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#1 Sep 06 2011 at 10:12 AM Rating: Good
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AP-NORC did a survey/poll on security vs. freedoms. Some results from this article:

—71 percent favor surveillance cameras in public places to watch for suspicious activity.
—58 percent favor random searches involving full-body scans or pat-downs of airplane passengers.
—55 percent favor government analysis of financial transactions processed by U.S. banks without a warrant.
—47 percent favor requiring all people in the U.S. to carry a national ID card and provide it to authorities upon demand.
—35 percent favor racial or ethnic profiling to decide who should get tougher screening at airports.

Governing is all about balancing security with freedom. Are the scales tipping too far in either direction?

I'm resigned to live with transparent security efforts such as metal detectors and bag searches. I'm not keen on much of the patriot act and the more sinister types of secret surveillance. I thought the warrant process worked pretty well.

I'm also worried that SO many people are voting and/or making opinion based on irrational fear (of terrorists).
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#2 Sep 06 2011 at 10:17 AM Rating: Good
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Governing is all about balancing security with freedom. Are the scales tipping too far in either direction?

Not when the country has you to keep us in line!
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#3 Sep 06 2011 at 10:19 AM Rating: Good
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Demea wrote:
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Governing is all about balancing security with freedom. Are the scales tipping too far in either direction?

Not when the country has you to keep us in line!
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#4 Sep 06 2011 at 10:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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Those people favor that stuff until it happens to them. "Why do I need to show ID? I'm white!"
#5 Sep 06 2011 at 11:05 AM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
—47 percent favor requiring all people in the U.S. to carry a national ID card and provide it to authorities upon demand.
I'm okay with that, though I may be biased to the idea.
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#6 Sep 06 2011 at 12:00 PM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Elinda wrote:
—47 percent favor requiring all people in the U.S. to carry a national ID card and provide it to authorities upon demand.
I'm okay with that, though I may be biased to the idea.
We have that here, if you can't show it you just get fined.
Although it has it's downsides, when a bunch of protesters refused to show an ID to the police the police abused the rules and arrested all of them on suspicion of being illegal immigrants despite there being no evidence for that aside from refusing to show an ID.

And while it was a very dirty tactic by the police, it is a legal action (barely legal and very shady, but legal) which is rather disturbing.

Edited, Sep 6th 2011 8:02pm by Aethien
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#7 Sep 06 2011 at 12:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Elinda wrote:
—47 percent favor requiring all people in the U.S. to carry a national ID card and provide it to authorities upon demand.
I'm okay with that, though I may be biased to the idea.


Not me. It leaves a sour taste in my mouth to think that I have to keep ID on me at all times or be fined.

And what would be on the ID, exactly?
#8 Sep 06 2011 at 12:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Belkira the Tulip wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Elinda wrote:
—47 percent favor requiring all people in the U.S. to carry a national ID card and provide it to authorities upon demand.
I'm okay with that, though I may be biased to the idea.


Not me. It leaves a sour taste in my mouth to think that I have to keep ID on me at all times or be fined.

And what would be on the ID, exactly?
Typically, the same info that's on a driver's license, less your driver's license ID number. At least, that's how it is for us.

I have yet to understand, what to me is, your irrational fear of this, but to each their own.
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#9 Sep 06 2011 at 12:48 PM Rating: Good
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Less than a driver's license, I'd guess. Name, birthday, basic physical stats at least.
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#10 Sep 06 2011 at 12:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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Uglysasquatch, Mercenary Major wrote:
Typically, the same info that's on a driver's license, less your driver's license ID number. At least, that's how it is for us.

I have yet to understand, what to me is, your irrational fear of this, but to each their own.


I'd like the freedom to go out without having to carry an ID if I want to without being fined, is all. I've also only ever heard this in connection with illegal immigrants, and I have an issue on that respect, personally.

It's not a fear, exactly. More like a petulant, "I don't wanna" type thing.
#11 Sep 06 2011 at 1:01 PM Rating: Decent
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Belkira wrote:
I'd like the freedom to go out without having to carry an ID if I want to without being fined, is all.
Driving without your license can land you 90s days and $150. Smiley: dubious
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#12 Sep 06 2011 at 1:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Belkira wrote:
I'd like the freedom to go out without having to carry an ID if I want to without being fined, is all.
Driving without your license can land you 90s days and $150. Smiley: dubious


I never said I wanted to drive somewhere without ID. Smiley: lol I can't exactly walk to the store from my house right now, but when I move to Hawaii I'll be able to, and if I want to go for a stroll, I might not want to get my wallet out of my purse and find my license in order to do that.

ETA: Oh, and someone ELSE can drive me somewhere. Smiley: tongue

Edited, Sep 6th 2011 2:04pm by Belkira
#13 Sep 06 2011 at 1:13 PM Rating: Good
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I often am without id. Mostly cuz I just forget it, but often I just don't need it. You have 24hours to produce your drivers license if you should get pulled over and don't have it on you.

Honestly I can't come up with a really good example of why requiring everyone has an ID is a bad thing. It just seems like it is - Big Brotherish. And, as usual, it will be the indigent, homeless types that would be most inconvenienced by having to get and keep an id.
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#14 Sep 06 2011 at 1:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Typically, the same info that's on a driver's license, less your driver's license ID number. At least, that's how it is for us.


What piece of ID are you referring to?
#15 Sep 06 2011 at 1:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
Honestly I can't come up with a really good example of why requiring everyone has an ID is a bad thing. It just seems like it is - Big Brotherish. And, as usual, it will be the indigent, homeless types that would be most inconvenienced by having to get and keep an id.


And the disabled who don't drive. Or people who just never learned to drive.

