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Man arrested at 9/11 memorial for speaking out. Follow

#1 Sep 14 2011 at 1:48 PM Rating: Decent
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No matter what your opinion on the cover story of 9/11, America is supposed to the land of liberty. Our main liberty is supposed to be the freedom of speech and this bill was of course created for unpopular speech. This particular story wasn't covered much on the "mainstream news" although I did find a few clips on FOX about it. It's about this man who has a few signs and protested against the "truth" of the 9/11 cover story. It's ironic that this man was arrested for public speech and hate groups like the KKK are allowed to speak publicly in NYC. Something is serious wrong with our country if issues like this continue to happen. I'm posting this video with this guy's story in hopes more people will wake up.



Edited, Sep 14th 2011 2:59pm by ShadowedgeFFXI
#2 Sep 14 2011 at 1:58 PM Rating: Good
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I like how he thinks Freedom of Speech means he can say whatever he wants whenever and wherever he wants. That KKK you so thoughtfully decided to include get permits and are on incredibly short leashes when they do their little thing.

Edited, Sep 14th 2011 3:59pm by lolgaxe
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#3 Sep 14 2011 at 2:01 PM Rating: Default
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lolgaxe wrote:
I like how he thinks Freedom of Speech means he can say whatever he wants whenever and wherever he wants. That KKK you so thoughtfully decided to include get permits and are on incredibly short leashes when they do their little thing.



Umm... you realize that's because they are a hate group and will attract violence, right? It's a mob scene when the KKK comes to town and they have to clear roads like a parade. A single person in this case doesn't need a permit. Nice try, but epic fail.

Edited, Sep 14th 2011 3:02pm by ShadowedgeFFXI
#4 Sep 14 2011 at 2:02 PM Rating: Good
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
A single person in this case doesn't need a permit. Nice try, but epic fail.
Oh my god that is so CUTE! You combined ill informed conspiracy nut with internet hipster!
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#5 Sep 14 2011 at 2:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Freedom of speech does not include requiring someone else to pay for the microphone.
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#6 Sep 14 2011 at 2:05 PM Rating: Default
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lolgaxe wrote:
Oh my god that is so CUTE! You combined ill informed conspiracy nut with internet hipster!


What are you talking about or are you just trolling as usual? Freedom of speech is our right and this man was arrested for it. It's not a conspiracy, but it is a miscarriage of justice. If you can't see that, I don't know what to tell you.

gbaji wrote:
Freedom of speech does not include requiring someone else to pay for the microphone.


Huh?

Edited, Sep 14th 2011 3:06pm by ShadowedgeFFXI
#7 Sep 14 2011 at 2:06 PM Rating: Good
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ShadowEdgeFFXI wrote:
What are you talking about or are you just trolling as usual?
Well, considering what I'm saying is the honest truth, you just dismissing it as "trolling" sounds suspiciously like what you claim other people are doing to all your claims. Interesting rebuttal.
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#8 Sep 14 2011 at 2:08 PM Rating: Good
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Not gonna watch a video at work, so I'm just guessing that he was at the site and saying that 9/11 was an inside-job, or something of the like. Apologies if that's wrong.

Considering the date, isn't it fair to say that this was an attempt to incite violence? Saying stuff like that on the 10th anniversary, with the memorial just opening, is asking for a fight.
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#9 Sep 14 2011 at 2:10 PM Rating: Excellent
a successful attempt to incite violence, as someone got violent. Seeing as there seem to be no other sources for this it's hard to say anything meaningful.
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#10 Sep 14 2011 at 2:12 PM Rating: Default
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lolgaxe wrote:
Well, considering what I'm saying is the honest truth, you just dismissing it as "trolling" sounds suspiciously like what you claim other people are doing to all your claims. Interesting rebuttal.


You're right about the KKK, I admitted that. However, you're dead wrong for a lone person being required to have a permit to protest. People do it all the time only this time it was "unpopular" enough to get a trumped up charge. I can't believe you of all people aren't just as **** off as I am. You claim to be in the military, you should know what our rights are dude especially because our prime function is to defend the country which includes our rights. That's why I said you sounded like you were trolling my post. This isn't a gray issue, this is a solid infraction against the first amendment.
#11 Sep 14 2011 at 2:14 PM Rating: Excellent
It'd be easier to get upset if we had any information besides two conspiracy nuts ranting.
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#12 Sep 14 2011 at 2:14 PM Rating: Good
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Freedom of speech does not include requiring someone else to pay for the microphone.


