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#1 Aug 31 2011 at 3:08 PM Rating: Excellent
Clearly they are just a government conspiracy

Vaccines should at this point probably just be outlawed outright, as there is no evidence at all that they help with diseases and incontrovertibly they cause autism. It's Obvious.

So how do you deal with this kind of perception? Does the government have a role here to step in a run some kind of awareness campaign?

Edited, Aug 31st 2011 4:09pm by Xsarus
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#2 Aug 31 2011 at 3:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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Glad I get the good stuff.
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#3 Aug 31 2011 at 3:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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My son has had every vaccine there is and he gets them when he's supposed to. Surprise, surprise, he's not autistic!

Also, (and this is JMO) I don't think autism is really on the rise the way everyone says it is. I think we've just become a nation of labeling people, especially when they don't fit into one of about 4 neat little packages we think they belong in. I think it was Smash that said most "autistic" kids are what we used to call "shy" about 15 years ago.
#4 Aug 31 2011 at 3:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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Nadenu wrote:
I don't think autism is really on the rise the way everyone says it is.
We must be reading different threads on Zam.
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#5 Aug 31 2011 at 3:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Nadenu wrote:
I don't think autism is really on the rise the way everyone says it is.
We must be reading different threads on Zam.

No, I meant out there in the other world. Not here, where it's safe.
#6 Aug 31 2011 at 3:54 PM Rating: Good
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I've had very few vaccines as far as I'm aware and I am autistic... Smiley: tongue
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#7 Aug 31 2011 at 3:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
I've had very few vaccines as far as I'm aware and I am autistic... Smiley: tongue

Vaccinate your children or you end up with an Aethien. And NO ONE wants that.
#8 Aug 31 2011 at 4:10 PM Rating: Good
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Nadenu wrote:
My son has had every vaccine there is and he gets them when he's supposed to. Surprise, surprise, he's not autistic!

Also, (and this is JMO) I don't think autism is really on the rise the way everyone says it is. I think we've just become a nation of labeling people, especially when they don't fit into one of about 4 neat little packages we think they belong in. I think it was Smash that said most "autistic" kids are what we used to call "shy" about 15 years ago.


I tend to agree with this. I also think that we over medicate for those borderline cases as well. I just got into a long discussion with a friend of mine about this last weekend. The short of it is that I believe that while there are some cases were severe emotional issues will require medication, this is overshadowed by the sheer number of kids we medicate for less severe cases, who in all likelihood would have worked through their issues in a year or so on their own, but now will never learn to.

What sparked this was a discussion about a niece of hers who's been on some form of mood control drugs (not sure which one) for about a year, and is the tender age of 7. Yeah. She's a holy terror, but kids that ages are still developing their personalities. I just don't think that's something we should mess with lightly.

Edited, Aug 31st 2011 3:11pm by gbaji
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#9 Aug 31 2011 at 4:12 PM Rating: Good
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Nadenu wrote:
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
I've had very few vaccines as far as I'm aware and I am autistic... Smiley: tongue

Vaccinate your children or you end up with an Aethien. And NO ONE wants that.
Seriously, this.
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#10 Sep 01 2011 at 8:58 AM Rating: Good
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Don't forget to get your booster shots as an adult. I came down with pertussis a few years ago because I'd never gotten re-immunized when I was 20, as per the recommendations. Whooping cough sucks. I was out of work for a full week, and then spent another two months with random coughing fits.

Although otherwise healthy adults are unlikely to die of the diseases if they forget boosters, any person who catches something acts as a vector, endangering the elderly and childern who are unvaccinated.

Seriously, I don't wish ill of anyone, especially children, but it's going to take a massive pandemic of scarlet fever killing thousands of unvaccinated kids to stop this nonsense for good. And that's a tragedy. I put it under the same mentality as the people who rebel against seatbelt laws. "But there are cases where people would have died if they were wearing a seatbelt!" And for every one of those, there are a thousand where people would have died it they hadn't worn a seatbelt, or did die because they weren't wearing one.

Edited, Sep 1st 2011 11:41am by catwho
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#11 Sep 01 2011 at 9:05 AM Rating: Good
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Vaccines have proven their worth. Lots of ills, some pretty nasty, have been knocked down to near nothing due to vaccines.

When an infectious disease becomes epidemic then, yes, the government would be negligent not to step in.

