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#152 Sep 06 2011 at 8:37 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
I'm living in a city
You'd like to think that.
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#153 Sep 06 2011 at 8:40 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
gbaji wrote:
San Diego is the 8th largest city and the 6th largest county by population in the US.
Proud of eighth place, huh.

It's a pretty sharp scale as well. Chicago is twice as populous as San Diego and New York three times more populous than Chicago.

That's just city size, not metro area where San Diego plummets to 17th place. But, since we're discussing commutes, metro area is probably more important than city limits.


Metro area is the most arbitrary and also unfair measure to use though. It's arbitrary because it isn't defined by an actual political or economic boundaries, and it's unfair because it weights towards large centralized cities with mass transit leading in and out (it's part of the **** definition of a metropolitan area in fact).
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#154 Sep 06 2011 at 8:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Metro area is the most arbitrary and also unfair measure to use though. It's arbitrary because it isn't defined by an actual political or economic boundaries, and it's unfair because it weights towards large centralized cities with mass transit leading in and out (it's part of the **** definition of a metropolitan area in fact).

Yeah, why on EARTH would you want to use a definition based on commuter area when discussing mass transit and commuting?!?

Insane!! Smiley: laugh

Oh... "unfair" meant "This makes my ridiculous arguments look even more ridiculous" when you said it. Never mind then.

The Wiki page uses the OMB definitions of metro area, by the way. You know, those areas without any non-arbitrary boundaries and stuff...
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#155 Sep 06 2011 at 9:05 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Oh... "unfair" meant "This makes my ridiculous arguments look even more ridiculous" when you said it. Never mind then.
Not nearly as unfair as when the person who's story he based his entire argument on came in and called him a **** over it.
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#156 Sep 06 2011 at 10:34 PM Rating: Excellent
I see we're doing the talking to experts thing again. good times.
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#157 Sep 06 2011 at 11:05 PM Rating: Decent
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gbaji wrote:
Debalic wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Thank God I don't live in LA then! How's this for a better skyline?

Quaint. No wonder you don't have transportation problems; rural villages rarely do.

Now you're just being silly. It's not my fault that I live in such a vastly superior city to where most of you have to live. Not sure if it's about being smarter or luckier or what, but I'll take it!

San Diego is the 8th largest city and the 6th largest county by population in the US. We're like the 48th largest metropolitan area though. Want to know why? Because we are more spread out. As a result, we don't have the same kind of traffic issues that other large counties have. We don't have the same ridiculous commute times, and we don't have to build a huge expensive public transit system. Sadly, some idiot liberals keep trying to foist a larger transit system on us, but aside from some stupid and counterproductive success with the Trolley system, we've largely kept them at bay.

And we're much much much better off for it.

Yes, I'm sure you're much much better off in that cozy little community you've got going there. Sounds nice and peaceful.

I know! We should get rid of all big cities and spread everything even further out! That way no one can get anything done just so we can all drive through endless suburbs! You're right, you know; you're much better at this "urban planning" idea.
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#158 Sep 07 2011 at 5:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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Belkira the Tulip wrote:
Nadenu wrote:
Eske's a girl??


Nope.

No, I know that, I was just trying to point it out (unsuccessfully) to gbaji.
#159 Sep 07 2011 at 8:22 AM Rating: Good
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Nadenu wrote:
Belkira the Tulip wrote:
Nadenu wrote:
Eske's a girl??


Nope.

No, I know that, I was just trying to point it out (unsuccessfully) to gbaji.


I figured you knew that. I, too, was trying to point it out to gbaji, just in a more direct way.

What a maroon.
#160 Sep 07 2011 at 9:21 AM Rating: Good
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Belkira the Tulip wrote:
Nadenu wrote:
Belkira the Tulip wrote:
Nadenu wrote:
Eske's a girl??


Nope.

No, I know that, I was just trying to point it out (unsuccessfully) to gbaji.


I figured you knew that. I, too, was trying to point it out to gbaji, just in a more direct way.

What a maroon.


I hadn't even noticed that he said that. Why does everyone always assume that I'm a girl? Smiley: confused

PS: You know, if I had said, "Gbaji, I'm a guy." he would have responded with a 6 paragraph response detailing how, despite an absence of evidence, his assumption that I'm a girl was most certainly correct. And he'd blame the liberal media for tricking me into thinking otherwise.
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#161 Sep 07 2011 at 9:26 AM Rating: Good
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Eske Esquire wrote:
PS: You know, if I had said, "Gbaji, I'm a guy." he would have responded with a 6 paragraph response detailing how, despite an absence of evidence, his assumption that I'm a girl was most certainly correct. And he'd blame the liberal media for tricking me into thinking otherwise.


Smiley: lol

gbaji is out there, but I usually only see him being an ass stubbornly obstinate on political issues.

