...and smothered in soy sauce, will continue to move about. This is pretty bizarre. Not sure I'd be able to eat it.
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Alma wrote:
I lost my post
Think it's just a matter of nerves. Most things will still jerk about a bit after you kill them.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/6595481/Chinese-diners-eat-live-fish-in-YouTube-video.html
Reminds me of that.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/6595481/Chinese-diners-eat-live-fish-in-YouTube-video.html
Reminds me of that.
Creepy, gross, and kind of horrifying.
zukunftsangst wrote:
Think it's just a matter of nerves. Most things will still jerk about a bit after you kill them.
It is. The salt in the soy sauce triggers it.
Alma wrote:
I lost my post
Elinda wrote:
zukunftsangst wrote:
Think it's just a matter of nerves. Most things will still jerk about a bit after you kill them.
It is. The salt in the soy sauce triggers it.
Regardless, that still makes me feel incredibly bad. I couldn't even watch the entire 42 second video, I felt so bad for the poor thing.
I'd have guessed that a squid with its head cut off was a pile of loose tentacles.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Belkira the Tulip wrote:
Elinda wrote:
zukunftsangst wrote:
Think it's just a matter of nerves. Most things will still jerk about a bit after you kill them.
It is. The salt in the soy sauce triggers it.
Regardless, that still makes me feel incredibly bad. I couldn't even watch the entire 42 second video, I felt so bad for the poor thing.
I'm far from an expert (clearly) but I don't think the biological system of a squid is advanced enough for it to really suffer in that sort of situation.
Well, considering that I've done a "live" baby octopus sushi shot, this is something that I'd eat. After you eat balut, you can pretty much eat anything.
D'aww, it's dancing happily to be consumed.
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
zukunftsangst wrote:
I'm far from an expert (clearly) but I don't think the biological system of a squid is advanced enough for it to really suffer in that sort of situation.
Be that as it may, it's difficult to divorce that from seeing it in what I would assume would be the throws of agony.
Serious questions: So, if it's "just the nervous system reacting," what does that mean exactly? How do you know that it doesn't feel pain? Simply because it has no brain to tell it's body that it hurts?
I never did well in biology, so I've always been a little hazy on that sort of thing.
Belkira the Tulip wrote:
zukunftsangst wrote:
I'm far from an expert (clearly) but I don't think the biological system of a squid is advanced enough for it to really suffer in that sort of situation.
Be that as it may, it's difficult to divorce that from seeing it in what I would assume would be the throws of agony.
Serious questions: So, if it's "just the nervous system reacting," what does that mean exactly? How do you know that it doesn't feel pain? Simply because it has no brain to tell it's body that it hurts?
I never did well in biology, so I've always been a little hazy on that sort of thing.
I don't really know. It's something I learned in the course of hunting rather than school.
If you detach the head from the body then I reckon it's assured that the thing is dead. I don't figure it feeling much pain after that, despite its movement.
zukunftsangst wrote:
I don't really know. It's something I learned in the course of hunting rather than school.
If you detach the head from the body then I reckon it's assured that the thing is dead. I don't figure it feeling much pain after that, despite its movement.
If you detach the head from the body then I reckon it's assured that the thing is dead. I don't figure it feeling much pain after that, despite its movement.
I just don't know enough about biology to know what makes you feel pain.
Belkira the Tulip wrote:
Serious questions: So, if it's "just the nervous system reacting," what does that mean exactly? How do you know that it doesn't feel pain? Simply because it has no brain to tell it's body that it hurts?
I never did well in biology, so I've always been a little hazy on that sort of thing.
Pretty much. The salt provides the ion to create the electrical charge to fire the nerve synapse that's no longer being created by the agonized brain.
What I wonder is, if the squid was only unconscious but alive (of course it would still have to have it's head on) and you poured soy sauce on, would it act similarly?
Alma wrote:
I lost my post
Elinda wrote:
Pretty much. The salt provides the ion to create the electrical charge to fire the nerve synapse that's no longer being created by the agonized brain.
What I wonder is, if the squid was only unconscious but alive (of course it would still have to have it's head on) and you poured soy sauce on, would it act similarly?
