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Not Obstructionist At All!Follow

#52 Aug 10 2011 at 5:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm going to go pretend to be someone else in a video game. Smiley: bah
#53 Aug 10 2011 at 5:02 PM Rating: Good
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AshOnMyTomatoes wrote:
So you did watch it? Smiley: grin

Actually no. I just saw you fawning over it Smiley: laugh

Ironically, I tend to ignore the "Oh, they're all the SAME!" ******* and moaning because that's all it ever is. No one ever has a real solution for all their "They're all the SAME!" ********* they just ***** about it and perhaps remove themselves from the process in a pout, making their opinion even more irrelevant.
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#54 Aug 10 2011 at 5:03 PM Rating: Good
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AshOnMyTomatoes wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
AshOnMyTomatoes wrote:
They're not quite as blatantly insane as the wingers have been lately, but they're all gaming the system.

Yes, you saw a video. Gratz.

So you did watch it? Smiley: grin

What's the point of continuing to argue about this, while the country falls apart around us? Why not start taking to task the actual problems?


For lulz? It's like you think that our job on the forum is to sow the seeds of peace and solve problems.
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#55 Aug 10 2011 at 5:04 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Ironically, I tend to ignore the "Oh, they're all the SAME!" ******* and moaning because that's all it ever is. No one ever has a real solution for all their "They're all the SAME!" ********* they just ***** about it and perhaps remove themselves from the process in a pout, making their opinion even more irrelevant.
It's a runaway problem, Joph. You can "tend to ignore it," but you can't tell me it isn't there. Until we stop pretending the theatrics of the left/right media circus is actually relevant, nothing will be done about it.
#56 Aug 10 2011 at 5:06 PM Rating: Good
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Eske Esquire wrote:
It's like you think that our job on the forum is to sow the seeds of peace and solve problems.
Where else is that going to happen in today's society? Smiley: frown
#57 Aug 10 2011 at 5:08 PM Rating: Good
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No, I said I tend to ignore those whining about it who don't even offer any real solutions.
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#58 Aug 10 2011 at 5:49 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
No, I said I tend to ignore those whining about it who don't even offer any real solutions.
Real solution #1: convince people to stop buying in to the left/right crap.

Real solution #2: focus those same people on changing our government. Meaning, stop electing sheisters who keep stringing us along on these pointless talking points while working to line their own pockets.
#59 Aug 10 2011 at 6:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't think you understand what "real solutions" are.

(1) Convince everyone to stop doing something!
(2) Make everyone do something different!
(3) ???
(4) Profit!
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#60 Aug 10 2011 at 6:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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At this point I don't even believe we have a multiparty system, but a bunch of high school cliques. All doing the same thing but trying to be unique about it.
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#61 Aug 10 2011 at 6:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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AshOnMyTomatoes wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
No, I said I tend to ignore those whining about it who don't even offer any real solutions.
Real solution #1: convince people to stop buying in to the left/right crap.

Real solution #2: focus those same people on changing our government. Meaning, stop electing sheisters who keep stringing us along on these pointless talking points while working to line their own pockets.


First you need to educate the Voters and make sure they can get to the polls. This is something supported by people who tend to be Liberals, while conservatives will actively work against groups that seek to educate voters (ACORN), that oppose their campaign rhetoric of how they will make America great again, while opposing social programs that benefit the poor.

I know of only one voter education group they haven't gone after yet, and I think it's may only be a matter of time until they do. What group am I talking about? The League of Women Voters, who have supported social causes while still being non-partisan for the most part, as traditionally they have been able to show strong support among both their Democrat and Republican Women (and male) members.

Push for Campaign Financial Reform that will actually take away power from large corporations and PAC's that keep the current crop of fat cat supporters in office. Tea Party is trying to hide the fact that the majority of it's money that went to finance the Congressional campaigns was from the Koch Brothers and other Right Wing groups with some rather deep pockets.

As long as we don't educate voters and allow rich donors to hide the money they give to PAC's we will keep electing the same ship of fools that have run us into the ground now.
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#62 Aug 10 2011 at 7:21 PM Rating: Decent
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****. Does this mean we could have impeached Bush for getting us mired in an unwinnable war against an intangible concept in an inhospitable region? Or is impeachment only for the more severe, world-shaking crimes against humanity like getting some action from that cute girl at the office?

