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#102 Jul 28 2011 at 12:54 PM Rating: Good
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What the crap is a public university?
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#103 Jul 28 2011 at 1:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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Nilatai wrote:
What the crap is a public university?

A university that receives funding from the state. Some of the conditions for funding may include quotas on students (ie, affirmation action) or specific standards for admittance. I believe, humorously, Varus attended a public university.

It's a silly talking point, as many public universities are just as well respected as private ones (for example, University of Delaware, where I graduated from, and University of Florida, where I work at). There are 30 "Public Ivies" comparable to the best of private universities.
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#104 Jul 28 2011 at 1:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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Oh right. Well university doesn't work the same way in the US as it does in the UK. Students here can either pay their whole tuition fee themselves, or they can be subsidised by the government with loans.

edit: That being said, I believe Universities departments can qualify for government grants to fund things like research.

Also, I find it a point of contention that varus even graduated high school, let alone University.

Edited, Jul 28th 2011 3:07pm by Nilatai
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#105 Jul 28 2011 at 1:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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There's mounting evidence he barely graduated from nap time.
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#106 Jul 28 2011 at 1:13 PM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
There's mounting evidence he barely graduated from nap time.


Nap time ain't no joke
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#107varusword75, Posted: Jul 28 2011 at 1:28 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Locked,
#108 Jul 28 2011 at 1:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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varusword75 wrote:
I did my grad work at UT which was a complete waste of time and money.

Well, no shit. You failed out of your job just months later.
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#109 Jul 28 2011 at 1:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
varusword75 wrote:
I did my grad work at UT which was a complete waste of time and money.

Well, no shit. You failed out of your job just months later.

Smiley: laugh
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#110 Jul 28 2011 at 3:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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So uh, why go to school to sell insurance policies?
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#111 Jul 28 2011 at 3:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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Timelordwho wrote:
So uh, why go to school to sell insurance policies?

He was a teacher for about five minutes, remember?
#112varusword75, Posted: Jul 28 2011 at 3:31 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Timmy,
#113 Jul 28 2011 at 3:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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#114varusword75, Posted: Jul 28 2011 at 3:33 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Joph,
#115 Jul 28 2011 at 3:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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My husband looked into being an insurance salesmen a while back. He was talking with someone at State Farm (they ended up going with someone with experience of course). But no where was college mentioned. Just have to take their classes, pass the test and that was it.
#116 Jul 28 2011 at 4:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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varusword75 wrote:
It's obvious you don't think there's a difference between failing at something and quitting because it really s*cked.

Sure there's a difference. You've done the first and desperately want us to believe it had something to do with the second.
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#117 Jul 28 2011 at 4:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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Gumbo Galahad wrote:
I had a 3.5 gpa when I told UT to go f*ck themselves.
It's a good thing you left while on top, or your second week of school would have been much more painful for your GPA.
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#118 Jul 28 2011 at 7:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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Samira should totally move to Chicago so she can hang with The Rahm.


A smart, funny, arrogant aSShole with no brakes? Dude, I'd be such a shameless groupie.

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#119 Jul 28 2011 at 8:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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Samira wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Samira should totally move to Chicago so she can hang with The Rahm.


A smart, funny, arrogant aSShole with no brakes? Dude, I'd be such a shameless groupie.



We are clearly cut from the same cloth.

Nexa
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#120 Jul 29 2011 at 1:08 AM Rating: Good
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Oh right. Well university doesn't work the same way in the US as it does in the UK. Students here can either pay their whole tuition fee themselves, or they can be subsidised by the government with loans.

edit: That being said, I believe Universities departments can qualify for government grants to fund things like research.


Uh, you clearly haven't got a clue what you're talking about. Every University, except Buckingham, receives direct government funding from the Higher Education Funding Council (HEFCE) in return for compliance with certain standards - e.g. fee caps.
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#121 Jul 29 2011 at 1:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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Here it mostly just comes down to whether or not they are recieving state funds (and there are more laws they need to comply with if they are public). Generally speaking, this means private schools tend to be smaller and much more expensive. Though, on the flip side, the richest private schools you are essentially guaranteed to be able to attend with minimal cost if you are accepted.