What I wonder is, if the squid was only unconscious but alive (of course it would still have to have it's head on) and you poured soy sauce on, would it act similarly?
I imagine it would. It's probably an autonomous instinct to try to get away from something.
(I think I used autonomous correctly.)
Thumbelyna Quick Hands wrote:
Well, considering that I've done a "live" baby octopus sushi shot, this is something that I'd eat. After you eat balut, you can pretty much eat anything.
I've seen balut. It made me feel ill. There were feathers in it!
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Solrain wrote:
WARs can use semi-colons however we want. I once killed a guy with a semi-colon.
LordFaramir wrote:
ODESNT MATTER CAUSE I HAVE ALCHOLOL IN MY VEINGS BETCH ;3
Here's what lolwiki has to say on the issue:
Kind of interesting. Seems like the arms behave semi-autonomously. Unfortunately I couldn't find out anything about how that affects its pain reception.
Edited, Aug 1st 2011 3:11pm by Eske
wikipedia wrote:
An octopus has a highly complex nervous system, only part of which is localized in its brain. Two-thirds of an octopus's neurons are found in the nerve cords of its arms, which have limited functional autonomy. Octopus arms show a variety of complex reflex actions that persist even when they have no input from the brain.[9] Unlike vertebrates, the complex motor skills of octopuses are not organized in their brain using an internal somatotopic map of its body, as is the motor system in vertebrates[10] Some octopuses, such as the mimic octopus, will move their arms in ways that emulate the shape and movements of other sea creatures.
The neurological autonomy of the arms means that the octopus has great difficulty learning about the detailed effects of its motions. The brain may issue a high-level command to the arms, but the nerve cords in the arms execute the details. There is no neurological path for the brain to receive feedback about just how its command was executed by the arms; the only way it knows just what motions were made is by observing the arms visually.[13]
The neurological autonomy of the arms means that the octopus has great difficulty learning about the detailed effects of its motions. The brain may issue a high-level command to the arms, but the nerve cords in the arms execute the details. There is no neurological path for the brain to receive feedback about just how its command was executed by the arms; the only way it knows just what motions were made is by observing the arms visually.[13]
Kind of interesting. Seems like the arms behave semi-autonomously. Unfortunately I couldn't find out anything about how that affects its pain reception.
Edited, Aug 1st 2011 3:11pm by Eske
A lot of people won't eat menudo but I love it....that squid thing is just creepy.
varusword75 wrote:
A lot of people won't eat menudo but I love it....that squid thing is just creepy.
Au contraire, I find your sexual habits with Puerto Rican youth boy bands to be equally, if not more creepy.
Pain is a signal interpreted by the brain. No brain, no pain.
Just as Planned.
But the bulky nervous structure in cephalopod arms is what is responsible for this complex movement. There are many organism that substitute dense nerve structures for what we would call a brain. I don't specifically know what aspects of information are handled by the arms, but it's not as simple as "no brain, no pain."
Nadenu wrote:
Not gonna watch that, ugh.
It's very important that you run these in confluence.
http://i56.tinypic.com/2ezp5pv.gif
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R20f-TPKjzc#t=12s
It's essentially galvanization, which I imagine most people are familiar with. There was that fella named Galvani who used to electrocute dead frogs to make them twitch a couple of centuries ago. Naturally that kind of black magic caused quite a buzz back then.
Serious questions: So, if it's "just the nervous system reacting," what does that mean exactly? How do you know that it doesn't feel pain? Simply because it has no brain to tell it's body that it hurts?
Even insects are capable of feeling pain despite lacking a complex nervous system, but pain is not the same thing as suffering. Pain is just a sensory experience, like sight, temperature, hearing, etc.. Certain squid consist of some of the most intelligent species in the animal kingdom, which is probably new to no one.
That said, I sort of doubt that any animals are capable of suffering the way it is conceived of by humans. There's seemingly an exceptional amount of intelligence and working memory required to attain sentience, which is critical to the development of identity. Essentially, imagine if you were in crippling pain, but slept right through it. Or liken it to the experiences where you felt immense pain as an infant (which you surely don't recall at all).