Oh! I know! it's only for ****-hurt Republicans to use when they don't get their way and would rather bring the entire country to ruin than try to work out a compromise.
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#63 Aug 10 2011 at 8:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Nope. Ash is right. My point is about semantics. You fell all over yourself about the fact that the word "obstruct" was used, making the GOP "obstructionist". ****, it's in the **** thread title you chose to write.

You can make a valid argument against something without flying off the **** handle with the semantically loaded terminology Joph. Try it once maybe.

You're crying this hard about a word used in the very story?


Who used the word Joph? The politician? The person asking the question? Or the person who wrote the article? As I said before, it's completely unclear who used the word "obstruct".

But you chose to take that word choice and run with it, didn't you?

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Anything to avoid admitting that this (Republican) guy is fucking retarded, I guess.


I don't know this particular Republican from Adam. You, on the other hand... ;)
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#64 Aug 10 2011 at 8:56 PM Rating: Decent
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ElneClare wrote:
First you need to educate the Voters and make sure they can get to the polls. This is something supported by people who tend to be Liberals, while conservatives will actively work against groups that seek to educate voters (ACORN), that oppose their campaign rhetoric of how they will make America great again, while opposing social programs that benefit the poor.


The problem is that voter "education" is often really voter "indoctrination". When your education consists of "Vote Democrat or <insert some scary thing here> will happen to you!", you're not really educating people, are you? You're just scaring them into voting the way you want. And when you take federal dollars conveniently handed to you by the very party you're "educating" people to vote for, I'd call that corruption.

Wouldn't you agree?

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Push for Campaign Financial Reform that will actually take away power from large corporations and PAC's that keep the current crop of fat cat supporters in office.


Why single out large corporations? Why is a chunk of change used to express political opinions bad when it's spent by a for-profit organization, but good when spent by a non-profit? It's still about speech. The people collectively represented by a corporation's money have just as much right to be heard as the people collectively represented by a non-profits money. It's completely arbitrary to treat them differently. If anything, it's more of a conflict of interest and potentially corrupt if the non-profit receives public money, isn't it?


Quote:
Tea Party is trying to hide the fact that the majority of it's money that went to finance the Congressional campaigns was from the Koch Brothers and other Right Wing groups with some rather deep pockets.


And? This is true of all national campaigns. The Tea Party is just one organization. Are you seriously arguing that they should not support any candidate who accepts funding from any other organization at all? That seems somewhat... unfair. Do I now get to point out that Obama took more money from big oil companies, and big deep pocket corporations than his opponent did in the last election? Does that mean that you'll fight against his re-election now?

If that argument doesn't work for you, why expect it should work for anyone else? It's BS rhetoric.

Quote:
As long as we don't educate voters and allow rich donors to hide the money they give to PAC's we will keep electing the same ship of fools that have run us into the ground now.


No one's hiding anything. I agree that some sort of campaign reform is needed. However, it's a problem that crosses partisan lines pretty completely. It's more than unfair to hold one "side" to a higher standard than another or to use the issue of campaign finance to take cheap shots at just the other "side". It's a far far more complex issue than that, and we do it a disservice by simplifying it down to "that politician I don't like took money from <group I also don't like>".
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#65 Aug 10 2011 at 9:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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Good news, Rep. Burgess has been backpedaling from his comments Smiley: laugh


Edited, Aug 10th 2011 10:27pm by Jophiel
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#66 Aug 10 2011 at 10:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
The problem is that voter "education" is often really voter "indoctrination". When your education consists of "Vote Democrat or <insert some scary thing here> will happen to you!", you're not really educating people, are you? You're just scaring them into voting the way you want

This goes both ways. I don't know how many times I heard "If you don't vote Republican, the terrorists are going to win"
#67 Aug 10 2011 at 11:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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Funny how "obstruct" makes Gbaji freak out but he sees no problem with throwing around "indoctrination" at the drop of a hat Smiley: laugh
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#68 Aug 10 2011 at 11:25 PM Rating: Good
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Abortion? Who gives a sh*t?

