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#2002 Jan 06 2012 at 12:31 AM Rating: Good
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You're preaching your opinion rather than stating it Kelvyquayo. That's where the righteousness comes into play.
#2003 Jan 06 2012 at 12:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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Kelvyquayo wrote:
You accuse me of self-righteousness because I refuse to pretend that what I have experienced isn't a fact.



Experience
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The history of the word experience aligns it closely with the concept of experiment


Experiment
wiki wrote:
An experiment is a methodical procedure carried out with the goal of verifying, falsifying, or establishing the validity of a hypothesis. Experiments vary greatly in their goal and scale, but always rely on repeatable procedure and logical analysis of the results.


So...how do I repeat this experiment?
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#2004 Jan 06 2012 at 2:15 AM Rating: Good
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Kelvyquayo wrote:
Allegory wrote:
Kelvyquayo wrote:
we all want to believe that we have build this impenetrable fortress of impeccable righteousness

Based on the tone of most of your posts, it seems like it's mostly you.


Am I supposed to act like I think I'm wrong? You accuse me of self-righteousness because I refuse to pretend that what I have experienced isn't a fact.
If you really don't believe me then ask yourself why it upsets you so much.
OH; because you are actually the self-righteous one.

Think I'm wrong about that?



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#2005 Jan 06 2012 at 8:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
So...how do I repeat this experiment?
You'll need one point twenty-one jiggawatts.
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#2006Kelvyquayo, Posted: Jan 06 2012 at 10:20 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Have you tried praying to Your Creator everyday and begging for forgiveness for your sins repeatedly and making all attempts to understand the scripture that God has provided for us?
#2007 Jan 06 2012 at 10:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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How does one analyze and give consideration to something before immediatley dismisisng it? I'd like to learn.
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#2008 Jan 06 2012 at 2:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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Eh Kelvy, I believe in god/spirit/etc - the difference is accept that belief is a really personal thing, and that no matter what I have personally experienced in that respect - I can't expect others to take my word for it.

I don't think it is necessary for others to interpret their sense-data and experiences in the same way I do either. For me, all I want is for people to treat each other with diginity and respect. Although I believe in god I don't think of god as a personality that cares much about what I believe in.

Unfortunately, at least in my experience, those who claim to be the closest to god or have the most spiritual truths also tend to be more cruel and judgemental than other people. You can see it in all the people clinging to the homo-hating train.

It's funny because, at least in my opinion, by being hateful bigots, those individuals actually discredit the whole idea of god and spirit that they say they believe in
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#2009 Jan 06 2012 at 3:04 PM Rating: Good
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The pagan converts are always the craziest
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You know that feeling you get when you have a little bit of hope, only to have it ripped away? Sweetums feeds on that.
#2010 Jan 06 2012 at 3:31 PM Rating: Good
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Sweetums wrote:
The pagan converts are always the craziest


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When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.

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#2011 Jan 06 2012 at 3:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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I've seen that video a bunch of times before and this is the first time I noticed that the white in the background sort of pulses and swirls like some eldritch spirit behind her.
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#2012 Jan 06 2012 at 4:32 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
I've seen that video a bunch of times before and this is the first time I noticed that the white in the background sort of pulses and swirls like some eldritch spirit behind her.


Brilliant design decision.
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.

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#2013 Jan 06 2012 at 9:44 PM Rating: Default
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So I talked with my BN S1 , who is prior service, and after glancing at the pay chart, it doesn't seem possible to ever be in a situation where commissioning would have a smaller base pay. This is due to OE pay, which means your answer was just as much BS as mine was. Granted, I haven't looked at every scenario, but an E7 with 20 years would still make more as a 2LT if you were somehow able to still cross over.
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#2014Kelvyquayo, Posted: Jan 06 2012 at 10:03 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) You'll have to trust me when I say that I'm well aware that one cannot hand over one's faith like it's a glass of wine and yes I also believe that it is a personal thing; although the notion of relative truth as many people cling to is kind of laughable..
#2015 Jan 06 2012 at 11:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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Kelvyquayo wrote:



tl;dr: I'm that special cross of narcissistic and crazy that everyone detests

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#2016Kelvyquayo, Posted: Jan 06 2012 at 11:30 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Smiley: snore
#2017 Jan 06 2012 at 11:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't know if I believe that the truth is "relative," so much as I believe we have absolutely no way of knowing exactly what the truth is, so you live your life the way that it does the least harm, and you come away from it doing as much good as possible.

