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Ron Paul destroys Romney and Perry in straw poll victory. Follow

#102 Sep 20 2011 at 7:40 PM Rating: Good
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
They're not a fad, raw materials will always trump the value of currency. I don't care if it's oil, natural gas, gold, you name it.


Except during a deflationary cycle...
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#103 Sep 20 2011 at 7:57 PM Rating: Good
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
I think if you understood the value of gold/silver, you could of answered this yourself. The gold standard is what kept our value of the dollar balanced. Ever since the gold standard was taken away, hyper inflation has run rampant. There is obviously a direct correlation between gold and the dollar.


Except that this is simply not true. I know it's popular to say and popular to repeat and people who say this think they know something that other people don't, and that makes them feel special or something, but it's just plain not true. Did you bother to check the link showing US inflation levels over a longish period of time? Notice something interesting? It's when we went off the gold standard, and when we instituted the Fed that our currency actually become more stable.

It's still had fluxuations, but even the worst time period (during the Great Depression) is pretty much normal for the period of time prior to leaving the gold standard. I just think you believe this because you've been told this, but you've never actually bothered to check and see if it's true. I just don't know how more clearly to state this. What you are saying is purely, simply, and provably false.

There are certainly issues with the way the Fed manages things, and it does not always make the best decisions, but overall since adopting that system of managing our currency, the US economy has done much better and been much more stable than it was before.

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As for your question, gold has endured for six thousand years. Sure a country here or there might make some bad choices, but the standard didn't go away. Our federal reserve is a total scam. They print money based on their profit margins so they can loan out more or give money to companies for bailouts.


First step when assessing a conspiracy theory: Does it make sense? What motivation do a bunch of bankers have to do this? Remember, their profits are based on dollars as well. Think about it. It's in their best interest to make the thing that they own a lot of actually retain its value. Again, it's not perfect, but it's better than any other system we've come up with yet.


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Either way, the people get taxed and suffer a drop in quality of life.


Yes. And I'm not sure what you think this has to do with the Federal Reserve Banking System? The Fed doesn't have anything to do with taxes. You're mixing up two very different things. Let me be very clear. I agree that GSEs have the potential to make really bad decisions and be influenced by politics rather than sound business. But that doesn't mean that they must do these things, or that they are, and it certainly doesn't mean that some alternative is always going to be better.

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Why do you think the GOP want to cut social security, medicare, education, the FDA, and other programs? It's because the bankers(Fed) blew all the money on these failures and now we have to tighten the belt on our common citizens.


Huh? As a Republican, I can tell you that's not even close to the reason. To the degree that we do want to cut those things, it has nothing to do with banking. It has to do with the cost of the programs themselves. That's not going to change regardless of what our currency is based on. The government spends too much money on those things. Again, I suspect you are somehow confusing the Federal Reserve with the Federal Government. Despite sharing the same word in their names, they are *not* the same things.

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It's ironic how much of a tax break oil companies get and how it's taboo to tax large corporations even though it's small businesses that hire most people in a strong economy.But they will cut ever program that benefits struggling Americans and continue to bail out these crooked companies.


WTF do tax rates have to do with the Federal Reserve? Seriously, at least keep your conspiracies straight.

Edited, Sep 20th 2011 6:58pm by gbaji
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#104 Sep 20 2011 at 7:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
I think if you understood the value of gold/silver, you could of answered this yourself. The gold standard is what kept our value of the dollar balanced. Ever since the gold standard was taken away, hyper inflation has run rampant. There is obviously a direct correlation between gold and the dollar.


...Or we have created wealth that dwarfed the implicit value of gold as a monetary resource. Part of this created by the liquidity that is generated from a non-zero sum financial resource pool.

ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
As for your question, gold has endured for six thousand years. Sure a country here or there might make some bad choices, but the standard didn't go away. Our federal reserve is a total scam. They print money based on their profit margins so they can loan out more or give money to companies for bailouts. Either way, the people get taxed and suffer a drop in quality of life. Why do you think the GOP want to cut social security, medicare, education, the FDA, and other programs? It's because the bankers(Fed) blew all the money on these failures and now we have to tighten the belt on our common citizens.


Actually it existed for far longer, if you are talking about coinage that has been around for 2~3k years.

And the barter system endured for far longer than coinage. It still doesn't mean we should go back to it.

The GOP wants to cut social services because that's what the GOP does, it's a main tenet of their platform, not because bankers did anything, wise or unwise, with public monies. If we all had golden thrones and lynx fur coats they would still want to cut social services.

ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
It's ironic how much of a tax break oil companies get and how it's taboo to tax large corporations even though it's small businesses that hire most people in a strong economy.But they will cut ever program that benefits struggling Americans and continue to bail out these crooked companies.


That's because they have political donors. One of the problems associated with a representative democracy, rather than a direct democracy. (Not to say direct democracy doesn't have other more colorful problems)


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#105 Sep 20 2011 at 7:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hint: When Gbaji, Joph and I all come to the same independent conclusions, disproving your claim, you may want to re-evaluate your position.

Edited, Sep 20th 2011 9:59pm by Timelordwho
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#106 Sep 20 2011 at 8:29 PM Rating: Good
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Timelordwho wrote:
ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
I think if you understood the value of gold/silver, you could of answered this yourself. The gold standard is what kept our value of the dollar balanced. Ever since the gold standard was taken away, hyper inflation has run rampant. There is obviously a direct correlation between gold and the dollar.


...Or we have created wealth that dwarfed the implicit value of gold as a monetary resource. Part of this created by the liquidity that is generated from a non-zero sum financial resource pool.


This. 1000x this. The reason rare(ish) metals were historically used for coinage is because this made them less easy to counterfeit (or less harmful if they were). There is no other intrinsic reason to do this. And for most of the history of man, they were sufficient methods of currency because the rates of economic growth were relatively small and could be matched to the quantity of coins within the economy without much difficulty.

But industrialization completely blows that model out of the water. Without a means to adjust the amount of currency in the system based on economic trends, you alternatively end out stifling economic growth, or having wild swings in valuation. And some of the valuation problems are "odd" to say the least. You basically have fewer tools to manage or smooth out changes in your economy. I suppose if someone has bought into conspiracies that these tools are used to deliberately ***** up the economy by manipulating the money supply, you might still think that a gold standard is better.

But for everyone else, who's looked at the before/after picture a bit closer, it's pretty clear that since adopting the Federal Reserve system and leaving the gold standard behind, our economy has been much more stable.
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#107 Sep 20 2011 at 8:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Timelordwho wrote:
Hint: When Gbaji, Joph and I all come to the same independent conclusions, disproving your claim, you may want to re-evaluate your position.

Edited, Sep 20th 2011 9:59pm by Timelordwho


I think your right. I'll have to do some research to find more answers. Thanks.
#108 Sep 20 2011 at 8:56 PM Rating: Good
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
Timelordwho wrote:
Hint: When Gbaji, Joph and I all come to the same independent conclusions, disproving your claim, you may want to re-evaluate your position.

Edited, Sep 20th 2011 9:59pm by Timelordwho


I think your right. I'll have to do some research to find more answers. Thanks.


No problem. If you need to know what to look for, just ask.
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#109 Sep 20 2011 at 10:01 PM Rating: Decent
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I keep reading this thread's title as "strawman polls".

That is all.
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we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
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