*** marriage? Completely unimportant.

Environmental issues? Important, but not an emergency.

Creationism in schools? God in the pledge? Michelle Obama's latest exploits? It's all a @#%^ing ruse designed to keep us sated, fat, arguing, and stupid.


Exactly. Abortion, who needs that? Women, right? So no people are affected. It's just an unimportant scrap of meat for the plebs to squabble over.

Quote:
Seems like more and more, these days, both the conservatives AND liberals of this board are falling into the trap of armchair pundit finger-pointing.


It's nice that, despite a set of circumstances universally deemed pathetic by our culture, you've managed to convince yourself you're above both.

Let me be frank. You've fallen pretty much peg-perfect into this stereotype, so I can see why you'd want us to fall into yours, but I don't really think most of the people here are massively into politicians of either party. I guess what's saddest about this is this transformation was brought about by some eight minute video. Congrats, really. You are the youtube prophet.

In summary:

Jophiel wrote:
Yes, you saw a video. Gratz.
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#69 Aug 11 2011 at 7:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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I just feel it very funny that gbaji automatically assumes I meant only Democrat when I mention voter education.The LWV always has gone out of it's way to educate voters about all sides of issues.
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#70 Aug 11 2011 at 7:45 AM Rating: Good
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I don't think that obstructing a harmful agenda is a bad idea.


If you're trying to create and exploit loopholes in the democratic process because YOU think an agenda is harmful, then it absolutely is a bad idea. But thinking was never your strong suit, I guess.

Honestly, what needs to quit is the fucking moronic failure to acknowledge the plausible viability of EITHER side's economic policies. We don't have economics completely figured out, obviously, and pretending like half the country are rabid brainwashed loons rather than being of a different mind is childish and destructive.

I'm a liberal. I think the government can do a lot of valuable things that you can't leave up to the free market. I don't think that there can never be too many taxes, government can never be too big, spending can't be too high, etc. I just know that this implicit compromise between the left and the right that, "Fine, the left can have their spending, as long as the right gets their tax cuts," is asinine, and EITHER side being completely stubborn isn't going to accomplish anything. Representatives NEED to start promoting more centrist views.

And if it were the left that were making a policy--****, a mission-- of stubbornly obstructing attempts at compromise, I'd be calling them out on it, too.

Quote:
Abortion? Who gives a sh*t?

*** marriage? Completely unimportant.

Environmental issues? Important, but not an emergency.

Creationism in schools?


Frankly, those things are and should be important to everybody. You're not going to find many liberals that won't fervently insist one way nor many conservatives who don't insist the other (aside from the laughable religious examples you included, which is just depressing).

Edited, Aug 11th 2011 6:47am by Kachi
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#71 Aug 11 2011 at 8:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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Kachi wrote:
Frankly, those things are and should be important to everybody.

The whole "They're all the same thing" makes me think of someone saying "That seeing-eye dog and that wolf are both canines, both eat meat and both bark & wag their tails. The minor differences are irrelevant; they're both dogs and hence both the same thing so who cares which one is in my house?"
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#72 Aug 11 2011 at 9:29 AM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
Kachi wrote:
Frankly, those things are and should be important to everybody.

The whole "They're all the same thing" makes me think of someone saying "That seeing-eye dog and that wolf are both canines, both eat meat and both bark & wag their tails. The minor differences are irrelevant; they're both dogs and hence both the same thing so who cares which one is in my house?"

Dude, I've always wanted a timber wolf as a pet. He would hunt deer for me and we'd eat venison steaks together!
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#73 Aug 11 2011 at 9:32 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
I don't think that obstructing a harmful agenda is a bad idea.
That it's harmful is only our opinion.

The president is our elected leader. You don't see any problem with another law-maker making bogus impeachment attempts to, admittedly, hinder our governmental process?

That's pretty cheesy, even for politicians.

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#74 Aug 11 2011 at 9:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
You don't see any problem with another law-maker making bogus impeachment attempts to, admittedly, hinder our governmental process?