ETA: And yes, the only part of that post I read was that you think the idea of relative truth is laughable.

Edited, Jan 6th 2012 11:37pm by Belkira
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#2018 Jan 06 2012 at 11:44 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
we have absolutely no way of knowing exactly what the truth is


I agree that we cannot find out for ourselves: I agree. Only God knows the whole truth. While we can never intellectually come to any truth other than what we can guess; it is possible that God may open our eyes and give us a glimpse of the truth; that is the truth that no human being can every simply learn on their own; it has to come from God.
Once your eyes are open to that truth then you will feel an overwhelming need to share that truth with everyone that doesn't know it..because when it is from God you cannot really fight against it.

..which, of course, is why Christians are so @#%^ing annoying.
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#2019 Jan 06 2012 at 11:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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Kelvyquayo wrote:
Smiley: snore
Yes yes; captain obvious. I think you'd find that I covered that in the second paragraph.
thnx for playing
That's why it's a TLDR. I doubt anyone got past the first paragraph

Kelvyquayo wrote:
Only God knows the whole truth.

Too bad god doesn't exist. oh well.
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#2020 Jan 06 2012 at 11:57 PM Rating: Default
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Too bad god doesn't exist. oh well.


YOU DON'T EXIST, MAN!!!!1111ONEONEELEVENTYONE111!!

Smiley: drool
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#2021 Jan 07 2012 at 12:03 AM Rating: Excellent
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See the problem kelvy is your assumption that you have the truth. I recognize a plurality of partial truths, if only because none of us is qualified to pronounce absolutes.

Just because you believe what you believe doesn't make it true. Thinking anything else is nothing but self-delusion, honestly. We are limited beings with incomplete information, we're all bound to get it wrong sometimes.
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#2022Kelvyquayo, Posted: Jan 07 2012 at 12:20 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I really do agree with you and I think that we ALWAYS get it wrong; but once God is put in the picture and opens your eyes you will get even the smallest glimpse of the Truth and once you see it you can never go back to seeing things the way you did before. I do indeed truly realize that to people that do not believe in God that this automatically puts us into the lunatic, self-deluded, fanatic department; and I once thought the same thing. I had all the same arguments again those wacky, arrogant, brain-washed Christians.
#2023 Jan 07 2012 at 12:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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It's funny, because I used to go to a Baptist church. I believed every Sunday exactly what that preacher told me.

Then "god opened my eyes" and I actually saw those people around me, and actually listened to what was being said.

That same preacher actually accused our sin of causing 9/11.

I tried other churches, they were mostly the same. The basic gist of the religion, do good, don't do harm, be nice to one another, that stuck with me. The hateful parts, the "you're not right, you're going to burn in hell" stuff, that didn't.
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#2024 Jan 07 2012 at 2:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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Well Belkira I guess it's sharing time.

As a child, I don't believe that I ever believed in god, though it wasn't as if I rejected the idea either. I was in a state of unbelief where I didn't understand how it was possible to not be a Christian. I was born to a Lutheran family, went to a Lutheran Church, and attended a Lutheran private school, and when you're surrounded by so much of the same then it becomes difficult to see how anything could ever be different. I pretty much couldn't conceive of atheism.

I did realize that something didn't seem quite right. Church and Chapel were boring, not just to me, not just to the other kids, but I could see it in the adults as well. If this was truly some wonderful thing, why did it seem like a chore to nearly everyone? I learned nearly all my "bad language" from the other Christian kids in school, which didn't seem to mess just quite right with what I thought Christian behavior was supposed to be. One time at a water park, a girl came up to my friend and I to tell us how we needed Jesus in our hearts. While she coincidentally happened to be right about me, she wasn't for my friend. I saw how there wasn't some special aura or glow about a Christian person; they're just normal people. There was some factual stuff I wondered about late at night, like where all that water went when god flooded the earth or why dinosaurs weren't around anymore. But mostly, it was the way people talked about god to me that seemed to be a little off. It was different than how I had seen scientists talk on PBS. There was an earnestness in their voice. They didn't just want to show me something. They needed something from me for themselves. That in some way, me believing helped validate and reinforce their own beliefs.

