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Sitrep: London looting and riotingFollow

#27 Aug 09 2011 at 3:38 PM Rating: Good
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zukunftsangst wrote:
RedPhoenixxx wrote:
If I hadn't heard about it on the news, I wouldn't have noticed. It's pretty bad in some places, although nowhere near as bad as the Paris riots a few years ago, but London is a big city. In most places everything is going on exactly as normal.

As for the analysis of the riots, they're not racial, not religious, they're simply caused by long-term deprivation, unemployment, and lack of community cohesion in certain London suburbs. Add to that a healthy dose of opportunist consumerism, and that's the recipe. The shooting of that dude was the spark.

Having said that, it's not quite as bad as they make it out to be on the news.


I've heard there is a certain element of racial tension from multiple people I've talked to who live in London and the UK.


Not really, it's more economic.
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#28 Aug 09 2011 at 3:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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All over the world young opportunistic violence junkies in face-masks take over a lot of peaceful protests. It's interesting that French protests often devolve into burning cars... but not stealing and looting. The looting in London is pretty bad, if you're not living on a desperate edge. But what really appals me about the present London riots is the major arson of buildings. I understand many police and private citizens have been injured. With blazes consuming whole city blocks, and consuming tenanted flats above shops, it's a miracle and a mercy that no one has died yet.

Australia had the Cronulla race based riots a couple years ago, which I'm deeply ashamed happened in my country. I thank the universe major arson didn't happen here during those riots.
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#29varusword75, Posted: Aug 09 2011 at 3:41 PM, Rating: Unrated, (Expand Post) It's the blacks in the UK that are running wild just like the blacks in the US.
#30 Aug 09 2011 at 3:43 PM Rating: Good
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It's not just the blacks Varus, it's the underclass. Specifically underclass teenagers. Smiley: rolleyes

Edited, Aug 9th 2011 5:44pm by Nilatai
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#31 Aug 09 2011 at 3:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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#32 Aug 09 2011 at 3:45 PM Rating: Good
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zukunftsangst wrote:
I've heard there is a certain element of racial tension from multiple people I've talked to who live in London and the UK.

From what I've seen that was just played as an excuse for general lawlessness by the oppresses lower class.

Apparently this doesn't hold a candle to what locked down Philadelphia. I hear they're sending in the National Guard.
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#33 Aug 09 2011 at 3:46 PM Rating: Good
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Aripyanfar wrote:
it's a miracle and a mercy that no one has died yet.

I 26 year old man died yesterday actually, of gunshot wounds.
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#34 Aug 09 2011 at 3:50 PM Rating: Default
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Nilatai wrote:
zukunftsangst wrote:
RedPhoenixxx wrote:
If I hadn't heard about it on the news, I wouldn't have noticed. It's pretty bad in some places, although nowhere near as bad as the Paris riots a few years ago, but London is a big city. In most places everything is going on exactly as normal.

As for the analysis of the riots, they're not racial, not religious, they're simply caused by long-term deprivation, unemployment, and lack of community cohesion in certain London suburbs. Add to that a healthy dose of opportunist consumerism, and that's the recipe. The shooting of that dude was the spark.

Having said that, it's not quite as bad as they make it out to be on the news.


I've heard there is a certain element of racial tension from multiple people I've talked to who live in London and the UK.


Not really, it's more economic.


I don't know if a bunch of mandemz playing smash and grab counts as an economic protest. I imagine the motivation of the majority is "Show up at 11, throw some stones at the police and get a free TV!", which is what most of the social networking updates by participants basically say. As I've heard it, there's substantial mistrust between the minority figures and the police. It would seem to be not entirely mis-founded, given that the police issue bullet that ended up in the officers radio.

Tottenham is meant to be a pretty ****** area, right? Something like 30% Asian and 50% black, with those groups not generally being fond of each other (I've been told). Some news articles indicate that the majority of participants are young, black men. Whereas Turks and Kurds are forming sort of vigilante mobs to protect their shops.

I would say there are a whole host of issues at play here, race being one of them but not the most significant.
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#35 Aug 09 2011 at 3:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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It's not an economic protest. It's a riot.

