Forum Settings
       
Reply To Thread

Don't ask, don't tell, don't persueFollow

#1227 Nov 18 2011 at 12:52 PM Rating: Excellent
****
6,471 posts
Almalieque wrote:
we could actually get some where!!!


Smiley: dubious
#1228 Nov 18 2011 at 12:59 PM Rating: Default
The All Knowing
Avatar
*****
10,152 posts
Eske Esquire wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
we could actually get some where!!!


Smiley: dubious


In reference to the discussion. Circle jerking insults in his favorite game of "cat and mouse" doesn't do anything for the actual topic at hand.
#1229 Nov 18 2011 at 1:06 PM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
Almalieque wrote:
Thanks for the protip.

Not a problem. I could see you floundering.

Quote:
Now, if only you had the same level of interest in actually making a point relevant to the topic as opposed to inaccurate insults, we could actually get some where!!!

...and there you go under the water again Smiley: frown

Almalieque wrote:
Circle jerking insults in his favorite game of "cat and mouse" doesn't do anything for the actual topic at hand.

I noticed that your "evidence" regarding the poll's failings was pretty weak and laughable. You then went off on one of your usual half-cocked bits where you try to prove how little you understand polling. Was the actual topic at hand "Let's talk about polls without knowing what we're talking about"? If so, I'm sorry I disrupted your in-depth take on it.

Edited, Nov 18th 2011 1:08pm by Jophiel
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#1230 Nov 18 2011 at 1:15 PM Rating: Excellent
****
6,471 posts
Almalieque wrote:
Eske Esquire wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
we could actually get some where!!!


Smiley: dubious


In reference to the discussion.


Smiley: dubious
#1231 Nov 18 2011 at 1:21 PM Rating: Default
The All Knowing
Avatar
*****
10,152 posts
Jophiel wrote:
I noticed that your "evidence" regarding the poll's failings was pretty weak and laughable.


Such as what? You think creating a poll over the removal of DADT without actually ever asking you if you support it or not "pretty weak and laughable"?

Jophiel wrote:
You then went off on one of your usual half-cocked bits where you try to prove how little you understand polling.


Are you telling me that you can accurately determine a population's opinion on a highly divided subject by only polling a fraction of 1% of the total population?

Jophiel wrote:
Was the actual topic at hand "Let's talk about polls without knowing what we're talking about"? If so, I'm sorry I disrupted your in-depth take on it.


Do you or do you not believe that FOX news is more conservative than CNN and CNN is more liberal than FOX news?


Edited, Nov 18th 2011 9:24pm by Almalieque
#1232 Nov 18 2011 at 1:25 PM Rating: Default
The All Knowing
Avatar
*****
10,152 posts
Eske Esquire wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
Eske Esquire wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
we could actually get some where!!!


Smiley: dubious


In reference to the discussion.


Smiley: dubious


Don't worry, Jophiel figured it out..
#1233 Nov 18 2011 at 1:25 PM Rating: Excellent
Meat Popsicle
*****
13,399 posts
Almalieque wrote:
Are you telling me that you can accurately determine a population's opinion on a highly divided subject by only polling a fraction of 1% of the total population?


Smiley: disappointed

Any statistician can give you an answer for that one. Then while you're at it ask a politician how to take the results out of context. Smiley: rolleyes
____________________________
That monster in the mirror, he just might be you. -Grover
#1234 Nov 18 2011 at 1:27 PM Rating: Excellent
The Duck Whisperer
*****
15,512 posts
Almalieque wrote:

Are you telling me that you can accurately determine a population's opinion on a highly divided subject by only polling a fraction of 1% of the total population?
Statisticians might already have some sort of clue about this
____________________________
Iamadam the Prophet wrote:

You know that feeling you get when you have a little bit of hope, only to have it ripped away? Sweetums feeds on that.
#1235 Nov 18 2011 at 1:28 PM Rating: Default
The All Knowing
Avatar
*****
10,152 posts
someproteinguy wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
Are you telling me that you can accurately determine a population's opinion on a highly divided subject by only polling a fraction of 1% of the total population?


Smiley: disappointed

Any statistician can give you an answer for that one. Then while you're at it ask a politician how to take the results out of context. Smiley: rolleyes


Good thing there's a difference between mathematicians and statisticians. Stats are done to social standards. There is no bias in math.
#1236 Nov 18 2011 at 1:29 PM Rating: Excellent
The Duck Whisperer
*****
15,512 posts
Almalieque wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
Are you telling me that you can accurately determine a population's opinion on a highly divided subject by only polling a fraction of 1% of the total population?