It wasn't until I attended public school that I was made aware that something like atheism was possible and not merely a fictional concept like galactic imperial empires or illegal kryptonian immigrants.
#2025 Jan 07 2012 at 4:09 AM Rating: Good
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Kelvyquayo wrote:

I really do agree with you and I think that we ALWAYS get it wrong; but once God is put in the picture and opens your eyes you will get even the smallest glimpse of the Truth and once you see it you can never go back to seeing things the way you did before. I do indeed truly realize that to people that do not believe in God that this automatically puts us into the lunatic, self-deluded, fanatic department; and I once thought the same thing. I had all the same arguments again those wacky, arrogant, brain-washed Christians.
You really don't get it though. You were pagan, and thus predisposed to woo that didn't even have the weight of society backing it. This is just a natural progression as you get tired of hipster spirituality.

Edited, Jan 7th 2012 4:09am by Sweetums
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#2026 Jan 07 2012 at 5:44 AM Rating: Good
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I've never believed in a god, but I did believe in Santa Claus for a time. Lots of people describe the moment they found the truth in terms of biblical revelation, sweating and thrashing in their bed as Dad's ugly mug peeked around the door, sack in hand. For me, it dawned gradually. The clues were everywhere, it was simply a matter of putting them together. When I worked it out, I'd been suspicious for a while.

My school was pretty religious, but I never really thought of it as something people did earnestly. More as a kind of chore everyone had to do because life is full of bullsh*t. I think I was about 12 when I met my first crazy religious guy. At least he was more concise in his frothy-mouthed zeal than gbaji 2.0 up there.
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#2027 Jan 07 2012 at 6:39 AM Rating: Good
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Bardalicious wrote:
Kelvyquayo wrote:



tl;dr: I'm that special cross of narcissistic and crazy that everyone detests


Not everyone. I kinda enjoy those people.
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#2028 Jan 07 2012 at 6:54 AM Rating: Good
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I hate when people capitalise "truth".
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#2029 Jan 07 2012 at 7:25 AM Rating: Good
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Nilatai wrote:
I hate when people capitalise "truth".


You do the same with science. Unironically, sometimes, too.

I can tell.
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#2030 Jan 07 2012 at 8:28 AM Rating: Good
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Kavekk wrote:
Nilatai wrote:
I hate when people capitalise "truth".


You do the same with science. Unironically, sometimes, too.

I can tell.

Nuh uh, Science! gets and exclamation mark, too.
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#2031 Jan 07 2012 at 8:45 AM Rating: Decent
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..which, of course, is why Christians people who push religion are so @#%^ing annoying.
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#2032 Jan 07 2012 at 3:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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Kelvyquayo wrote:
You approach the whole thing as if it is absolutely false.


I am not saying the whole thing is absolutely false, and I am not going to be "butt hurt" because we don't agree. I can accept that your perceptions are yours, and I can never fully, 100%, completely understand them, as they are your perceptions, from looking back at the things you have witnessed in your life, and your interpretations of them.

Can you accept the same of me, and my perceptions of life, the universe and everything?
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#2033 Jan 07 2012 at 7:03 PM Rating: Good
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For me, a lot of it began to unravel when I left home as well. My parents were fairly good Catholics by most standards - my mother had been a postulate before she ran away from the convent to join the Army (she figured if she was getting treated like that she might as well get paid for it) and my father was a lecter, reading passages from the Bible every Sunday in his wonderful, rich, well-trained voice. Even so, my parents didn't always agree with everything the Church taught, and my mother was a big science and science fiction enthusiast. (Any mother who lets the six year old stay up til 1AM to watch Dr. Who with her on BBC is automatically the Coolest Mom On Earth.) I was trained as a cantor from the time I was twelve, and I learned to sing with a full voice that filled our large cathedral as my godmother, the organist, played music that ranged from 16th century hymns to 20th century high masses with a peppering of random black spirituals mixed in. Every Sunday, I stood in front of five hundred people and sang my heart out, and I believed what I sang.

When I struck out on my own to go to college 2 hours away when I was 18, I visited the little church on campus and I was devastated. Everything was wrong. The music was wrong. The priest was a Franciscan. The musicians played *gag* country music.