It started off as a protest, because of that guy getting shot in the chest and dying. Then some girl got in some copper's face, copper restrained her and then people started burning and looting shit. A lot of these people have no idea what the rioting is over, they just want some free stuff and to cause some anarchy.

It's a bit like Michael Cain's line from batman about watching the world burn.
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#36varusword75, Posted: Aug 09 2011 at 3:58 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Debo,
#37 Aug 09 2011 at 4:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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Gumbo Galahad wrote:
Do you think this might be a good reason for Obama to step up and be a leader
We all know that no matter what he does, you'll just condemn it. Why even try to pretend?
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#38 Aug 09 2011 at 4:04 PM Rating: Decent
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The **** is happening in Philadelphia?
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#39 Aug 09 2011 at 4:07 PM Rating: Good
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zukunftsangst wrote:
The @#%^ is happening in Philadelphia?

MAYHEM! ANARCHY! DOWN WITH THE GOVERNMENT!
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#40 Aug 09 2011 at 4:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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varusword75 wrote:
p.s. Don't tell Joph they're sending in the national guard, that'll just upset him more.

Thank God you failed out of education because you are fucking rock stupid. State national guard units are generally activated by the governor of their respective state. Go figure, huh?

Edit: That said, Google news turns up nothing for Philadelphia national guard

Edited, Aug 9th 2011 5:23pm by Jophiel
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#41 Aug 09 2011 at 4:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Debalic wrote:
zukunftsangst wrote:
The @#%^ is happening in Philadelphia?

MAYHEM! ANARCHY! DOWN WITH THE GOVERNMENT!


Best of luck to them. Maybe I'll send some rice.
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#42 Aug 09 2011 at 4:40 PM Rating: Good
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man is this guy ever trolling: http://twitter.com/#!/solaar

and people just eat it up...
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#43 Aug 09 2011 at 5:00 PM Rating: Good
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Iron Chef Olorinus wrote:
man is this guy ever trolling: http://twitter.com/#!/solaar

and people just eat it up...

Epic troll is epic.
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#44 Aug 09 2011 at 5:21 PM Rating: Good
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I think it is time for David Cameron to step down and for the rest of the free world to recognise the rioters as the legitimate government of the UK.

The US and Nato should make their military availiable for airstrikes to protect civilians from the barbarous retaliation from government forces that will follow if Cameron continues to refuse to leave.
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#45 Aug 09 2011 at 5:22 PM Rating: Good
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I friend of mine from college who moved to London shortly after graduating said he got home today someone was being arrested right on his doorstep. He was laughing at all the people being arrested up til that point, now he's got himself locked up in his home waiting out the rioting.



Nilatai wrote:
Iron Chef Olorinus wrote:
man is this guy ever trolling: http://twitter.com/#!/solaar

and people just eat it up...

Epic troll is epic.


I can't understand some of the replies. SMS Language + British slang?

Quote:
get ur self to *** ur doing me head in n get to *** out my country


I don't know what he's trying to say with that second part.
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#46 Aug 09 2011 at 5:38 PM Rating: Decent
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TirithRR the Eccentric wrote:
I friend of mine from college who moved to London shortly after graduating said he got home today someone was being arrested right on his doorstep. He was laughing at all the people being arrested up til that point, now he's got himself locked up in his home waiting out the rioting.



Nilatai wrote:
Iron Chef Olorinus wrote:
man is this guy ever trolling: http://twitter.com/#!/solaar

and people just eat it up...

Epic troll is epic.


I can't understand some of the replies. SMS Language + British slang?

Quote:
get ur self to *** ur doing me head in n get to *** out my country


I don't know what he's trying to say with that second part.


Ahem.

"I find you to be very contemptible. Your statements are simply not cricket. Barely understandable I should think. As well, I have objections to the number and behaviour of immigrants in old blighty.

This whole affair simply isn't cricket. Don't put the kettle on, I'm just going to get me umbrella. Harrumph, harrumph.