And rape.
#162 Sep 07 2011 at 9:32 AM Rating: Good
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That isn't a penis, you liberal pinko Nazi. It's an oversized clitoris. Fuck, you can't even tell the difference, yet someone on the other side of the country can.
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#163 Sep 07 2011 at 10:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
That isn't a penis, you liberal pinko Nazi. It's an oversized clitoris. Fuck, you can't even tell the difference, yet someone on the other side of the country can.

It's oversized due to mutations from public transit fumes.
#164 Sep 07 2011 at 7:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Metro area is the most arbitrary and also unfair measure to use though. It's arbitrary because it isn't defined by an actual political or economic boundaries, and it's unfair because it weights towards large centralized cities with mass transit leading in and out (it's part of the **** definition of a metropolitan area in fact).

Yeah, why on EARTH would you want to use a definition based on commuter area when discussing mass transit and commuting?!?


Um... Because cities which have built up larger mass transit systems will tend to therefore encompass more people within that mass transit system. It's circular to then argue that because the largest metro areas all use mass transit systems that this means that mass transit is "better". Um... They are larger because they have more mass transit! It doesn't tell us anything about whether they are "better" in any way. Just that more people are connected via that metro system.

Counties which do not utilize as much mass transit (especially trains and subways) will tend to be broken up into more metro areas because each city within the county is more likely to run its own bus system. That's why San Diego can be the 8th largest city, and the 6th largest county, but only the 17th largest metro area (all by population).

Quote:
The Wiki page uses the OMB definitions of metro area, by the way. You know, those areas without any non-arbitrary boundaries and stuff...


Which is defined as an area around a city with a population of at least 50k which is serviced by a single common set of transportation systems. Surely, you can grasp how areas which have spent lots of money connecting the city center and all the surrounding areas by train are going to tend to therefore include all those surrounding areas in their corresponding metro-area, while cities which do not do this will not? Or is that difference between San Diego's population ranking as a city and county versus metro area just an unsolved mystery to you?


It's like your brain cells are firing, but no information is moving around.
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#165 Sep 07 2011 at 7:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Eske Esquire wrote:
I hadn't even noticed that he said that. Why does everyone always assume that I'm a girl? Smiley: confused


Because "Eske" sounds like a girl's name?

I'll try to remember in the future, but I can't make any promises. Hell, I can't remember who I just quoted half the time, so what the **** do you expect? Smiley: bah
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#166 Sep 07 2011 at 8:08 PM Rating: Good
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RESEARCH! FACT CHECKING! HOW DO THEY WORK!?
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#167 Sep 07 2011 at 8:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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Eske Esquire wrote:
Why does everyone always assume that I'm a girl? Smiley: confused


I sympathize. People assume I'm male, and I can't figure out why.
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#168 Sep 07 2011 at 8:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
It's like your brain cells are firing, but no information is moving around.

Says the guy who started this by saying "Oh HO!" about someone who commutes into New York using the train and how this must mean New York didn't have enough roads to use commuting into the city due to the choking conspiracy of mass transit.

But now a city's commuter area doesn't matter. Not at all. Please, stop talking about it and only talk about city limits.

Yeah. Huh.
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#169 Sep 08 2011 at 3:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Belkira the Tulip wrote:
Nadenu wrote:
Eske's a girl??
Nope.
gbaji keeps saying it, so Eske must be a girl.


someproteinguy wrote:
Eske Esquire wrote:
Why does everyone always assume that I'm a girl? Smiley: confused


I sympathize. People assume I'm male, and I can't figure out why.


I see you've gotten my memo.
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#170 Sep 08 2011 at 7:52 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Eske Esquire wrote:
I hadn't even noticed that he said that. Why does everyone always assume that I'm a girl? Smiley: confused


Because "Eske" sounds like a girl's name?

I'll try to remember in the future, but I can't make any promises. Hell, I can't remember who I just quoted half the time, so what the **** do you expect? Smiley: bah


IIRC, it's a northern European boy's name. It doesn't strike me as feminine, personally. Also, "esquire" is typically masculine.

Now, Demea, I could understand...most names ending in an "a" are feminine.
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#171 Sep 08 2011 at 7:55 AM Rating: Good
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Eske is Norse for Spear of the Gods.
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#172 Sep 08 2011 at 9:03 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Eske is Norse for Spear of the Gods.


Sounds pretty girly.
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#173 Sep 08 2011 at 7:33 PM Rating: Good
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Uh oh! Southern California is out of power! Cue gbaji complaining about driving home with no traffic lights...wait, his computer's out too. OH THE HUMANITY!
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#174 Sep 08 2011 at 7:38 PM Rating: Decent
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Debalic wrote:
Uh oh! Southern California is out of power! Cue gbaji complaining about driving home with no traffic lights...wait, his computer's out too. OH THE HUMANITY!