And I realized that I had believed in the music, and not in the religion.

It was rather devastating. I started researching paganism and for a good many years happy lived as a full fledged Discordian. I went Wiccan for a while before I decided that was just silly. Then I jumped ship to the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

And then a funny thing happened. I began to have doubts about my doubts. Little moments, here and there. And at some point I began to kind of believe again. No fancy being born again, no need to go preach the good news - there are many ways to salvation, and as long as someone eventually finds one way, that will be the right way for them.

These days, I consider myself a quasi-Christian agnostic. The Bible is a collection of oral traditions of the nomadic tribes of a lost civilization, full of wonderful fables and great advice and stories of a great man who changed the world. But it's not literal, and I pity anyone who lives in a world where the Bible is all they have ... because the higher power I believe in is not confined to a single book, but fills an entire universe.

Edited, Jan 7th 2012 8:05pm by catwho
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#2034 Jan 07 2012 at 8:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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Can you accept the same of me, and my perceptions of life, the universe and everything?
Only if the answer is 42.
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Edited, Mar 21st 2011 2:14pm by Darqflame Lock Thread: Because Lubriderm is silly... ~ de geso

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#2035 Jan 08 2012 at 3:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Professor stupidmonkey wrote:


Can you accept the same of me, and my perceptions of life, the universe and everything?


Absolutely!
I don't look down on anyone for what they do or don't believe. My rants on here are just rants. Perhaps it's like touching a hot plate even when you know it's hot. This is just a message board. In actual life I don't do this.
My goal here is, and always has been(even as a pagan), to make people think about things that they usually wouldn't think about; but even when I was ranting about reincarnation, magic, and the non-locality of the soul; people's heads didn't spin like they do when Jesus is involved.

Sweetums wrote:
You really don't get it though. You were pagan, and thus predisposed to woo that didn't even have the weight of society backing it.


This is where you don't get it. Pagan ways are what society backs though. Society is getting more and more hostile to Christianity every day.
It's kind of peculiar if you consider that all of the other mainstream religions are largely embraced by their societies. The Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, etc.. to those people their religion isn't the taboo that Christianity has become.

It is kind of amazing that kids under the age of 12 in this country now consider the words "Jesus Christ" to be swear words.
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#2036 Jan 08 2012 at 3:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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Kelvyquayo wrote:
It is kind of amazing that kids under the age of 12 in this country now consider the words "Jesus Christ" to be swear words.

Erm? The blasphemous use of them, perhaps. I don't know any <12 year old kids who would consider the use of "Jesus Christ", in reference to the Biblical figure, to be a "swear word". Was it Glenn Beck who converted you to Christianity?

Edited, Jan 8th 2012 3:16pm by Jophiel
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#2037 Jan 08 2012 at 3:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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Kelvyquayo wrote:

I don't look down on anyone for what they do or don't believe.
I doubt anyone actually buys this.

Quote:
Pagan ways are what society backs though. Society is getting more and more hostile to Christianity every day.
Are you really going to play the persecution card?
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#2038 Jan 08 2012 at 3:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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Kelvyquayo wrote:
The Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, etc.. to those people their religion isn't the taboo that Christianity has become.



Smiley: laugh

That's funny.

Most christians think that because we make laws against forcing children to pray in school and laws to keep your religion out of our lawmaking that it's suddenly "taboo." Smiley: rolleyes
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#2039 Jan 08 2012 at 3:51 PM Rating: Good
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Bardalicious wrote:
Kelvyquayo wrote:

I don't look down on anyone for what they do or don't believe.
I doubt anyone actually buys this.

Quote:
Pagan ways are what society backs though. Society is getting more and more hostile to Christianity every day.
Are you really going to play the persecution card?

You're not really surprised, are you? Smiley: dubious
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#2040 Jan 08 2012 at 4:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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As the forum's token Catholic, the religion in the US that co-shares the bulk of the "OMG Religion is so EEVVVIIILLL!!!" whining in the US (along with generic "Southern evangelicals), let me say that it is embarrassing to see Christians whine and cry about how persecuted they are in the United States.

I also picture Jesus saying "Oh, and there's one thing I want you guys to take away from all this: If you enter a land where sometimes people react in a harmless negative fashion to your faith, maybe not letting you put a statue of me in a public park or not respecting my birthday the right way at the greengrocers, be sure to cry and bitch about how unfair life is because, man, that's what it's all about.."