Huh?


I don't know the details of this case (no audio on my work computer, so your video interview is kinda useless), but the general principle is that your right to free speech ends when it starts to cost someone else in some way. If all this guy was doing was standing in a crowd with a sign or something, he wouldn't have been arrested. So either theres some massive conspiracy to conceal the truth which involves every single random police officer arresting someone everyone else would have ignored anyway *or* this guy was doing something more disruptive to those around him than just expressing free speech.

One of those things seems far more likely than the other.
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#13 Sep 14 2011 at 2:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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Sir Xsarus wrote:
a successful attempt to incite violence, as someone got violent. Seeing as there seem to be no other sources for this it's hard to say anything meaningful.


Well okay then.

So, on a more interesting tangent, what's with people trying to pick fights on the NYC subway? Been encountering this a lot lately. There's a very aggressive bum that I see on the PATH every couple weeks or so. His pitch is that you should give him money, because he's trying to be honest about getting by, and doesn't want to have to mug people. Thing is, the way that he says it sounds like a threat, so everyone just avoids him. That in turn makes him mad, and he starts raising his voice and telling everyone that they're going to go to hell, etc. etc. Fun stuff.

Yesterday this drunk was walking down the middle of the subway cars (for no apparent reason) while they were moving, and intentionally bumping and shoving people hard. He kept saying "Move out the way." and "Speak fucking English." to anybody who looked foreign, even if they weren't talking. When he went past me, the train rocked, and he fell into me since he wasn't holding on to anything. 'Cept as he did it, he deliberately karate-chopped me in the neck, then tried to half-pass it off as an attempt to steady himself.

I glared at him, but thought better of anything else. Dude was itching for someone to go back at him and start something.

Crazy drunks.
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#14 Sep 14 2011 at 2:20 PM Rating: Default
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Sir Xsarus wrote:
a successful attempt to incite violence, as someone got violent. Seeing as there seem to be no other sources for this it's hard to say anything meaningful.


That's not the point though. The first amendment is there to protect unpopular speech. It's not there to be censored when people feel like it. You talk about how this was done to incite violence in which I disagree. It wasn't racist like those Minutemen like to do bashing Mexicans. Now that's the far right spectrum of what might get you locked up. I can cite numerous situations where a person has spoken out and some people got upset at them. It doesn't matter, the person being upset and resorting to violence is the one in the wrong. It doesn't matter if the protester aggravated him to rage, it's not grounds to block the first amendment. Your logic is like saying beer caused me to get violence and smack my wife around because she made me angry. It's your choice to get angry and the person who was upset could of walked away or ignored it.

The point of this point is to talk about the miscarriage of justice to lock up a person for freedom of speech.
#15 Sep 14 2011 at 2:20 PM Rating: Good
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
You claim to be in the military, you should know what our rights are dude especially because our prime function is to defend the country which includes our rights.
I know our rights don't mean we can exercise them wherever and whenever we feel like it. You know, like my right to have a gun doesn't mean I can just walk around everywhere I feel like with it. I have a right to defend myself, but if someone shoves me and I shoot them in the face, I'm probably not going to get a "self defense" call.
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#16 Sep 14 2011 at 2:22 PM Rating: Good
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"Fire!" in a crowded theater, etc.
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#17 Sep 14 2011 at 2:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
I don't know the details of this case (no audio on my work computer, so your video interview is kinda useless)

Ditto. I made a game effort to locate another source but everything links back to and relies on this video. Somehow I don't think I'm going to get the whole story here.
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#18 Sep 14 2011 at 2:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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Eske Esquire wrote:
"Fire!" in a crowded theater, etc.
I've also found out, and in no uncertain terms, that the freedom of religion doesn't mean you can practice Mayan sacrifices. That was a kooky fun case. Smiley: oyvey
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#19 Sep 14 2011 at 2:24 PM Rating: Excellent
Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
I don't know the details of this case (no audio on my work computer, so your video interview is kinda useless)

Ditto. I made a game effort to locate another source but everything links back to and relies on this video. Somehow I don't think I'm going to get the whole story here.
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#20 Sep 14 2011 at 2:26 PM Rating: Good
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
Nice try, but epic fail.

Smiley: facepalm
#21 Sep 14 2011 at 2:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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This particular story wasn't covered much on the "mainstream news" although I did find a few clips on FOX about it.