Actually, it is pretty funny watching folks trying to drive with no traffic lights. Traffic density plus no traffic control equals gridlock (didn't we have a thread about this?). Sadly, I don't have power for my computer, so I can't post this witty bit.
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#175 Sep 08 2011 at 7:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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WSJ wrote:
Most of Southern Orange County was without power, causing major traffic congestion as the outage hit at the height of rush hour, leaving major intersections without traffic lights

Know what would be sweet right there? A train.
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#176 Sep 08 2011 at 7:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
WSJ wrote:
Most of Southern Orange County was without power, causing major traffic congestion as the outage hit at the height of rush hour, leaving major intersections without traffic lights

Know what would be sweet right there? A train.


Trains are working (like diesel-electric trains), but the trolley system is not. No power, remember? I'm pretty sure that the NYC subways would be offline in a similar event. Um... So thank god we all use cars and can get home instead of being stuck where we are for 12-24 hours. yay!

Edited, Sep 8th 2011 6:50pm by gbaji
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#177 Sep 08 2011 at 7:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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Good thing I said "train" and not "subway", huh? You'd almost think there was a reason for it.
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#178 Sep 08 2011 at 8:00 PM Rating: Good
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The only time I can remember that there's been enough of a power issue to take out our subways was like ... 2003(? Might be before or after) when almost the entire Northeast was knocked out. So ... I guess that's kind of similar to roving blackouts in one rural village.
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#179 Sep 08 2011 at 8:03 PM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
The only time I can remember that there's been enough of a power issue to take out our subways was like ... 2003(? Might be before or after) when almost the entire Northeast was knocked out. So ... I guess that's kind of similar to roving blackouts in one rural village.

Yeah, it was 2003 when the entire Northeast lost power. What did New Yorkers do? Go outside and barbecue.
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#180 Sep 08 2011 at 8:13 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
Good thing I said "train" and not "subway", huh? You'd almost think there was a reason for it.


Good thing that trains are the only form of mass transit we were discussing in that other thread. Because then there'd be no reason to mention subways.
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#181 Sep 08 2011 at 8:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Debalic wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
The only time I can remember that there's been enough of a power issue to take out our subways was like ... 2003(? Might be before or after) when almost the entire Northeast was knocked out. So ... I guess that's kind of similar to roving blackouts in one rural village.

Yeah, it was 2003 when the entire Northeast lost power. What did New Yorkers do? Go outside and barbecue.


Except for all the folks stuck wherever they were and who couldn't get home because they didn't own cars and the mass transit systems were largely down. I seem to recall pictures of miserable people sleeping on benches in subway stations waiting for the power to come back on.

Hmmmm...
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#182 Sep 08 2011 at 8:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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That was actually this thread. Try and keep up Smiley: laugh
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#183 Sep 08 2011 at 8:27 PM Rating: Good
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This is proof that New York's subways suck! With how common power outages that blackout half a dozen states and part of Canada, we should be looking at ways to improve them so people don't get stranded like that again.
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#184 Sep 08 2011 at 8:39 PM Rating: Decent
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gbaji wrote:
Debalic wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
The only time I can remember that there's been enough of a power issue to take out our subways was like ... 2003(? Might be before or after) when almost the entire Northeast was knocked out. So ... I guess that's kind of similar to roving blackouts in one rural village.

Yeah, it was 2003 when the entire Northeast lost power. What did New Yorkers do? Go outside and barbecue.


Except for all the folks stuck wherever they were and who couldn't get home because they didn't own cars and the mass transit systems were largely down. I seem to recall pictures of miserable people sleeping on benches in subway stations waiting for the power to come back on.

Hmmmm...

Yeah, unfortunately people will be inconvenienced whenever there's a power outage.
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#185 Sep 08 2011 at 8:42 PM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
This is proof that New York's subways suck! With how common power outages that blackout half a dozen states and part of Canada, we should be looking at ways to improve them so people don't get stranded like that again.


The point being that when such events occur in areas designed for car traffic, it's a minor inconvenience at best. When they happen in areas dependent on mass transit system (electric trains specifically), they cause massive problems for many people.
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#186 Sep 08 2011 at 8:43 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
The point is that in my head, I'm right.


Smiley: nod
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#187 Sep 08 2011 at 8:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Debalic wrote:

Yeah, unfortunately people will be inconvenienced whenever there's a power outage.


