Man arrested at 9/11 memorial for speaking out. Follow

So in this thread Ron Paul warned of is the attack, but in another thread, it was an inside job? Make up your mind.


Edited, Sep 15th 2011 10:38am by Lubriderm

AHAHAHAHA, @#%^ man, the evidence was there. Your harping on about it is exactly the same. In both cases they were thoroughly examined and dismissed except by the nuts.

Edited, Sep 15th 2011 3:10pm by Xsarus

While reading this thread "American Idiot" by Green Day came up on my iTunes shuffle.

God proven.



Edited, Sep 15th 2011 3:57pm by Bardalicious

According to this definition that you just made up?

Oh. Okay.

Truthers have reasons why their insanity doesn't count, either. That's why you don't ask lunatics whether or not they're lunatics.

I'd like to see Buzz Aldrin slug a few of them.

I'm going to completely ignore the line a jokes that involves pointing out how he provided a birth certificate from the very beginning and people kept modifying their demands each time he met them.

Instead I'm going to focus on that last part. It seems to me that you accept that he has at some point proven to your satisfaction his natural U.S. citizenship to you, correct?

Ok, here's the thing. To the majority of birthers, he still hasn't. It may no longer be profitable to show them dancing around crazily in the news, but absolutely nothing has changed since the Donald Trump fiasco. If I drive south on the highway near where I live I will still see a sign that says "Where's the birth certificate" paid for by world net daily. He might have strangely convinced you, but everyone who doubted him stills doubts him. There is no threshold of proof that will please them.

Edited, Sep 15th 2011 7:53pm by Allegory

I never understand why people can get upset over someone else saying something to the point of banning it (Ok, I used to understand it, but this way makes me feel like a big boy). As I understand it certain things like yelling fire in a movie theater (easiest example to sight I aim low) are banned due to inciting a panic. To me, it feels like expressing your opinion, even if it is unpopular and at an emotional sight, should be protected. Westbro picketing funerals is unpleasant but I have come to realize that we really shouldn't be exclusive with who gets to say what and where. Give someone an inch and they will use our legal system to get a mile.

I mean, if the guy was getting in people's faces and attempting to incite a riot, sure, that is a sign to at least remove him and restrain him from the area (unless he agrees to not start an uproar (in court)) until he agrees to certain terms. However, if he is just standing around shouting off crazy things then he isn't hurting anyone. If someone gets their feelings hurt, well, they should grow up.


Very unrelated (different country, still about rights to speech) but still quasi-relevant: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/sep/13/internet-troll-jailed-mocking-teenagers

The dude was an @#%^ but again, you have the right to be an @#%^. The government shouldn't be principal punishing us for hurting others feelings.

Edited, Sep 16th 2011 2:52am by decayed

The demands for a full long form birth certificate were consistent and never changed. For the vast majority of people who cared at all about this issue, it was always about a belief that the documentation he provided was not sufficient to prove natural born citizenship status.



Of course. Me and everyone who isn't a nutty conspiracy theorist. The problem is that you are conflating the two groups. The fact that there exist a small number of people for whom no evidence will ever suffice does not invalidate the view of a larger group that there is such evidence and it could easily be examined, but for some reason it's being hidden instead. Once that was no longer the case, that group was satisfied and moved on.



Who? And aren't you playing with the term "birther" now? If before Obama provided his long form birth certificate every single person demanding that he do so was labeled a "birther" (as I was on many occasions), then I think it's overwhelmingly true that the vast majority of "birthers" were satisfied by the long form birth certificate. If you're now attempting to change the definition of birther to mean only the conspiracy theorists for whom no evidence will ever suffice, then that's a whole different story. I was never a member of that group, and most of the people demanding to see Obana's full birth certificate were never a member of that group.

In either case, my own position on the issue was never that of a conspiracy theorist, right? So either most "birthers" had a legitimate question which had a real answer *or* most of those who were labeled "birthers" never were. Pick one.




Who is this "everyone" you imagine to exist? I have not heard a single person make a claim that Obama isn't a natural born citizen since he presented his long form birth certificate. I'm pretty sure you haven't either. You have to actively go looking for the small number of true nutters to find anyone still trying to make that argument. Hell. When was the last time we had a thread about this? When was the last time it was mentioned in the news?


I think you are grossly misrepresenting (or just plain misunderstand yourself) the true numbers of people for whom the only issue they had was an honest belief that the documentation Obama initially provided was not sufficient. Do you have any evidence that there are even close to as many people today who even care about this anymore? Because the near total lack of *any* mention of this after years of nearly constant talk about it would seem to suggest you are wrong.

Washington Post poll immediately after the release puts it at 10%, down from 20% a year ago. For Republicans and Conservatives the percentage drop was similar, cut in half.

I'll retract my comment "To the majority of birthers, he still hasn't," as inaccurate if you'd similar do so with "I think it's overwhelmingly true that the vast majority of "birthers" were satisfied by the long form birth certificate."

lol @ Joph.



The only people who ever cared about this were f*cking morons who were trying to distract from issues actually worth talking about. He provided the legal document from the start. What people wanted to see, for some stupid, absurd reason, was the legally invalid document.

Can you even find one more recent? Or maybe the number has shrunk so low that no one bothers to poll on it? This was one week after the release of the long form certificate. You don't think it might have gone down to pretty close to zero by now?



You're playing with the word "birther" again. I was talking about the full set of those who believed that he should disclose the full long form birth certificate to prove natural born citizenship status. That's what my position was all along. So if I'm called a birther (and I was and still am), then your statement must be applied to that full group and not just those who believed he wasn't born in the US (which is what the poll actually asked).

I was talking about that larger group. My statement was about that larger group. And the vast majority of that group has been satisfied by the long form certificate. If this wasn't true, you'd still be reading news articles about it every other week. I'm not sure what the hell you want. This is such a contrived argument that I don't know even where to start with it. The massive dropping of the issue is proof that it *wasn't* a crazy conspiracy theory. There was an obtainable amount of evidence which would satisfy those people. And it did. End of story.

I'd just as likely assume that it went up given the amount of time people have had to contrive reasons why it's insufficient. I'm fine with a 3 month old poll, and if you want to assert that it's gone down even more then the onus is on you to find one showing that.

But it isn't the larger group as the poll shows. After the long form birth certificate was released it still wasn't good enough for half of those who originally asserted he was born outside the U.S.

It looks like you're trying to make the point that most of the people who wanted only the long form certificate were convinced when he released the long form certificate, in which case duh--it's an oxymoron. All of the people who only wanted the long form certificate were convinced after it was released by definition. If they weren't convinced after the release, then clearly it was never all they needed in the first place. That isn't any more meaningful than saying all people who are going to vote Democrat did vote Democrat.