seriously, I can take pointless jabs all day long. Are you sure you really want to defend against each one?
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#39 Sep 23 2011 at 9:07 AM Rating: Decent
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Demea wrote:
I'm honestly surprised that anybody opted to save the fucker.

Even if people knew about my decision, I'd still save the gold.

It's really easy to save the bullies life when it only requires selecting the option on the poll.
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#40 Sep 23 2011 at 9:12 AM Rating: Decent
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Uglysasquatch, Mercenary Major wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Still, electing to murder Phelps as long as the crime can be committed with absolute secrecy and net a boatload of cash, isn't really making any kind of statement about justice at all.
What it is a statement about though, is that you're no different than the large corporations you all hate so much who do what they want because they believe there's no repercussions for their actions.

Seriously, I can take pointless jabs all day long. Are you sure you really want to defend against each one?

Honestly, I was one of the few that agreed to save the dude.

Still, I don't see the comparison...even switching from your argument in mid-stream from corporeal punishment to the actions of nefarious corporations.

Joph's poll was set up to take repercussions out of the equation.
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#41 Sep 23 2011 at 9:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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Uglysasquatch, Mercenary Major wrote:
you're no different than the large corporations you all hate so much

My net worth is a lot less.
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#42 Sep 23 2011 at 9:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Uglysasquatch, Mercenary Major wrote:
you're no different than the large corporations you all hate so much

My net worth is a lot less.
Not if you keep opting to let people die to take their weight in gold instead. How do you think they all got so large?
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#43 Sep 23 2011 at 9:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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It worked for the Spanish empire!
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#44 Sep 23 2011 at 9:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.
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#45 Sep 23 2011 at 9:17 AM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
Joph's poll was set up to take repercussions out of the equation.
If you can't connect the two after saying this, I'm not sure I can help you out.
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#46 Sep 23 2011 at 9:21 AM Rating: Decent
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Uglysasquatch, Mercenary Major wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Joph's poll was set up to take repercussions out of the equation.
If you can't connect the two after saying this, I'm not sure I can help you out.

Don't give up on me!!
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#47 Sep 23 2011 at 9:22 AM Rating: Good
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It's not you, it's the fun I'm not having anymore.
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#48 Sep 23 2011 at 9:31 AM Rating: Good
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Uglysasquatch, Mercenary Major wrote:
It's not you, it's the fun I'm not having anymore.
Time for a YouTube?


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#49 Sep 23 2011 at 8:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
Uglysasquatch, Mercenary Major wrote:
That most of you are lying to yourselves when you say you're against capital punishment.

Setting aside the question of whether a sin of commission is the same as a sin of omission, I've never been against capital punishment on "Only God can decide..." style grounds. I'm against it because it relies on an imperfect legal system to make that (potentially flawed against an innocent) decision, doesn't reduce crime and is more expensive than the alternatives.


While I can't speak for Ugly, I think the point here is that so many people who think it's wrong to kill someone via legal process involving conviction of a heinous crime by a jury of their peers, under strict legal requirements and scrutiny, followed by years (sometimes decades) of appeals process, followed by possibility of executive pardon, would justify killing someone because his method of expressing his freedom of speech annoys them (or they just want a bunch of money). I agree that the two conditions are not directly equivalent, but I'd think that the former should be much more ethically acceptable than the later.


I guess I have a hard time wrapping my brain around the idea that someone would oppose capital punishment because the process we use can't absolutely guarantee that we aren't killing an innocent man, but would be fully willing to act as judge, jury, and executioner for someone they personally dislike. It does seem a whole hell of a lot like a double standard. Jury of peers and due process isn't good enough, but if I decide someone deserves to die, then that's good enough!
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#50 Sep 23 2011 at 8:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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And Ugly accused me of taking a post on an internet poll too seriously Smiley: laugh
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#51 Sep 23 2011 at 8:27 PM Rating: Decent
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Just following your lead. Smiley: tongue
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