Edited, Jan 8th 2012 4:06pm by Jophiel
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#2041 Jan 08 2012 at 4:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
As the forum's token Catholic, the religion in the US that co-shares the bulk of the "OMG Religion is so EEVVVIIILLL!!!" whining in the US (along with generic "Southern evangelicals), let me say that it is embarrassing to see Christians whine and cry about how persecuted they are in the United States.

I also picture Jesus saying "Oh, and there's one thing I want you guys to take away from all this: If you enter a land where sometimes people react in a harmless negative fashion to your faith, maybe not letting you put a statue of me in a public park or not respecting my birthday the right way at the greengrocers, be sure to cry and bitch about how unfair life is because, man, that's what it's all about.."


Yeah, whatever happened to "turn the other cheek" and all that jazz? Christians are supposed to halfway want to be persecuted, because standing by their faith through persecution means they are resolute and stuff.
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#2042 Jan 08 2012 at 4:35 PM Rating: Excellent
Screenshot
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Edited, Mar 21st 2011 2:14pm by Darqflame Lock Thread: Because Lubriderm is silly... ~ de geso

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#2043 Jan 08 2012 at 4:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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Kelvyquayo wrote:
Society is getting more and more hostile to Christianity every day.

Showing less favoritism is not quite the same as increased hostility.
#2044 Jan 08 2012 at 5:29 PM Rating: Excellent
Allegory wrote:
Kelvyquayo wrote:
Society is getting more and more hostile to Christianity every day.

Showing less favoritism is not quite the same as increased hostility.

Also what joph said.
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#2045 Jan 08 2012 at 5:43 PM Rating: Excellent
I don't know any atheists or agnostics personally that have a hatred for Christianity, they just don't want to be bothered by it.
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Edited, Mar 21st 2011 2:14pm by Darqflame Lock Thread: Because Lubriderm is silly... ~ de geso

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I know what a glory hole is, but I wasn't sure what the business part was in reference to.

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#2046 Jan 08 2012 at 5:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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Duke Lubriderm wrote:
I don't know any atheists or agnostics personally that have a hatred for Christianity

Are you new to the internet?
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#2047 Jan 08 2012 at 5:52 PM Rating: Decent
Jophiel wrote:
Duke Lubriderm wrote:
I don't know any atheists or agnostics personally that have a hatred for Christianity

Are you new to the internet?
No, just someone who doesn't use internet forums solely to figure what people are about. I think most people are more open minded when they don't have a keyboard in front of them. Maybe I'm just a hopeless romantic in that regard.
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Edited, Mar 21st 2011 2:14pm by Darqflame Lock Thread: Because Lubriderm is silly... ~ de geso

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I know what a glory hole is, but I wasn't sure what the business part was in reference to.

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I don't use them solely as well, either. But I do use them to broaden by views of what others think beyond my own real-life circle of folks.
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I think most people are more open minded when they don't have a keyboard in front of them

The cynic in me says that they're more honest behind a veil of anonymity. Smiley: frown
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#2049 Jan 08 2012 at 8:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'll freely admit I unfairly criticize Christianity more harshly than it deserves and more so than other religions. Part of that's proximity, and part of that's a lot of terrible personal experiences that objectively don't represent the whole.
#2050 Jan 09 2012 at 5:08 AM Rating: Decent
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Christianity I think gets a bad rap more so now than in the past for one reason, and one reason only. When Father bad touch gets caught bad touching, the church steps in and protects him. Have yet to see the pope come on down from his castle of gold to publicly decry his priests molesting little kids, then again why would he with all the Vatican Alter boys hanging around all day.

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HEY GOOGLE. @#%^ OFF YOU. @#%^ YOUR BULLsh*t SEARCH ENGINE IN ITS @#%^ING sh*tTY BINARY ASS. ALL DAY LONG.

#2051 Jan 09 2012 at 6:12 AM Rating: Good
I'm pretty sure that there are millions of Protestants who are disgusted with the Catholic Church, too.
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Edited, Mar 21st 2011 2:14pm by Darqflame Lock Thread: Because Lubriderm is silly... ~ de geso

Almalieque wrote:
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