I've never understood people saying this. FOX News is the most popular cable news network in America. It's the definition of "mainstream news."
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#22 Sep 14 2011 at 2:28 PM Rating: Decent
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gbaji wrote:


I don't know the details of this case (no audio on my work computer, so your video interview is kinda useless), but the general principle is that your right to free speech ends when it starts to cost someone else in some way. If all this guy was doing was standing in a crowd with a sign or something, he wouldn't have been arrested. So either theres some massive conspiracy to conceal the truth which involves every single random police officer arresting someone everyone else would have ignored anyway *or* this guy was doing something more disruptive to those around him than just expressing free speech.

One of those things seems far more likely than the other.


That's just not true. There are accounts of people being treated poorly by police for far less infractions. This guy wasn't attacking people, only saying 9/11 was an inside job. As for your analysis, you're over thinking things. The police don't all have to be on the conspiracy. How do you know they aren't there to deal with troublemakers like this guy. The content of what was said by this man is irrelevant. A man was arrested for doing nothing. This happens all along. Are you honestly going to tell me our police force does everything by the book? maybe they just wanted to take this guy off the street so they wouldn't have a bigger mess if he caused a riot. Kinda of like preventative action. The bottom line is this isn't legal and the man arrested will fight and win this clear abuse of power.
#23 Sep 14 2011 at 2:28 PM Rating: Good
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LockeColeMA wrote:
Quote:
This particular story wasn't covered much on the "mainstream news" although I did find a few clips on FOX about it.
I've never understood people saying this. FOX News is the most popular cable news network in America. It's the definition of "mainstream news."
They have The Simpsons, Family Guy, and American Dad make fun of Fox and conservatives, which means they're unbiased. You don't see CNN or MSNBC making cartoons mocking them, do you?
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#24 Sep 14 2011 at 2:28 PM Rating: Good
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I can say this: Let's assume for the sake of argument that this guy was just peacefully and legally waving his sign and saying his words and some cop decided to cuff him and take him in.

Sure, the cop shouldn't do that. Ok, now what? The guy gets a court hearing, right? The guy can appeal to one of the organizations that make free speech their bread & butter. It's not as though he's lacking in options and he wouldn't be the first or last person wrongly arrested. That's why we have a justice system that goes beyond "throw 'im in the hole".

So what's supposed to be the take away from the OP? Righteous outrage just 'cause?
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#25 Sep 14 2011 at 2:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
LockeColeMA wrote:
Quote:
This particular story wasn't covered much on the "mainstream news" although I did find a few clips on FOX about it.
I've never understood people saying this. FOX News is the most popular cable news network in America. It's the definition of "mainstream news."
They have The Simpsons, Family Guy, and American Dad make fun of Fox and conservatives, which means they're unbiased. You don't see CNN or MSNBC making cartoons mocking them, do you?

FOX News =/= FOX
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#26 Sep 14 2011 at 2:30 PM Rating: Decent
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You guys still have rights down there?
huh learn something new everyday.
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#27 Sep 14 2011 at 2:31 PM Rating: Good
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LockeColeMA wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
LockeColeMA wrote:
Quote:
This particular story wasn't covered much on the "mainstream news" although I did find a few clips on FOX about it.
I've never understood people saying this. FOX News is the most popular cable news network in America. It's the definition of "mainstream news."
They have The Simpsons, Family Guy, and American Dad make fun of Fox and conservatives, which means they're unbiased. You don't see CNN or MSNBC making cartoons mocking them, do you?
FOX News =/= FOX
You fall for the conspiracy, too? Smiley: facepalm
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#28 Sep 14 2011 at 2:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
You fall for the conspiracy, too? Smiley: facepalm

Smiley: tinfoilhat
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#29 Sep 14 2011 at 2:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
I can say this: Let's assume for the sake of argument that this guy was just peacefully and legally waving his sign and saying his words and some cop decided to cuff him and take him in.

Sure, the cop shouldn't do that. Ok, now what? The guy gets a court hearing, right? The guy can appeal to one of the organizations that make free speech their bread & butter. It's not as though he's lacking in options and he wouldn't be the first or last person wrongly arrested. That's why we have a justice system that goes beyond "throw 'im in the hole".

So what's supposed to be the take away from the OP? Righteous outrage just 'cause?


Pretty much this. I agree that any peaceful protest absolutely shouldn't have gotten him arrested. But that's an issue with the cop who arrested him, one would assume. Courts don't follow cops around town, to tell them if they are violating someone's rights or not.