Sorry for any inconvenience this may cause you."
#47 Aug 09 2011 at 5:45 PM Rating: Good
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TirithRR the Eccentric wrote:
Nilatai wrote:
Iron Chef Olorinus wrote:
man is this guy ever trolling: http://twitter.com/#!/solaar

and people just eat it up...

Epic troll is epic.


I can't understand some of the replies. SMS Language + British slang?

Quote:
get ur self to *** ur doing me head in n get to *** out my country


I don't know what he's trying to say with that second part.

Stupid people are just plain retarded.

As far as I can tell it says "Get yourself to fuck, you're doing my head in. Get the fuck out of my country".

Doesn't make sense really. Stuff like this will always bring people who support the EDL (English Defence League) out of the woodwork. They'll blame it on race, rather than class. Unfortunately this is the result of bored underclass teens with no prospects thinking they can get away with something. It'll blow over in a few days, then we just have to rebuild.

It's not skin off the back of any one rioting though, I doubt very much any of them pay tax. Things like this make it very difficult to keep a left wing stance, personally.
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#48 Aug 09 2011 at 6:13 PM Rating: Good
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Nilatai wrote:

It's not skin off the back of any one rioting though, I doubt very much any of them pay tax. Things like this make it very difficult to keep a left wing stance, personally.


I don't see why. A disintegrating (un)civil society is, in my mind anyway, evidence of how years of right wing policies have done nothing but create alienation and a culture of thuggery.

It is clear these people, whether they pay taxes or not, feel they have no stake in their communities, their neighbourhoods, or in society as a whole. And you can't hardly blame them for not paying taxes when years of "free trade" highway robbery has sent their jobs elsewhere.

It is ridiculous to think that cuts to programs that enhance social mobility (such as subsidized uni) combined with nothing but the crappiest jobs available for anyone not born of means wouldn't result in this kind of insanity. Also, I am not sure about your school system but if it is like any other school system in the english world over the last decade and a half of uber conservatism, it has been constantly under attack, underfunded, and lacking any innovation or changes to meet 21st century realities.

The MP for Tottingham predicted this kind of event when the cuts came down. And he was right.

What do you expect happens when you offer a significant portion of your society no means of living but working at Tesco for the rest of their lives, or Micky Ds or Subway (or whatever) - of course they are likely to become disenfranchised and prone to angry outbursts.

I am not excusing the incredibly poor behavior being shown here, but I don't think that abandoing principles which support lowering inequality and investing in those members of society who need it the most is a solution - it is growing inequality which is the root of the problem!

Obviously just tossing money at this problem won't solve it either. The roots go deeper. I am not sure about the comprehensive solution, but I do think the first step is fighting for more social mobility by fighting for better public education and MORE not less access to university.
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#49 Aug 09 2011 at 6:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Nilatai wrote:
Doesn't make sense really. Stuff like this will always bring people who support the EDL (English Defence League) out of the woodwork. They'll blame it on race, rather than class. Unfortunately this is the result of bored underclass teens with no prospects thinking they can get away with something. It'll blow over in a few days, then we just have to rebuild.

It's not skin off the back of any one rioting though, I doubt very much any of them pay tax. Things like this make it very difficult to keep a left wing stance, personally.


That's a big part of the problem. It's not about race physically, but race tends to be a social factor which coincides with the whole underclass angle. Heaven forbid anyone consider maybe *not* creating and sustaining the very social safety nets which create such large concentrations of underclass in the first place. It's a tough trap to get out of once in though.
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#50 Aug 09 2011 at 6:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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No I don't mean the solution should be by right wing means, it's just watching my home town burn makes it hard to be logical. It's a lot easier to think to yourself "why aren't these cunts being shot?".


I agree with everything you just said, though.
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#51 Aug 09 2011 at 6:20 PM Rating: Good
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Nilatai wrote:
No I don't mean the solution should be by right wing means, it's just watching my home town burn makes it hard to be logical. It's a lot easier to think to yourself "why aren't these cunts being shot?".


Wasn't proposing that at all. Just tossing the generic conservative "solution" of *not* doing things which seem to just create more social problems than we solve.


Quote:
I agree with everything you just said, though.


A rare treat! :)
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