You'll essentially never need to decline an acceptance to Harvard or Yale because you can't pay for it. Their class sizes are sufficiently small, and their donations/revenue sufficiently large, that you won't be expected to pay a full bill unless your family is quite wealthy. Which, to be fair, many of them are. >.<

Quite literally, I'd have half the debt (if not even less) I do now if I was going to Harvard rather than Rutgers. On the other hand, Rutgers has the best philosophy department in the country, and one of the best (if not the top) cultural history department. Since those are my majors, it works out.
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#122 Jul 29 2011 at 5:11 AM Rating: Excellent
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Rutgers has the best philosophy department in the country, and one of the best (if not the top) cultural history department. Since those are my majors, it works out.

So you're pretty well guaranteed to be a useless adult as well then, yeah?

EDIT: Also -
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ha ha.

That is all.

Edited, Jul 29th 2011 7:31am by MoebiusLord
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#123 Jul 29 2011 at 6:22 AM Rating: Good
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Kavekk wrote:
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Oh right. Well university doesn't work the same way in the US as it does in the UK. Students here can either pay their whole tuition fee themselves, or they can be subsidised by the government with loans.

edit: That being said, I believe Universities departments can qualify for government grants to fund things like research.


Uh, you clearly haven't got a clue what you're talking about. Every University, except Buckingham, receives direct government funding from the Higher Education Funding Council (HEFCE) in return for compliance with certain standards - e.g. fee caps.

I stand corrected. Ta.
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#124varusword75, Posted: Jul 29 2011 at 8:26 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Moe,
#125varusword75, Posted: Jul 29 2011 at 8:29 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Jophed,
#126 Jul 29 2011 at 8:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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Gumbo Galahad wrote:
I can tell you've never taught in a large public school.
Those kindergarteners really challenged you intellectually, didn't they?
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#127varusword75, Posted: Jul 29 2011 at 9:04 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) lagaga,
#128 Jul 29 2011 at 9:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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Gumbo Galahad wrote:
Seniors and kindergarteners definitly have the same mentality if that's what you're saying.
It wasn't, but your confusion is understandable.
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#129 Jul 29 2011 at 9:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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varusword75 wrote:
I can tell you've never taught in a large public school.

Neither have you -- you failed out and ran away to your daddy crying and begging for a new job.
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#130 Jul 29 2011 at 9:42 AM Rating: Decent
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Hate to interrupt this little daisy chain here, but I'm curious about your opinions on something. The upper levels of our government are filled with businessmen and lawyers. To memory, a good half of US presidents have been lawyers. I can't be the only person to find it bothersome that the people ostensibly chosen to lead us come from careers in which some of the main components are rhetoric and manipulation. If you look at the equivalent leaders of China you'll find that they're mostly scientists.

It would seem to me that this is a substantial problem.
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#131 Jul 29 2011 at 9:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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zukunftsangst wrote:
Hate to interrupt this little daisy chain here, but I'm curious about your opinions on something. The upper levels of our government are filled with businessmen and lawyers. To memory, a good half of US presidents have been lawyers. I can't be the only person to find it bothersome that the people ostensibly chosen to lead us come from careers in which some of the main components are rhetoric and manipulation. If you look at the equivalent leaders of China you'll find that they're mostly scientists.

It would seem to me that this is a substantial problem.

On the other hand, the job of Congress is to create and enable laws based on the Constitution. For such a position, wouldn't a lawyer, a person who studies law for a living, but the most logical choice?

The job of a government (near as I remember from my educational years) was not originally to improve the economy but to allow for stability to let the people of the country thrive on their own. It wasn't until around the Great Depression that the government suddenly realized that the people of the country were getting screwed over and that they were in a position to help soften the blows.
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#132 Jul 29 2011 at 9:58 AM Rating: Default
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LockeColeMA wrote:
zukunftsangst wrote:
Hate to interrupt this little daisy chain here, but I'm curious about your opinions on something. The upper levels of our government are filled with businessmen and lawyers. To memory, a good half of US presidents have been lawyers. I can't be the only person to find it bothersome that the people ostensibly chosen to lead us come from careers in which some of the main components are rhetoric and manipulation. If you look at the equivalent leaders of China you'll find that they're mostly scientists.