If he goes to court and is found guilty for some stupid charge, solely so as to try and discipline him for doing something within his rights, then I would be **** off about it. Right now, I don't care that much. ESPECIALLY since I know nothing about the case.

And, quite frankly, we have many, many more horrible violations of rights in arrests everyday. This guy was arrested at the memorial site? Yeah, go fifteen blocks to the east and notice the black guy getting arrested for little reason other than the fact that he's a black guy.
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#30 Sep 14 2011 at 2:53 PM Rating: Decent
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
This guy wasn't attacking people, only saying 9/11 was an inside job.


As Joph said, if this is actually the case, then he's got plenty of legal avenues to pursue. I'm just pretty skeptical that this is *all* he was doing.

Quote:
As for your analysis, you're over thinking things. The police don't all have to be on the conspiracy. How do you know they aren't there to deal with troublemakers like this guy.


Because (and I'm going out on a limb here since I haven't seen the video), the whole point of this is to claim some kind of targeted persecution of this particular guy because of what he was saying. If the police were treating everyone who was simply expressing their free speech the same, then the story isn't really about keeping the truth about 9/11 from being heard, is it?

Again, I'm going out on a limb, but I'm betting that's why you care about this story, right? If this guy had been waving a sign about abortion, or darfour, or freeing Nelson Mandela, or bringing back Menudo, you wouldn't care or even have noticed. It's not a conspiracy theory if it doesn't include persecution of your own specific pet theory about something. Thus, your whole argument rests on the assumption that the police did single him out for what he was saying, and not how he was saying it.

It's not a story otherwise, right? Where's the follow up showing hundreds of other people also arrested for speaking out about their various causes as well?

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The content of what was said by this man is irrelevant.


It's not irrelevant to you though, is it?
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#31 Sep 14 2011 at 3:02 PM Rating: Good
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Are we discounting the possibility that he was actually taken into protective custody to keep him from being curb stomped?
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#32 Sep 14 2011 at 3:04 PM Rating: Default
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Here is another video that has audio for this video.





"Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers."
#33 Sep 14 2011 at 3:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Are we discounting the possibility that he was actually taken into protective custody to keep him from being curb stomped?


Ugh seriously. I would have; rather get sued later by the guy then have some bomber go undetected while I'm trying to keep granny from tearing him a new one.
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#34ShadowedgeFFXI, Posted: Sep 14 2011 at 3:11 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Obviously this isn't a huge problem yet. It occasionally happens and when it does it's important that we can stand up for our rights so it doesn't happen again. The police are always making mistakes like this. I don't have a clue why you haven't realize that little fact.
#35 Sep 14 2011 at 3:14 PM Rating: Excellent
Sure, and he has avenues to stand up for his rights, so I'm not going to waste my time getting all outraged at an isolated incident.
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#36 Sep 14 2011 at 3:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
The police are always making mistakes like this. I don't have a clue why you haven't realize that little fact.

The realization of this fact is the principle reason why no one else is going ape over this singular event. Cops are humans; they make errors or else can be actively malicious. We try to have a system that allows recourse when this happens.
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#37 Sep 14 2011 at 3:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
The police are always making mistakes like this. I don't have a clue why you haven't realize that little fact.

The realization of this fact is the principle reason why no one else is going ape over this singular event. Cops are humans; they make errors or else can be actively malicious. We try to have a system that allows recourse when this happens.


Aye, and I think I'll save my righteous indignation for when they do it to somebody who isn't an idiotic asshole.
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#38 Sep 14 2011 at 3:21 PM Rating: Good
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
Obviously this isn't a huge problem yet. It occasionally happens and when it does it's important that we can stand up for our rights so it doesn't happen again. The police are always making mistakes like this. I don't have a clue why you haven't realize that little fact.


Trust me, I'm well aware that the police make mistakes. And if they did in this case, this guy has the means to seek redress. My issue is with turning this into a presumed attack on "the truth" about 9/11. Deliberately making a scene in a high security area so as to draw police attention does not magically make what you are saying more true than it was before.


And it's *that* fallacy I'm more interested in addressing.
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#39 Sep 14 2011 at 3:21 PM Rating: Decent
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If he cares about having his rights violated by that cop, he'll sue the NYPD. If the courts agree that his rights were violated, they'll rule in his favor.

I can't help but feel that he couldn't possibly have been the only protester at the memorial, considering how many loons are outside the White House on a daily basis. That makes me think that he was doing something he really shouldn't have been. Whether or not that was within his rights is still not something we know either, of course.

So, all in all, we still don't have enough info.