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#12 Sep 01 2011 at 9:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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catwho wrote:
Seriously, I don't wish ill of anyone, especially children, but it's going to take a massive pandemic of scarlet fever killing thousands of unvaccinated kids to stop this nonsense for good.

Fortunately, select pretty blondes are also wealthy enough to afford excellent medical care so they can save their kids and go on The View, telling us that vaccines aren't really useful.
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#13 Sep 02 2011 at 6:35 AM Rating: Excellent
Small Pox. The vaccine had about a one in a million shot of killing you. The disease, if it didn't kill you, which it probably would, would almost certainly disfigure you. We've also eliminated small pox because enough people got the vaccinations.

But on the other hand, Jenny Mcarthy is kinda hot, so there might be something to her claim about vaccines.
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Edited, Mar 21st 2011 2:14pm by Darqflame Lock Thread: Because Lubriderm is silly... ~ de geso

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#14 Sep 03 2011 at 8:46 AM Rating: Excellent
Scarlet fever is caused by a bacteria and there is not an immunization for it. But, insert measles into that statement and I agree 100%.
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#15 Sep 03 2011 at 9:20 AM Rating: Excellent
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Admiral Lubriderm wrote:
Small Pox. The vaccine had about a one in a million shot of killing you. The disease, if it didn't kill you, which it probably would, would almost certainly disfigure you. We've also eliminated small pox because enough people got the vaccinations.

You might be dead, but you won't be autistic! Win!
#16 Sep 03 2011 at 9:43 AM Rating: Good
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Disfigured? I'd certainly rather be autistic or dead.
#17 Sep 04 2011 at 7:17 AM Rating: Good
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I dunno pretty sure some things have been shown to work (small pox, polio, tetanus,) but I personally think that many people over medicate, so many god **** drugs these days. A dozen different pain killers, 2 dozen allergy pills, boat load of drugs with lovely little symptoms like liver failure, kidney disease, death.

Glad I only use weed, at least I know where it comes from and what it is capable of doing to me. (and its free <3 you Canadian Health Care System.)
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#18 Sep 04 2011 at 7:38 AM Rating: Good
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rdmcandie wrote:
I dunno pretty sure some things have been shown to work (small pox, polio, tetanus,) but I personally think that many people over medicate, so many god **** drugs these days. A dozen different pain killers, 2 dozen allergy pills, boat load of drugs with lovely little symptoms like liver failure, kidney disease, death.

Glad I only use weed, at least I know where it comes from and what it is capable of doing to me. (and its free <3 you Canadian Health Care System.)


Plain, ordinary aspirin is actually one of the oldest, safest drugs known to mankind. Even before the pure extracts of it were made, everyone knew that willowbark tea was a good pain reliever.

So you could add in aspirin to your medical **** without worrying too much, I would say.
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#19 Sep 04 2011 at 8:03 AM Rating: Excellent
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There are no strong studies that link autism to vaccines. Whether or not autism is increasing or not is hard to say, because it's definitely true that we are at least more adept at diagnosing (or over-diagnosing) it.

There WAS an interesting study recently that reported that autism is likely caused by a mix of environmental and genetic factors, though (and most doctors have been maintaining that it is genetic). But the researchers involved in that study made clear that they didn't see any significant link between vaccinations and autism.

Pro-tip for idiots--if 90% of kids get vaccinated, on average 90% of kids with autism will have had vaccinations.

Also, the health risks posed to your child from those diseases vastly outweighs any fantasy vaccination risk. AND, all you do by not vaccinating is increasing the chances that we will actually see epidemics of these diseases. Some areas of the country now have vaccine rates so low that they are well past the risk threshold...
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#20 Sep 04 2011 at 8:24 AM Rating: Decent
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catwho wrote:
rdmcandie wrote:
I dunno pretty sure some things have been shown to work (small pox, polio, tetanus,) but I personally think that many people over medicate, so many god **** drugs these days. A dozen different pain killers, 2 dozen allergy pills, boat load of drugs with lovely little symptoms like liver failure, kidney disease, death.

Glad I only use weed, at least I know where it comes from and what it is capable of doing to me. (and its free <3 you Canadian Health Care System.)


Plain, ordinary aspirin is actually one of the oldest, safest drugs known to mankind. Even before the pure extracts of it were made, everyone knew that willowbark tea was a good pain reliever.

So you could add in aspirin to your medical **** without worrying too much, I would say.