What if Obama got a ********? That'd be worth a totally non-politically-motivated impeachment process, right?
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#75 Aug 11 2011 at 10:05 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Elinda wrote:
You don't see any problem with another law-maker making bogus impeachment attempts to, admittedly, hinder our governmental process?

What if Obama got a ********? That'd be worth a totally non-politically-motivated impeachment process, right?
I was gonna say it depends on who's giving out the presidential bj. But even if it's Michelle there's probably some sodomy law that would prohibit such behavior.

We can't have our commander-in-chief splooging all over important papers!

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#76 Aug 11 2011 at 10:08 AM Rating: Excellent
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Well, it is against UCMJ ...
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#77varusword75, Posted: Aug 11 2011 at 10:20 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Elinda,
#78varusword75, Posted: Aug 11 2011 at 10:22 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Kachi,
#79varusword75, Posted: Aug 11 2011 at 10:24 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) xantav,
#80 Aug 11 2011 at 10:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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Always good to see the education level of our esteemed history teachers. Smiley: popcorn
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#81 Aug 11 2011 at 10:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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varusword75 wrote:
It's only your opinion that they're bogus. They're well within their right to present their argument.

No, the critter said he'd do it just to hinder the administration. That's pretty much the definition of bogus Smiley: lol
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#82varusword75, Posted: Aug 11 2011 at 10:32 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Locked,
#83 Aug 11 2011 at 10:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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varusword75 wrote:
Locked,

It's the seriousness of the allegation not the sincerity of the messenger that counts right?


It's having an actual allegation in the first place Smiley: nod
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#84varusword75, Posted: Aug 11 2011 at 10:34 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Lagaga,
#85varusword75, Posted: Aug 11 2011 at 10:34 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Locked,
#86 Aug 11 2011 at 10:34 AM Rating: Good
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varusword75 wrote:
Elinda,

It's only your opinion that they're bogus. They're well within their right to present their argument.


Lol, apparently they've not been convincing enough with the argument they've presented. So now they have to go outside the rules of the game to 'obstruct' the process. Frickin cheaters. Why do you support cheaters Varus?
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#87 Aug 11 2011 at 10:34 AM Rating: Good
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I double-posted.

...I've made my wish.

Edited, Aug 11th 2011 6:35pm by Elinda
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#88varusword75, Posted: Aug 11 2011 at 10:37 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Elinda,
#89 Aug 11 2011 at 10:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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Gumbo Galahad wrote:
Why don't you educate yourself on why 30seals were sent into a hot zone with a slow outdated helicopter when newer faster ones were available.
Yeah, what kind of president would send troops into a hot zone with outdated military equipment!
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#90 Aug 11 2011 at 10:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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While we wait for you to come up with a conspiracy theory on that, the answer was "all of them."
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#91varusword75, Posted: Aug 11 2011 at 11:02 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) lagaga,
#92 Aug 11 2011 at 11:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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varusword75 wrote:
Not seals you moron. Maybe the rank and file but not the elite of the elite. Do you know how much it costs the govn to train seals?

ITT: Varus is fine with sending under-equipped soldiers into hot zones because they cost less.

Jesus man, I know you have a pathological need to support Republican military decisions, but that's pretty messed up.

Edited, Aug 11th 2011 1:08pm by LockeColeMA
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#93 Aug 11 2011 at 11:10 AM Rating: Good
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Gumbo Galahad wrote:
Not seals you moron.
Ha ha, it's cute you think the rifle and body armor a Seal gets is different than the rifle and body armor a specialist in Finance gets. It's even cuter you think that vehicles would be any different! Smiley: laugh
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#94 Aug 11 2011 at 11:13 AM Rating: Good
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The answer was "M4a1 Carbine and IOTV," if you're furiously googling for it.

Edited, Aug 11th 2011 1:53pm by lolgaxe
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#95 Aug 11 2011 at 2:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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AshOnMyTomatoes wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
AshOnMyTomatoes wrote:
They're not quite as blatantly insane as the wingers have been lately, but they're all gaming the system.

Yes, you saw a video. Gratz.

So you did watch it? Smiley: grin

The point stands. What's the point of continuing to argue about this, while the country falls apart around us? Why not start taking to task the actual problems?