Hell, we don't even know if he actually had a warrant out on him already, and just drew attention to himself by protesting, leading to his arrest.
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#40 Sep 14 2011 at 3:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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idiggory wrote:
I can't help but feel that he couldn't possibly have been the only protester at the memorial, considering how many loons are outside the White House on a daily basis.
I was there for guard duty, due to the elevated threat risk. I was "one of the guys with rifles," as one of those videos put it. There were a few people talking about conspiracies, but overall no one screaming at the top of their lungs. And carrying a backpack. Not suspicious at all at elevated threat levels, by the way. I didn't see this guy, though. Anyway, it was a pretty solemn, quiet day. Well, as solemn and quiet as downtown Manhattan can get without planes.

*Oh, I brought up protective custody because several people were taken into protective custody.

Edited, Sep 14th 2011 5:27pm by lolgaxe
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#41 Sep 14 2011 at 4:08 PM Rating: Default
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I stopped listening after this guy said "9/11 propaganda event" a second time. True, his arrest seems to be somewhat unjustified, but I'd have been happy to see him silenced if I was there. Those "truther" tinfoil hats have no class, no tact, and have no respect for those who died.

Also, posting an Alex Jones video, that's a paddlin'.
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#42 Sep 14 2011 at 5:09 PM Rating: Default
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Back in the day if you said **** like he did not only would the crowd kick his **** so would the police and then the inmates in jail. He deserves a full treatment. Being a complete **** brings such benefits.
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#43Bleyat, Posted: Sep 14 2011 at 5:29 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) You're a god **** mongoloid lolgaxe. You can't just call any random person who uses a meme an 'internet hipster'. This is not how words work you stupid fuck. You can't just redefine them as you go along merely because you're too poorly educated to properly express yourself. No wonder you had to join the military.
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BLOO BLOO BLOO BLOO.
Okay.
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#45 Sep 14 2011 at 5:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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#46ShadowedgeFFXI, Posted: Sep 14 2011 at 5:40 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I'm not arguing what the guy was protesting. If 9/11 was an inside job or not is not the question for debate. My point was to show a miscarriage of justice to our first amendment rights. Some people seem to imply this guy had it coming for speaking out on 9/11. I hope you're not intending to put a spin on this thread by implying that the arrest is my attempt at proving 9/11 was an inside job. I have a feeling that's where you're going here, but I'll give you the benefit of doubt.
#47 Sep 14 2011 at 5:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
I can say this: Let's assume for the sake of argument that this guy was just peacefully and legally waving his sign and saying his words and some cop decided to cuff him and take him in.

Sure, the cop shouldn't do that. Ok, now what? The guy gets a court hearing, right? The guy can appeal to one of the organizations that make free speech their bread & butter. It's not as though he's lacking in options and he wouldn't be the first or last person wrongly arrested. That's why we have a justice system that goes beyond "throw 'im in the hole".

So what's supposed to be the take away from the OP? Righteous outrage just 'cause?

...and this happens all the time - probably at most major political rallies. Funny the liberal media didn't pick up on this guy's story though. [:tinhat:]
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#48Bleyat, Posted: Sep 14 2011 at 5:45 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Great rebuttal you piece of shit. My condolences to the sole literate member of your squad (or whatever) who you dictate your posts to.
#49 Sep 14 2011 at 5:48 PM Rating: Good
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6,470 posts
ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
I also feel it's wrong for those that have bashed this guy just because they don't agree with his speech. You should be supportive of his rights of freedom of speech regardless if you agree or not. Any less than that is un-American.


I won't bash him because I don't agree with him. I will, however, bash him for being a jerk, and for believing things that are patently false.

For all your indignation, you don't even realize that you're preaching to the choir. Pretty much everyone here errs on the side of freedom of speech, with the exception of a very select few. I mean, nobody here has tried to prevent you from making your stupid, childish rants. Heck, you haven't even been rated down.

Edited, Sep 14th 2011 7:50pm by Eske
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#50 Sep 14 2011 at 5:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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43,382 posts
Bleyat wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Bleyat wrote:
BLOO BLOO BLOO BLOO.
Okay.
BLOO BLOO BLOO BLOO
Sure.
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George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#51 Sep 14 2011 at 5:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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Bleyat wrote:
You're a god **** mongoloid lolgaxe. You can't just call any random person who uses a meme an 'internet hipster'. This is not how words work you stupid fuck.

You're very touchy about the whole "hipster" thing.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
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