#16 Sep 06 2011 at 1:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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Belkira the Tulip wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Honestly I can't come up with a really good example of why requiring everyone has an ID is a bad thing. It just seems like it is - Big Brotherish. And, as usual, it will be the indigent, homeless types that would be most inconvenienced by having to get and keep an id.


And the disabled who don't drive. Or people who just never learned to drive.

Government Requires Citizens to Provide Proof of Citizenship; Poor and Gimpy Hit Hardest. Smiley: rolleyes
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#17 Sep 06 2011 at 1:20 PM Rating: Good
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Belkira the Tulip wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Honestly I can't come up with a really good example of why requiring everyone has an ID is a bad thing. It just seems like it is - Big Brotherish. And, as usual, it will be the indigent, homeless types that would be most inconvenienced by having to get and keep an id.


And the disabled who don't drive. Or people who just never learned to drive.
How do they ID you for alcohol/cigarettes in the US?

I have my Driver's License, but my Mom has a basic ID with her birth date, address, etc.

Edited, Sep 6th 2011 1:21pm by Kirby
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#18 Sep 06 2011 at 1:22 PM Rating: Good
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Belkira wrote:
when I move to Hawaii I'll be able to, and if I want to go for a stroll, I might not want to get my wallet out of my purse and find my license in order to do that.
That's the irrational fear Ugly was talking about. You're not going to get regularly, or even randomly, checked for ID. The countries that already do things like this require specific circumstances before they check cards.

Even then, I find it mind boggling anyone would leave their homes without something that notes at least their blood type and allergies. God forbid there's an accident of some sort.
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#19 Sep 06 2011 at 1:23 PM Rating: Good
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Kirby the Eccentric wrote:
Belkira the Tulip wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Honestly I can't come up with a really good example of why requiring everyone has an ID is a bad thing. It just seems like it is - Big Brotherish. And, as usual, it will be the indigent, homeless types that would be most inconvenienced by having to get and keep an id.


And the disabled who don't drive. Or people who just never learned to drive.
How do they ID you for alcohol/cigarettes in the US?

I have my Driver's License, but my Mom has a basic ID with her birth date, address, etc.


Driver's license usually. If you don't get one, then you either need to get someone to buy it for you, get an ID card, or you go without.
#20 Sep 06 2011 at 1:26 PM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
That's the irrational fear Ugly was talking about. You're not going to get regularly, or even randomly, checked for ID. The countries that already do things like this require specific circumstances before they check cards.

Even then, I find it mind boggling anyone would leave their homes without something that notes at least their blood type and allergies. God forbid there's an accident of some sort.


Where's the fear...? If I know it's possible that I'll be fined if asked for an ID and I don't have one (for example, if I witness an accident or something, not just walking around and some cop starts badgering me for an ID) then I'll feel obligated to always go through the trouble of finding my license and digging it out of my wallet before I go for a walk. That's annoying.

And I own nothing that notes my blood type or allergies (but I don't have any allergies besides seasonal, so there's that). I figure if I'm in the hospital, it's not that difficult for them to find out what my blood type is. I honestly have no idea what my blood type is, despite having given blood before. Tons of people walk around without that information somewhere on their body, and I've never heard that someone has died because of it. Plus, I'd rather the medics go ahead and start that life saving that they're paid to do instead of rooting around in my wallet for a list of allergies and my blood type.
#21 Sep 06 2011 at 1:35 PM Rating: Good
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Belkira wrote:
I'd rather the medics go ahead and start that life saving that they're paid to do instead of rooting around in my wallet for a list of allergies and my blood type.
Personally, I'd like them to use the time it takes to do the tests for blood type on actually saving my life. No ID, you're unconscious, they can't exactly get your medical records either or contact anyone. I just find it mind boggling people don't take these simple measures.
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#22 Sep 06 2011 at 1:35 PM Rating: Good
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Belkira the Tulip wrote:
Kirby the Eccentric wrote:
Belkira the Tulip wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Honestly I can't come up with a really good example of why requiring everyone has an ID is a bad thing. It just seems like it is - Big Brotherish. And, as usual, it will be the indigent, homeless types that would be most inconvenienced by having to get and keep an id.


And the disabled who don't drive. Or people who just never learned to drive.
How do they ID you for alcohol/cigarettes in the US?

I have my Driver's License, but my Mom has a basic ID with her birth date, address, etc.


Driver's license usually. If you don't get one, then you either need to get someone to buy it for you, get an ID card, or you go without.

If you get old enough you don't get carded anymore. Smiley: glare

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#23 Sep 06 2011 at 1:46 PM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Belkira wrote:
I'd rather the medics go ahead and start that life saving that they're paid to do instead of rooting around in my wallet for a list of allergies and my blood type.
Personally, I'd like them to use the time it takes to do the tests for blood type on actually saving my life. No ID, you're unconscious, they can't exactly get your medical records either or contact anyone. I just find it mind boggling people don't take these simple measures.


Tomayto Tomahto, I suppose. I don't have any real issues or allergies, so I don't see an issue, personally. If I had, say, a latex allergy or something, I'd probably have one of those medical bracelets.
#24 Sep 06 2011 at 2:20 PM Rating: Decent
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I think the issue isn't having to carry ID at all times so much as the door this opens. Governments are suppose to represent people, not control them. As far as catching 'illegal' immigrants? Humans are humans. What right does anyone one person have over another to live anywhere?
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#25 Sep 06 2011 at 2:23 PM Rating: Good
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Elinda wrote:
—47 percent favor requiring all people in the U.S. to carry a national ID card and provide it to authorities upon demand.
I'm okay with that, though I may be biased to the idea.
We have that here, if you can't show it you just get fined.


How do you fine someone if they don't produce ID?
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#26 Sep 06 2011 at 2:27 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:


How do you fine someone if they don't produce ID?


Yes officer. My name is Lolard Gaxington.
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