It would seem to me that this is a substantial problem.

On the other hand, the job of Congress is to create and enable laws based on the Constitution. For such a position, wouldn't a lawyer, a person who studies law for a living, but the most logical choice?

The job of a government (near as I remember from my educational years) was not originally to improve the economy but to allow for stability to let the people of the country thrive on their own. It wasn't until around the Great Depression that the government suddenly realized that the people of the country were getting screwed over and that they were in a position to help soften the blows.


Seems to be increasingly anachronistic, especially the part about upholding the constitution (The semi-sacred status it enjoys among some is something I object to greatly).

The problem to my mind is that these lawyers are legislating things they're completely unfit to. If some of them can't even work a computer properly, how are they going to know what research is worth funding? There are various other examples like that in different fields. A feasible solution is beyond my abilities, but I would advocate massive reform which would have the result of substantial input from the scientific, medical, educational etc communities.
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#133 Jul 29 2011 at 10:00 AM Rating: Default
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BS....that's why presidents have cabinets.

And it's also why W was such a successful president and Obama's been such a failure. Look at who they surrounded themselves with.

It's been nearly 30yrs since the Dems had someone run for office that hadn't been to law school.

#134 Jul 29 2011 at 10:02 AM Rating: Good
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zukunftsangst wrote:

It would seem to me that this is a substantial problem.
Huh?

Inequality, discrimination?

Are scientists somehow being held back from seeking public office?

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#135 Jul 29 2011 at 10:02 AM Rating: Good
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zukunftsangst wrote:
The problem to my mind is that these lawyers are legislating things they're completely unfit to. If some of them can't even work a computer properly, how are they going to know what research is worth funding? There are various other examples like that in different fields. A feasible solution is beyond my abilities, but I would advocate massive reform which would have the result of substantial input from the scientific, medical, educational etc communities.


Silly Proof, that's what lobbyists are for! Smiley: tongue
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#136 Jul 29 2011 at 10:03 AM Rating: Good
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Look at who they surrounded themselves with.
He surrounded himself with people smarter than him. Like Barney and Mrs. Beasley.
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#137 Jul 29 2011 at 10:07 AM Rating: Default
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Elinda wrote:
zukunftsangst wrote:

It would seem to me that this is a substantial problem.
Huh?

Inequality, discrimination?

Are scientists somehow being held back from seeking public office?



Yeah, I guess you could say this. STEM is underfunded and ignored, and STEM is the key to success on the international level in this rapidly changing and globalized world (I read this on the internet and it had buzzwords so it's probably true).

Eske Esquire wrote:
zukunftsangst wrote:
The problem to my mind is that these lawyers are legislating things they're completely unfit to. If some of them can't even work a computer properly, how are they going to know what research is worth funding? There are various other examples like that in different fields. A feasible solution is beyond my abilities, but I would advocate massive reform which would have the result of substantial input from the scientific, medical, educational etc communities.


Silly Proof, that's what lobbyists are for! Smiley: tongue


Oh you,
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#138 Jul 29 2011 at 10:11 AM Rating: Excellent
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My congresscritter is a medical doctor. Still licensed and everything, although his practice uses another doctor as its main person now, allowing the congresscritter to just collect payment for owning the practice.

He's also ******* insane and not in a good way and I give his office the finger every time I pass it by. He's a "Good Old Boy" through and through.

I'd rather have a lawyer, honestly.
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#139 Jul 29 2011 at 10:21 AM Rating: Good
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I work with a bunch of scientists. Honestly, I don't think many of them would make very good governmental leaders. Fewer would want the job.



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#140 Jul 29 2011 at 10:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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zukunftsangst wrote:
If you look at the equivalent leaders of China you'll find that they're mostly scientists.

China allows you to send the military to someone's house and rough them up. The US system relies on more subtle, lawyerly, persuasion.

varusword75 wrote:
And it's also why W was such a successful president and Obama's been such a failure. Look at who they surrounded themselves with

Ashcroft, Rumsfeld, Gonzales & Brown? All true luminaries Smiley: laugh
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#141 Jul 29 2011 at 10:56 AM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
zukunftsangst wrote:
If you look at the equivalent leaders of China you'll find that they're mostly scientists.
The US system relies on more subtle, lawyerly, persuasion.