Smiley: disappointed

Any statistician can give you an answer for that one. Then while you're at it ask a politician how to take the results out of context. Smiley: rolleyes


Good thing there's a difference between mathematicians and statisticians. Stats are done to social standards. There is no bias in math.
You have obviously never taken an upper-level statistics course
____________________________
Iamadam the Prophet wrote:

You know that feeling you get when you have a little bit of hope, only to have it ripped away? Sweetums feeds on that.
#1237 Nov 18 2011 at 1:29 PM Rating: Default
The All Knowing
Avatar
*****
10,152 posts
Sweetums wrote:
Almalieque wrote:

Are you telling me that you can accurately determine a population's opinion on a highly divided subject by only polling a fraction of 1% of the total population?
Statisticians might already have some sort of clue about this



Good thing there's a difference between mathematicians and statisticians. Stats are done to social standards. There is no bias in math.
#1238 Nov 18 2011 at 1:31 PM Rating: Default
The All Knowing
Avatar
*****
10,152 posts
Sweetums wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
Are you telling me that you can accurately determine a population's opinion on a highly divided subject by only polling a fraction of 1% of the total population?


Smiley: disappointed

Any statistician can give you an answer for that one. Then while you're at it ask a politician how to take the results out of context. Smiley: rolleyes


Good thing there's a difference between mathematicians and statisticians. Stats are done to social standards. There is no bias in math.
You have obviously never taken an upper-level statistics course



Not only have I taken two upper level stat classes, one of my colleagues got her PhD in Stats.
#1239 Nov 18 2011 at 1:31 PM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
Almalieque wrote:
Such as what?

Such as the use of advocacy agencies and editorial columns.

Quote:
Are you telling me that you can accurately determine a population's opinion on a highly divided subject by only polling a fraction of 1% of the total population?

As others have pointed out, you just don't understand stats. That's fine, I guess, but you should probably stop talking about them in that case.

Quote:
Do you or do you not believe that FOX news is more conservative than CNN and CNN is more liberal than FOX news?

Sure. It's not especially relevant though for several reasons.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#1240 Nov 18 2011 at 1:32 PM Rating: Excellent
Meat Popsicle
*****
13,399 posts
Almalieque wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
Are you telling me that you can accurately determine a population's opinion on a highly divided subject by only polling a fraction of 1% of the total population?


Smiley: disappointed

Any statistician can give you an answer for that one. Then while you're at it ask a politician how to take the results out of context. Smiley: rolleyes


Good thing there's a difference between mathematicians and statisticians. Stats are done to social standards. There is no bias in math.


Um what? Smiley: dubious

As much as I don't want to say it, you're going to have to elaborate on that. Last time I did a T-test I don't remember there being an "unless you are ***" condition...
____________________________
That monster in the mirror, he just might be you. -Grover
#1241 Nov 18 2011 at 1:32 PM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
Almalieque wrote:
Not only have I taken two upper level stat classes

I'd get my money back if I were you.
Quote:
one of my colleagues got her PhD in Stats.

Gbaji? Dat j00 with the stock "Oh, I knows a guy!" answer?
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#1242 Nov 18 2011 at 1:33 PM Rating: Excellent
The Duck Whisperer
*****
15,512 posts
Is your friend with the PhD related to Niobia's internet lawyer?
____________________________
Iamadam the Prophet wrote:

You know that feeling you get when you have a little bit of hope, only to have it ripped away? Sweetums feeds on that.
#1243 Nov 18 2011 at 1:46 PM Rating: Default
The All Knowing
Avatar
*****
10,152 posts
Jophiel wrote:
Such as the use of advocacy agencies and editorial columns.

You think creating a poll over the removal of DADT without actually ever asking you if you support it or not "pretty weak and laughable"?

Jophiel wrote:
As others have pointed out, you just don't understand stats. That's fine, I guess, but you should probably stop talking about them in that case.


You didn't answer the question.

Jophiel wrote:

Sure. It's not especially relevant though for several reasons.


What are those reasons?
#1244 Nov 18 2011 at 1:48 PM Rating: Excellent
Post 1205.
____________________________
"The Rich are there to take all of the money & pay none of the taxes, the middle class is there to do all the work and pay all the taxes, and the poor are there to scare the crap out of the middle class." -George Carlin


#1245 Nov 18 2011 at 1:54 PM Rating: Excellent
****
6,471 posts
Jophiel wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
Not only have I taken two upper level stat classes

I'd get my money back if I were you.


I wonder what the refund policy is for University of Phoenix online courses.
#1246 Nov 18 2011 at 1:59 PM Rating: Default
The All Knowing
Avatar
*****
10,152 posts
someproteinguy wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
Are you telling me that you can accurately determine a population's opinion on a highly divided subject by only polling a fraction of 1% of the total population?