That would involve work.
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#96 Aug 11 2011 at 3:28 PM Rating: Decent
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varusword75 wrote:
Kachi,

Quote:
. I don't think that there can never be too many taxes


Well you're an idiot. And one can expect nothing less than idiotic statements from such as you.



Are you at least smart enough to understand why that doesn't have even the least little bit of sting coming from you?
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

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Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#97 Aug 11 2011 at 4:48 PM Rating: Decent
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ElneClare wrote:
I just feel it very funny that gbaji automatically assumes I meant only Democrat when I mention voter education.The LWV always has gone out of it's way to educate voters about all sides of issues.


Huh? This is the exact exchange, with my response:


gbaji wrote:
ElneClare wrote:
First you need to educate the Voters and make sure they can get to the polls. This is something supported by people who tend to be Liberals, while conservatives will actively work against groups that seek to educate voters (ACORN), that oppose their campaign rhetoric of how they will make America great again, while opposing social programs that benefit the poor.


The problem is that voter "education" is often really voter "indoctrination". When your education consists of "Vote Democrat or <insert some scary thing here> will happen to you!", you're not really educating people, are you? You're just scaring them into voting the way you want. And when you take federal dollars conveniently handed to you by the very party you're "educating" people to vote for, I'd call that corruption.


You spoke of voter education. Then you said that this is something supported by liberals and opposed by conservatives, using ACORN as an example. And you think it's funny that I assume you meant only Democrat (I assume you mean "education which favors Democrats") when you mention voter education? It should be reasonably apparent that if a given example of voter education is supported by one ideology and opposed by another that said example is likely not so much about educating voters as it is about influencing voters. That's *why* the other "side" opposes it.


Your comments about the league of women's voters also mentioned that conservatives haven't opposed it. Didn't it occur to you that this might be because it's *not* as blatantly about influence as groups like ACORN? Conservatives are not opposed to "voter education". We're opposed to voter indoctrination, doubly so when public funds are involved. And IMO there's nothing wrong with that at all.
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#98 Aug 11 2011 at 4:55 PM Rating: Decent
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Elinda wrote:
gbaji wrote:
I don't think that obstructing a harmful agenda is a bad idea.
That it's harmful is only our opinion.


And I have a right to it, don't I? What's the alternative? You get to decide what is actually harmful and what isn't and make it illegal to oppose things you don't think are harmful? That seems a bit overboard, right? So how about accepting that it's perfectly legitimate for those who oppose given political actions to... well... oppose them.

Quote:
The president is our elected leader. You don't see any problem with another law-maker making bogus impeachment attempts to, admittedly, hinder our governmental process?


Did he make an "impeachment attempt"? I thought that what happened was a random person in a crowd asked him about whether or not it would slow down the Obama agenda if we impeached him, and the congressman said "yeah, it would tie up his agenda" (or something like that). Get back to me when he files articles of impeachment and calls for a vote or something. Absent that, this is just him answering a question, not some broad statement of intent.


Quote:
That's pretty cheesy, even for politicians.


What was he supposed to do? Fall over himself insisting to one of his constituents that it would be wrong to impeach the president because there isn't sufficient cause and it would be inappropriate to do so just to slow down his agenda? Or should he just kinda go with the question, get some laughs from the crowd, and move on? This is only even a deal at all because there's a liberal movement out there that apparently does nothing at all but scan every blog, news story, and event to try to find something which can be twisted around in a negative way against Republicans and/or Conservatives.


It's literally much ado about nothing.
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#99 Aug 11 2011 at 5:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
indoctrination

Smiley: laugh
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#100 Aug 12 2011 at 5:39 PM Rating: Excellent
Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
indoctrination

Smiley: laugh
Don't laugh at gbaji. He has first hand experience with indoctrination!
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#101 Aug 14 2011 at 7:41 AM Rating: Decent
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Did Gibaji learn to be more concise or did they implement a character limit on posts in the last year and a half that I have been gone?
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Sinclair Lewis wrote:
When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.

Advertising is a valuable economic factor because it is the cheapest way of selling goods, particularly if the goods are worthless.


J.F. Kennedy wrote:
Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.



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