Reye's Syndrome says hi!

Edit: Ok it's fine for RDM but should have the warning for children in here anyways.

Edited, Sep 4th 2011 10:25am by Peimei
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#21 Sep 04 2011 at 11:25 AM Rating: Good
rdmcandie wrote:
I dunno pretty sure some things have been shown to work (small pox, polio, tetanus,) but I personally think that many people over medicate, so many god **** drugs these days. A dozen different pain killers, 2 dozen allergy pills, boat load of drugs with lovely little symptoms like liver failure, kidney disease, death.

Glad I only use weed, at least I know where it comes from and what it is capable of doing to me. (and its free <3 you Canadian Health Care System.)
It's really too bad that people who use their government weed for pain killing also use it for recreation. I'm totally shocked that there isn't much progress on the medicinal marijuana front here in the states.
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Edited, Mar 21st 2011 2:14pm by Darqflame Lock Thread: Because Lubriderm is silly... ~ de geso

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#22 Sep 04 2011 at 11:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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If the vast majority of people around you are vaccinated there's not a sufficient population to sustain a disease outbreak. You get the benefits of a vaccine without any of the potential real or imagined side effects. On the other hand, if a sufficient quantity of people aren't vaccinated, then the vaccine doesn't work as well. Enough exposure has the potential to make some vaccinated people sick, as many vaccines don't protect everyone to the same degree; potentially causing people to lose faith in a vaccine.

The best bet is to convince everyone else but you to get the shot. That way you don't have to risk the side effects, but you have de facto immunity anyway. Smiley: nod
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#23 Sep 04 2011 at 12:18 PM Rating: Good
There are people here who will take that to heart, protein. Curse you.
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Edited, Mar 21st 2011 2:14pm by Darqflame Lock Thread: Because Lubriderm is silly... ~ de geso

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#24 Sep 04 2011 at 12:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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Admiral Lubriderm wrote:
There are people here who will take that to heart, protein. Curse you.


I call that phase 3: eliminating the witnesses. Smiley: grin
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#25 Sep 06 2011 at 3:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Pro-tip for idiots--if 90% of kids get vaccinated, on average 90% of kids with autism will have had vaccinations.


While I'm hardly versed in the arguments being made for the whole "vaccinations cause autism!" argument, I doubt that this is the math they're using.

I would assume that they're charting the rate of autism over time and finding that it has grown similarly to the rate at which we vaccinate children. Correlation does not prove causation, but when you see a change in one factor, the first thing you do is look at correlated changes in other factors over the same period of time. It's how you narrow you list of potential causes from "everything" down to a handful of things.

The problem, of course, is when groups of people leap on one correlation and assume it must be the cause even when there are other correlated factors out there.
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#26 Sep 07 2011 at 5:32 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:

What sparked this was a discussion about a niece of hers who's been on some form of mood control drugs (not sure which one) for about a year, and is the tender age of 7. Yeah. She's a holy terror, but kids that ages are still developing their personalities. I just don't think that's something we should mess with lightly.


Omg, I'm agreeing with Gbaji.

I think the proliferation/increase of "mental illness" is really a product of saavy marketing from pharmaceutical companies combined with parents and individuals who want to abdicate responsibility for their/their children's behavior and emotions.

Of course there are genuine cases of mental illness out there - but most of it is hokum. As someone who was stuffed with various psychiatric medications as a child, and told I would have to take them for the rest of my life (I haven't been on them for a decade now) - I am justifiably cynical about the whole business.

As for vaccines, /shrugs. I get my tetanus shots etc, but I had no interest in getting the pig flu vaccine or any other flu vaccine. The hype was suspicious to me and all the unfounded hysteria makes me wonder what the heck is going on. Seemed too much like someone trying to make a mint off of people who are easily terrified.
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#27 Sep 08 2011 at 2:27 AM Rating: Good
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In my case everyone that lives with me or i'm in close contact with have no choice but to get our flu shots. I now in the part of the population that outside of the flu vaccine can not get them anymore. So I count on those close to me to have been vaccinated.
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#28 Sep 08 2011 at 12:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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Part of the problem is that most people who are anti-vaccination probably have never seen the effects of the diseases we're commonly vaccinated against.

Whooping cough? Oh... that's like the flu, right? Well, maybe if you've ever broken a rib or gotten a hernia from the coughing.

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