Aripyanfar said this:
Every one new person in the nation (like an immigrant, legal or illegal) creates one new job in the nation. So illegal immigrants are job neutral. There may be other problems with additional population, and not having control of your border, but illegals "stealing our jobs" aren't one of them
Which is why I asked her/him to explain how that is job creation. In response you said all this:
If all of your laborers are legal, you are going to be paying them a fairly high amount of money. That means the cost of your jobs goes up, so the amount you charge your customers goes up. That leads to a decrease in amount of jobs you get, which leads to a decrease in the number of laborers you can manage. Even on top of the decreased jobs coming in, each job takes longer because you need to obey labor laws (which means shorter hours, especially since you can't afford long shifts anyway). That FURTHER decreases your profit.
Now, suppose you replace some of those jobs with illegal immigrants. Do some Americans lose jobs there? Of course. But for every American you lose, you replace them with at least two illegal workers for the same cost, and they'll work longer hours.
Now, you get more workers for your investment, and are able to take on more jobs. Furthermore, because your costs per job are lower (since illegal workers will work for less AND work longer hours), you can afford to charge customers less, you have a much higher demand for your services.
As you get more jobs, your company will grow. You will employ more and more people (which will be a mix of illegal and legal workers). In time, your company is now employing more legal workers than it would have been able to support in the other scenario.
Now, so far, we have explained a situation which is good for you as a business owner. But you need to follow all the threads into the greater market (which of course means that you need to imagine a scenario in which many businesses utilize illegal labor).
1. You completing more jobs creates a higher demand for the goods your work requires, such as fertilizer, plants, concrete, bricks, etc. These businesses are now doing better and are able to higher more employees (some of which might be illegal, but many of whom won't be). That leads to more demand on the companies they use for their supplies/services.
2. Cash flow is the best thing for the health of a market. By keeping costs low, illegal workers help to keep money moving through our economy--they keep people spending. If costs were high because all we used was American labor, we WOULD NOT have this kind of flow, and that WOULD be unhealthy. Sure, we could ship all of those jobs to China and keep our low costs. But that's still not doing anything different from illegal workers, except that we send jobs that would have been filled by Americans as well. Not to mention the fact that small businesses, like our contractor, don't get to benefit from that and would still need to use a high-price model.
3. Not all businesses will benefit from illegal workers enough to warrant the risk. For instance, a grocery store. It might certainly have SOME illegal workers (primarily to unpack shipments). But they'd largely be legal workers. But they benefit hugely from illegal workers--they get to sell cheaper products across the board (such as produce) which leads to a larger amount sold. Lower prices creates a larger customer base. A larger customer base creates the need for more workers, like cashiers. Thus, they get to create jobs for legal workers that wouldn't be there if they needed to charge $4 an apple.
Which I guess is your way of saying "You're wrong Aripyanfar Illegal immigration does cost American jobs" which I find funny because you addressed your post to me not to him/her and never showed how illegal immigration creates jobs.
You showed how illegal immigration has a negative effect on American workers (beautifully I might add, although I don't think that was you're intention) and you did a great job of showing how illegal immigration increases profit for some companies (which I find strange because isn't it you liberals who are always **** about the evil capitalists stealing American jobs for profit? So I would assume you guys would be the first to run out to the nearest border to protect it)but I'm still waiting for you to explain how if you take something from someone and give it to someone else how that is "creating".
BTW You also stated this :
"As much as politicians **** and moan about illegal immigrants, the fact remains that our economy would shatter if they were all expelled from the US"
This is just blatantly false. It is also the same argument that illegal immigrant rights group try to push off as fact in almost every debate about illegal immigration (the other lie they try to pass off is that the illegal who crosses the border just looking for a job doesn't hurt anything that he/she is just a benign entity)
The fact is a large portion of the money the illegal immigrant makes in this country is never spent in the U.S it is sent back to their country of origin. This is the reason why countries like Mexico have a vested interest in encouraging illegals to cross the border because the money they send home funds their (corrupt) Government.
The simple fact is that whatever "good" the U.S. gets from illegal immigration is far outweighed by the negative effects of that same illegal immigration.
In all seriousness and being a grown up here I find it interesting that if you mention deporting people who entered this country illegaly you are called "racists" and "mean" and etc, etc, etc but if we actually upheld our immigration laws those workers wouldn't be allowed to be used for in essence "slave" labor anymore and if you simply tweek the existing laws to allow guest workers (which most people like the idea of as long as there is strict enforcement if the laws are broken) you could help maintain small business who use unskilled labor to survive all the while protecting those same workers.