To suffer, something must be able to recognize that it has an identity, that said identity is in peril, and it must be able to emote that realization. Couple that with even the fact that even the brightest animals would be considered profoundly retarded by human standards, and I wouldn't worry myself with their feelings. Those are my conclusions, at least.
Aren't you a pediatrician, or something? You probably stab little kids every day, right?
Quote:
Serious questions: So, if it's "just the nervous system reacting," what does that mean exactly? How do you know that it doesn't feel pain? Simply because it has no brain to tell it's body that it hurts?
Even insects are capable of feeling pain despite lacking a complex nervous system, but pain is not the same thing as suffering. Pain is just a sensory experience, like sight, temperature, hearing, etc.. Certain squid consist of some of the most intelligent species in the animal kingdom, which is probably new to no one.
That said, I sort of doubt that any animals are capable of suffering the way it is conceived of by humans. There's seemingly an exceptional amount of intelligence and working memory required to attain sentience, which is critical to the development of identity. Essentially, imagine if you were in crippling pain, but slept right through it. Or liken it to the experiences where you felt immense pain as an infant (which you surely don't recall at all).
To suffer, something must be able to recognize that it has an identity, that said identity is in peril, and it must be able to emote that realization. Couple that with even the fact that even the brightest animals would be considered profoundly retarded by human standards, and I wouldn't worry myself with their feelings. Those are my conclusions, at least.
Aren't you a pediatrician, or something? You probably stab little kids every day, right?
Kachi wrote:
It's essentially galvanization, which I imagine most people are familiar with. There was that fella named Galvani who used to electrocute dead frogs to make them twitch a couple of centuries ago. Naturally that kind of black magic caused quite a buzz back then.
Serious questions: So, if it's "just the nervous system reacting," what does that mean exactly? How do you know that it doesn't feel pain? Simply because it has no brain to tell it's body that it hurts?
Even insects are capable of feeling pain despite lacking a complex nervous system, but pain is not the same thing as suffering. Pain is just a sensory experience, like sight, temperature, hearing, etc.. Certain squid consist of some of the most intelligent species in the animal kingdom, which is probably new to no one.
That said, I sort of doubt that any animals are capable of suffering the way it is conceived of by humans. There's seemingly an exceptional amount of intelligence and working memory required to attain sentience, which is critical to the development of identity. Essentially, imagine if you were in crippling pain, but slept right through it. Or liken it to the experiences where you felt immense pain as an infant (which you surely don't recall at all).
To suffer, something must be able to recognize that it has an identity, that said identity is in peril, and it must be able to emote that realization. Couple that with even the fact that even the brightest animals would be considered profoundly retarded by human standards, and I wouldn't worry myself with their feelings. Those are my conclusions, at least.
Quote:
Serious questions: So, if it's "just the nervous system reacting," what does that mean exactly? How do you know that it doesn't feel pain? Simply because it has no brain to tell it's body that it hurts?
Even insects are capable of feeling pain despite lacking a complex nervous system, but pain is not the same thing as suffering. Pain is just a sensory experience, like sight, temperature, hearing, etc.. Certain squid consist of some of the most intelligent species in the animal kingdom, which is probably new to no one.
That said, I sort of doubt that any animals are capable of suffering the way it is conceived of by humans. There's seemingly an exceptional amount of intelligence and working memory required to attain sentience, which is critical to the development of identity. Essentially, imagine if you were in crippling pain, but slept right through it. Or liken it to the experiences where you felt immense pain as an infant (which you surely don't recall at all).
To suffer, something must be able to recognize that it has an identity, that said identity is in peril, and it must be able to emote that realization. Couple that with even the fact that even the brightest animals would be considered profoundly retarded by human standards, and I wouldn't worry myself with their feelings. Those are my conclusions, at least.
I think you're taking a ton of liberties with that conjecture.
Well feel free to publicize what you differ with, but it's less taking liberty and more a habitual history of being informed. It's always possible that my information is a miss, though.
Kachi wrote:
Well feel free to publicize what you differ with, but it's less taking liberty and more a habitual history of being informed. It's always possible that my information is a miss, though.
We're going out to dinner now, so maybe afterwards, if I feel inclined to
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