To a point, sure. However, I don't see how this is relevant. I imagine it's the product of Asiatic culture. I'm not suggesting that we install some sort of brutal authoritarian technocracy.
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#142 Jul 29 2011 at 10:57 AM Rating: Good
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At least it would cut down in red-tape.
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#143 Jul 29 2011 at 10:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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zukunftsangst wrote:
To a point, sure. However, I don't see how this is relevant.

You don't see how a system that relies on legalism would cause more lawyers to rise to prominence than a system that relies on authoritarian rule?
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#144 Jul 29 2011 at 11:12 AM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
zukunftsangst wrote:
To a point, sure. However, I don't see how this is relevant.

You don't see how a system that relies on legalism would cause more lawyers to rise to prominence than a system that relies on authoritarian rule?


I don't see how a tyrannical government would cause more scientists to rise to prominence. It's possible to maintain a system of legalism without lawyers filling the majority of positions. This might be a more important point if the USG was actually concerned with following the law, or the system of legalism wasn't essentially used the same way as military force in some instances.
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#145 Jul 29 2011 at 11:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'll admit I'm not familiar enough to know about the rise of Chinese scientists in political power or even if that claim is accurate. I'm speaking largely of the US system.
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#146 Jul 29 2011 at 11:26 AM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
I'll admit I'm not familiar enough to know about the rise of Chinese scientists in political power or even if that claim is accurate. I'm speaking largely of the US system.


Fair enough. I guess my overall point is that we're too set in habit and tradition. I don't see much harm in trying out drastically new things.

I was reading Homage To Catalonia the other day and the various political ideologies and how they were all considered reasonably impressed me. Some people say the the US is essentially run under a one party system, due to the very little difference between the two parties relative to the rest of the world. I can't really find much about that to dispute. It bothers me that alternative political ideologies are flatly dismissed as lunacy or the like by the majority of people. The status quo may have brought us to the status of being a world power, but that's quite distinct from benefit to the populace.

I guess this is kind of a tangent.
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#147 Jul 29 2011 at 6:21 PM Rating: Decent
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zukunftsangst wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
zukunftsangst wrote:
To a point, sure. However, I don't see how this is relevant.

You don't see how a system that relies on legalism would cause more lawyers to rise to prominence than a system that relies on authoritarian rule?


I don't see how a tyrannical government would cause more scientists to rise to prominence.


Never seen how scientists run their labs, have you? Think about it. There's this naive assumption that science is all about people with no egos at all allowing the truth to rule. In reality, egos abound, reputations are tied to theories and results, and adoption of your ideas, often by a completely authoritarian process, is how you get ahead.

Not saying that lawyers are better automatically, but I can absolutely see how a group of scientists running things would lead to a more authoritarian system. You'd have a whole lot of people basically saying "I'm right, so let's just make everyone do what I say!".
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#148 Jul 29 2011 at 6:23 PM Rating: Good
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If they could prove they were right, maybe people should do what they say?
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#149 Jul 29 2011 at 6:44 PM Rating: Decent
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Nilatai wrote:
If they could prove they were right, maybe people should do what they say?


Funny how often I've heard liberals on this board say more or less the same thing. And they wonder why I call their ideology authoritarian?
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#150 Jul 29 2011 at 6:53 PM Rating: Good
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What could you possibly stand to gain by being deliberately wrong?
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#151 Jul 29 2011 at 7:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Nilatai wrote:
What could you possibly stand to gain by being deliberately wrong?


Well, for starters, it need not be deliberate. On top of that, once you have a system in place in which those authorities just tell us what is "right" and we're all required to go along with them, how long do you think it would take before political gain would outstrip actual scientific fact? Let's say I want people to wear green instead of blue. I could get my scientific authorities to say that it's a fact that wearing green makes people healthier than blue and then mandate that all clothing be green. Simple, right?


It's kinda exactly that sort of system which liberalism seeks to avoid, for what should be obvious reasons.
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