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#27 Sep 08 2011 at 12:28 PM Rating: Good
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Timelordwho wrote:
All the GOP candidates that have actually released plans have been railroaded into oscurity. I think this is more than a little distressing.

The smart ones have correctly deduced that selling obscure, undeliverable halcyon ideals like "hope" and "change" is a better formula for success than selling concrete plans that can be nitpicked to death.
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#28 Sep 08 2011 at 12:48 PM Rating: Good
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Demea wrote:
Timelordwho wrote:
All the GOP candidates that have actually released plans have been railroaded into oscurity. I think this is more than a little distressing.

The smart ones have correctly deduced that selling obscure, undeliverable halcyon ideals like "hope" and "change" is a better formula for success than selling concrete plans that can be nitpicked to death.


Welcome to politics.
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#29 Sep 08 2011 at 1:00 PM Rating: Good
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Olorinus wrote:
Demea wrote:
Timelordwho wrote:
All the GOP candidates that have actually released plans have been railroaded into oscurity. I think this is more than a little distressing.

The smart ones have correctly deduced that selling obscure, undeliverable halcyon ideals like "hope" and "change" is a better formula for success than selling concrete plans that can be nitpicked to death.


Welcome to politics.

Yes, we can.
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#30 Sep 08 2011 at 1:02 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Maybe an irate Huntsman fan who was upset at my not including him in the first draft.
No doubt a chunky elf.
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#31 Sep 08 2011 at 1:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
Person (with a chance of getting the nomination) who'd do the best against Obama: Romney


Some of us figured this out four years ago. Smiley: mad
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#32 Sep 08 2011 at 1:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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That's why I need to vote Perry in the primaries!

OMG Operation Chaos!!!
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#33 Sep 08 2011 at 3:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Person (with a chance of getting the nomination) who'd do the best against Obama: Romney


Some of us figured this out four years ago. Smiley: mad


Wait, you LIKE Romney? Because he's one of the most liberal of these nutjobs... I thought you abhorred things like social healthcare.

And I'm not quite convinced this is true. Without Tea Party support, any GOP candidate is going to struggle to win an election in 2012.

He's certainly who I would hope wins, though, if Obama can't keep his office. He terrifies me slightly less than the rest. Though, to be fair, I know VERY little about Huntsman.
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#34 Sep 08 2011 at 3:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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With only Tea Party support, the nominee may as well just stay home. There's a reason why the Obama campaign is crossing their fingers for Rick "Social Security is a monstrous lie" Perry.
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#35 Sep 08 2011 at 3:34 PM Rating: Good
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I'd expect any GOP candidate (with a chance) to need both Tea Party and traditional support to win.
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#36 Sep 08 2011 at 3:44 PM Rating: Good
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
I'd expect any GOP candidate (with a chance) to need both Tea Party and traditional support to win.
The only way it truly becomes an issue is if the GOP candidate is so far out from the TP, that they field their own candidate, otherwise, one would think, selling the GOP candidate should be easy as it's the GOP candidate or that Commie *******.
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#37 Sep 08 2011 at 3:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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You'd think that because that makes sense.
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#38 Sep 08 2011 at 3:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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Typically, I'm a fairly rational person, so yes, I'd think that. I know I'm probably wrong, but I've got to throw my fellow conservatives a bone.
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#39 Sep 08 2011 at 4:05 PM Rating: Decent
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Person (with a chance of getting the nomination) who'd do the best against Obama: Romney


Some of us figured this out four years ago. Smiley: mad


Wait, you LIKE Romney?


I didn't think you were that new here. He was my preferred candidate in 2008. Funny how perception and reality don't always match up.

Quote:
Because he's one of the most liberal of these nutjobs... I thought you abhorred things like social healthcare.


This is you misunderstanding my reasons for my positions. Happens a lot though, so I'll forgive you! Smiley: smile

Quote:
And I'm not quite convinced this is true. Without Tea Party support, any GOP candidate is going to struggle to win an election in 2012.