There's a pretty significant difference between "The traffic lights are out so my commute home took an extra half hour" and "The subway system is down, and I have no way to get home, so I'll have to fight the bums for a bench to sleep on tonight".
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#188 Sep 08 2011 at 8:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Nah, Giuliani got rid of the bums a long time ago.
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#189 Sep 08 2011 at 8:55 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
There's a pretty significant difference between "The traffic lights are out so my commute home took an extra half hour" and "The subway system is down, and I have no way to get home, so I'll have to fight the bums for a bench to sleep on tonight".
Well, there's also a significant difference between "Worst Power Outage in US History" and "Rural village has roving black outs!" I'll note that when we have small black outs like you, our traffic and subways are unaffected.
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#190 Sep 08 2011 at 9:05 PM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
gbaji wrote:
There's a pretty significant difference between "The traffic lights are out so my commute home took an extra half hour" and "The subway system is down, and I have no way to get home, so I'll have to fight the bums for a bench to sleep on tonight".
Well, there's also a significant difference between "Worst Power Outage in US History" and "Rural village has roving black outs!" I'll note that when we have small black outs like you, our traffic and subways are unaffected.


Um... Maybe you've failed to check the news, but the power is out from Southern Orange County, East to Yuma Arizona, and South into Baja California and Sonora (those are states in Mexico in case you are wondering). These are not "rolling blackouts". There is zero power to any area within about a 300 mile squared area. This is a power outage on the same scale as the one that hit the North East back then.

But hey! Continue with your whole "rural village" bit. It's fun!
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#191 Sep 08 2011 at 9:10 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
This is a power outage on the same scale as the one that hit the North East back then.
So you're saying 55 million people are without power.
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#192 Sep 08 2011 at 9:15 PM Rating: Decent
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In 2003,
Quote:
The blackout affected an estimated 10 million people in Ontario and 45 million people in eight U.S. states.

Let me know when the blackout reaches Los Angeles, San Francisco, Las Vegas, Phoenix and Mexico City. Then maybe we can start talking.
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#193 Sep 08 2011 at 9:15 PM Rating: Default
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lolgaxe wrote:
gbaji wrote:
This is a power outage on the same scale as the one that hit the North East back then.
So you're saying 55 million people are without power.


I'm saying that there is a similarly complete power outage in effect and with a similarly sized geographical area affected. Population is different, of course. But that doesn't change the severity at all for those who are without power, does it? This is not a power outage that affects some areas, but not all, or where residential power is out, but service power is on. This is an absolute, "no one has power unless they have their own generator" power outage.

Hence, similar to the one back in 2003. Certainly not like the "roving blackouts" you tried to dismiss this as.
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#194 Sep 08 2011 at 9:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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Of course, the other day I was driving home and a jackknifed semi in the other lanes on I-55 had traffic backed up for my entire commute. Luckily, I wasn't affected but by the time I hit my exit, the people in the other lanes were out of their cars and sitting on their hoods, they'd been stopped so long... some ten miles from where the actual accident was. Lord only knows when they got moving or how far back the stopped traffic went.

Minor half-hour inconvenience indeed.
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#195 Sep 08 2011 at 9:18 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
But that doesn't change the severity at all for those who are without power, does it?
Of course, if one person out in the woods is out of power he's "similarly affected" as 55 million people, but it's still silly to say the events themselves are anywhere remotely similar.
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#196 Sep 08 2011 at 9:29 PM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
gbaji wrote:
But that doesn't change the severity at all for those who are without power, does it?
Of course, if one person out in the woods is out of power he's "similarly affected" as 55 million people, but it's still silly to say the events themselves are anywhere remotely similar.


Nothing in between, huh? Can we agree that a total black out affecting a several hundred mile in every direction area is more similar to the outage in 2003 than one affecting one guy out in the woods?

At the point where you can't just travel a short distance to arrive at a location where the power is on, the "scale" in terms of effect on the population living in the area is the same. It doesn't really matter how many people are in the area, or even how large the area is for that matter. At the point where you'd have to drive (with no traffic even!) for well over an hour to get out of the affected area, it kinda doesn't matter, does it?
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#197 Sep 08 2011 at 9:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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I just know that if they had subways or train systems here, I'd use them.
#198 Sep 08 2011 at 9:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeah, comparing geographic area doesn't cut it when one of the geographic areas consists of large amounts of uninhabited desert. It's around 400 miles from Detroit to NYC and much more heavily populated than, say, Diego to, say, Nogales.
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#199 Sep 08 2011 at 9:36 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Can we agree that a total black out affecting a several hundred mile in every direction area is more similar to the outage in 2003 than one affecting one guy out in the woods?
Is this your way of saying your "severity for all without power" bit was wrong?
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#200 Sep 08 2011 at 9:40 PM Rating: Good
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Just to point out, it's being reported as 2m without power.
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#201 Sep 08 2011 at 9:48 PM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Just to point out, it's being reported as 2m without power.

Hell, there are boroughs with more people than that.
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