Smiley: disappointed

Any statistician can give you an answer for that one. Then while you're at it ask a politician how to take the results out of context. Smiley: rolleyes


Good thing there's a difference between mathematicians and statisticians. Stats are done to social standards. There is no bias in math.


Um what? Smiley: dubious

As much as I don't want to say it, you're going to have to elaborate on that. Last time I did a T-test I don't remember there being an "unless you are ***" condition...



Being a statistician is like being a Physicist or Chemist. Although they use high level math, their focus is on the APPLICATION of the math, not the math itself. If you've taken higher level math courses with these sciences at the same time, you'll realize that those scientists develop procedures so that everyone is on the same page. To the mathematician, it's irrelevant.

A good example is the whole "heat exits the room, not cold air coming in". That's important to a Physicist when doing calculations in order to be consistent with the negative sign. For the mathematician, it doesn't matter where the negative sign goes.

It is not feasible for a statistician to poll the majority of the population, this is why there are multiple types of polls (with pros and cons) and there is "acceptable risk" (for a lack of a better term) that all statisticians use in order to be on the same page. However, that does not change the actual numbers in reference.
#1247 Nov 18 2011 at 2:00 PM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
Almalieque wrote:
You think creating a poll over the removal of DADT without actually ever asking you if you support it or not "pretty weak and laughable"?

Depends on the purpose of the poll.

Quote:
You didn't answer the question.

You mean I didn't answer it to your liking Smiley: smile

Quote:
What are those reasons?

Polling firms, aggregation of results, etc. You'll excuse me for not spending the keystrokes on details when you're still getting your mind blown by polling sample sizes.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#1248 Nov 18 2011 at 2:05 PM Rating: Excellent
The Duck Whisperer
*****
15,512 posts
Statistics is founded on probability theory which is pretty much based on measure theory, which leads you to nastier mathematical concepts that are generally not touched on in courses that aren't math heavy.

What generally happens is this, though:

ENGINEER/STATISTICIAN/PHYSICIST/WHATEVER: I need some stupid theorem/thing/whatever and I don't know it
(THEORETICAL) MATHEMATICIAN: pffff we've had that figured out for decades


Of course this whole dichotomy ignores applied mathematicians but I digress

Edited, Nov 18th 2011 2:13pm by Sweetums
____________________________
Iamadam the Prophet wrote:

You know that feeling you get when you have a little bit of hope, only to have it ripped away? Sweetums feeds on that.
#1249 Nov 18 2011 at 2:06 PM Rating: Default
The All Knowing
Avatar
*****
10,152 posts
Eske Esquire wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
Not only have I taken two upper level stat classes

I'd get my money back if I were you.


I wonder what the refund policy is for University of Phoenix online courses.


Besides the fact I didn't take any high level stat class from UoP, there would be no point in refunding money that I didn't spend, because it would just go back to the government. Thanks for help paying for my loldegree! I got at least 2 more to go from the government.
#1250 Nov 18 2011 at 2:20 PM Rating: Excellent
****
6,471 posts
Almalieque wrote:
Eske Esquire wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
Not only have I taken two upper level stat classes

I'd get my money back if I were you.


I wonder what the refund policy is for University of Phoenix online courses.


Besides the fact I didn't take any high level stat class from UoP, there would be no point in refunding money that I didn't spend, because it would just go back to the government. Thanks for help paying for my loldegree! I got at least 2 more to go from the government.


Do try to stay awake for the next two, then. For the sake of any poor **** who has to deal with you.
#1251 Nov 18 2011 at 2:23 PM Rating: Default
The All Knowing
Avatar
*****
10,152 posts
Jophiel wrote:
Depends on the purpose of the poll.


If DADT should remain in effect or not. Do you think it's "pretty weak and laughable" to point out sources on both sides of the argument that stated that the actual poll never asked if DADT should remain in effect in a poll to determine if DADT should remain in effect?

Jophiel wrote:
You mean I didn't answer it to your liking


Um no. You gave a response, but you never answered the question.

Jophiel wrote:
Polling firms, aggregation of results, etc. You'll excuse me for not spending the keystrokes on details when you're still getting your mind blown by polling sample sizes.


You say that but here you are "wasting keystrokes"... If your concern were wasting keystrokes, then according to your opinion of me, you shouldn't even be talking to me. So, obviously, that isn't your concern.

If Fox News and CNN are two respectful and "reliable" sources and they too have biases, what makes you believe that others aren't biased as well? If the same polls are done on both stations and the results are completely differently, shouldn't that tell you something? Most of the CNN viewers will vote liberal and most of the Fox news viewers will vote conservative. So a DEM president will more likely have higher approval ratings on CNN than on FOX news and vice versa with a Republican president, even though both polls are done identically.
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 1 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (1)