Romney will get Tea Party support if he wins the primary. As several people have pointed out, Romney is 100 times better in their eyes than Obama. If you meant "without being the absolute favorite of the Tea Party", I think you're 100% incorrect.

Quote:
He's certainly who I would hope wins, though, if Obama can't keep his office. He terrifies me slightly less than the rest. Though, to be fair, I know VERY little about Huntsman.


This is why you're 100% incorrect. To win, all a GOP candidate has to do to win against Obama under the current conditions is *not* **** off the Tea Party and *not* scare away independents and moderates. Bachmann is a bad choice because even though she's a Tea Party favorite, she's very poorly viewed in the middle. Perry is rapidly developing the same problem. Romney is someone who's seen as a solid conservative (despite the whole "Romneycare" bit) on the right, but not seen as a radical by the middle.

He's also got great hair. Never underestimate the value of that in a president.
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#40 Sep 08 2011 at 4:14 PM Rating: Decent
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Uglysasquatch, Mercenary Major wrote:
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
I'd expect any GOP candidate (with a chance) to need both Tea Party and traditional support to win.
The only way it truly becomes an issue is if the GOP candidate is so far out from the TP, that they field their own candidate, otherwise, one would think, selling the GOP candidate should be easy as it's the GOP candidate or that Commie *******.


BTW. I suspect that's exactly what Sarah Palin is doing right now. Not planning to run if the GOP doesn't field the right candidate, but keeping the Tea Party movement involved and active regardless of whom the GOP fields. If the Tea Party is firmly attached to one or two candidates and those candidates don't win the primary, the situation you mention could happen. But if you have someone who isn't in the ring acting as the Tea Party spokesperson, she can step in and get those members to support whomever wins the primary. This way you don't have a falling off of support (or as much of one) when a groups preferred candidate doesn't win the nomination.


It's entirely possible she's a complete moron and is planning on jumping into the ring at the very last moment, but I just suspect that behind the scenes power-broker is a much better role for her right now. On some level I think she's holding a grudge for what the Obama campaign (and their friends) did to her in 2008, and is willing to essentially campaign for anyone who'll take on Obama. And building this support structure without running herself is a perfect way of doing that. Dunno, could just be whimsical fantasy, but it's why I'd be doing what she's doing, if I were doing it (does that make sense?).
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#41 Sep 08 2011 at 5:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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Sarah who?
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#42 Sep 08 2011 at 5:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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The only thing Palin is doing is promoting her own brand. She was out of the race the moment Bachmann entered it as Palin doesn't have the personality to share the spotlight with someone else who has an identical message. But she'll keep pretending to have some chance of entering so people will keep giving her media time (funny how the "lamestream media" isn't so bad then... heh) and try to keep herself relevant for another six months or so.

Palin isn't popular outside of her core group and Bachman and Perry both proved that they can take her message further than she ever could. 2012 was her one chance because no one will care about her in 2016 but collecting an easy paycheck from FOX was more valuable to her than running. I don't say that insultingly; she had no chance of winning anyway so she might as well stay where she belongs.

Speaking of the Tea Party, Romney's measured "Well, if they're for tax reform then yeah, I'm for the Tea Party" didn't go past me unnoticed. He knows he'll need their votes and appeal to them at the basic "jobs & taxes" level while trying to stay away from the fringe element.
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#43 Sep 08 2011 at 5:24 PM Rating: Decent
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/shrug. I'd spend more time replying, but there's a minor power issue going on right now. Yay!
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More words please
#44 Sep 08 2011 at 9:42 PM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
You'd think that because that makes sense.


I lol'd.

gbaji wrote:
/shrug. I'd spend more time replying, but there's a minor power issue going on right now. Yay!


Maybe there is a god?
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IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people

lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
#45 Sep 08 2011 at 10:14 PM Rating: Good
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
gbaji wrote:
/shrug. I'd spend more time replying, but there's a minor power issue going on right now. Yay!


Maybe there is a god?


What a great plan. Inconvenience millions to delay an incredibly persistent poster minutely.
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#46 Sep 08 2011 at 10:51 PM Rating: Default
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Uglysasquatch, Mercenary Major wrote:
Elinda wrote:
I didn't suggest forcing companies to use local labors. What are you reading?
That would be my conservative skew on you saying "make foreign labour more expensive."


Tell that to Dalton Mcguinty who just proposed a 10K Tax Credit to Corporations to Hire Skilled Immigrants. Right after the Ontario Government has spent about 580 million in paying for Second Career Training for the thousands of laid of workers. Its stupid, but a month before the election here, why commit political suicide. ******* idiot. I swear to god politicians are some of the stupidest people on this planet. 500K unemployed in the province, lets use their money to bring in foreign labor....Idiot.
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#47 Sep 09 2011 at 2:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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Timelordwho wrote:
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
gbaji wrote:
/shrug. I'd spend more time replying, but there's a minor power issue going on right now. Yay!


Maybe there is a god?


What a great plan. Inconvenience millions to delay an incredibly persistent poster minutely.

It took me a few decades, but I worked out that being sensible all the time makes one unfunny and disliked.
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#48 Sep 09 2011 at 2:45 AM Rating: Good
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varusword75 wrote:
omg a bunch of radical pinko lefties don't like the GOP candidates. Stop the press! LOL.

Actually, I have to agree (in nicer language) with Varus here. It makes sense that the most progressive politicians in the conservative party are going to be liked more by progressive citizens, and the most conservative politicians in the progressive party are going to be liked more by conservative citizens.

For instance, in Australia, the major conservative party, The Coalition, who I wouldn't vote for in a pink fit, had Peter Costello and Malcolm Turnbull as major players, Ministers (Secretaries) and (very briefly) Leaders. I thought both of them were intelligent, compassionate men, and quite liked them. They were socially progressive, but economically conservative. Sadly, but unsurprisingly, their rises to power were brief, as people in their own party, and Coalition voters, didn't like them.

On the principles that People Are Stupid, Scum Rises To The Top, and Your Electronic Voting Systems Have Been Compromised, I'm going to predict you get Bachmann for POTUS.
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#49 Sep 09 2011 at 5:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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Whether or not I like Romney or Perry or Bachman has nothing to do with what sort of a performance they turned in at the debate. Romney indisputably won but I wouldn't vote for the guy or cross the street to dump a bucket of water on him if he were on fire. Perry's performance was just abysmal when he had been hyped as a debating machine. He stuttered and stammered over his answers and Romney had him on the defensive the entire night. The few times he tried to attack Romney's answers, Romney was ready with a rebuttal ("Dukakis!" "Bush!").

I haven't heard anyone say they took away a different impression and I rather doubt Varus even watched the debate. If someone wants to defend Perry's performance rather than saying "Liberal", knock yourself out.

And saying someone is "most liberal" in a field with Bachman, Perry and Santorum is like saying "This is the least screechy and poo-flinging monkey in the monkey house" and expecting it to dress up in a suit and join you for dinner.

Edit: Autocorrect is always an adventure.

Edited, Sep 9th 2011 6:31am by Jophiel
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#50 Sep 09 2011 at 6:25 AM Rating: Good
I think Romney would be the most serious threat to Obama if he can get through the primaries. I don't know if I'd vote for him myself in the general election, but I don't think I'd open a vein if he got elected, either. The problem is, he's going to have a rough time winning anything in the bible belt or anywhere else where mormons are scary.
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#51 Sep 09 2011 at 6:36 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
I wouldn't vote for the guy or cross the street to dump a bucket of water on him if he were on fire.
I bet you would. I'd even put my lips to his for a little mouth to mouth if it was a matter of life or death.

Perry seems convinced that he has convinced the american people that Obama is an atrocious, ineffective leader. So, all independents and republicans alike will throw their weight behind the Pubby-nominee Perrster just to be rid of the country-rotting black guy.
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