For one, there is nothing about infinity to suppose that it creates the opposite. The finite might be a portion of the infinite, but the infinite doesn't create it.
You have stated that infinity has an opposite. I assume you would simply say that the opposite of infinity is NON-infinity. I would not expect you to think that finite can really be the opposite in this context as finite is being used to describe the created time/space existence and everything in it rather than as you describe later "a relation regarding how far you travel along each axis of the universe"
Anyway; this is why I also majored in Philosophy and also why I hated it and learned to hate all philosophy. I don't mean hate it on an intellectual level; on an intellectual level there is nothing I love more... but on a spiritual level philosophy is nothing more than a bunch of people digging holes to nowhere.. sometimes people share holes and keep on digging.. but they go nowhere.. ever..
It's fun to read about what people think and it's even fun to do it.. go figure.. But there always comes a point where you realize you will never fully know the full truth as you are and that you may be stuck as you are until you die; never knowing that thing that you were trying to figure out but couldn't even figure out what it was that you were trying to figure out. After this you either keep banging your head against the wall and pretending like it doesn't matter because we ARE just matter.. or take the leap of faith. (I'm sure you've studied the existentialists)
If God created the universe, and he is the infinite aspect to it, then the universe is god. It's just one small part of him, but it's god nonetheless. YOU don't exist--you are nothing more than a part of the world still.
I agree that God would be the infinite aspect but the time/space universe is a step(or 11?) removed from God because it has mass and it takes time for that mass to go through space as either matter or energy in whatever pattern that it DOES; it's still In space/time and hence still not infinite as a unit and as such it is separate from God but ONLY in the most elementary way.. as yes God's omnipotence etc has complete control over all of the mass and space in time... and as YOU say WE are subordinate to this and then you say that because of this it is all meaningless except to experience the beauty of existence and smile and just wait til the end and here we are and there we go..
My suggestion that that most of the universe IS as you say.. including our minds and bodies.. these things are Finite in their space/time form.. still with me? However, that which makes us different from animals, vegetables, and minerals is really just our ability to judge what is Positive and what is Negative..( positive and negative to what? ) Well who cares.. I'm sure you would not argue against one of the most elemental phenomena put into play; positive and negative.. and even if we tried to stretch and skew it over to the particle physics side or meta-physical psycho ranting I actually think that it all still applies.
I expect you also preach that we are the same as animals and unique in no way.
Because let me make this clear--I don't mourn the loss of God. I did once, after I had finally given up trying to believe in him. I don't any more. The universe is more than enough for me. Maybe I'm just not a greedy little bastard.
I'm sure you're not too interested in why I believe what I believe and simply just go with "He's a just **** who can't think for himself"
You say you mourned the loss of God once; I don't surely know what that means and obviously I'm not going to pretend that I can ever talk anyone into believing in God.. but I have found that most of the disbelief comes from a standard of preconceived notions coupled with various emotional blockages... People have an idea of how things should be.. of what a God should or should not do based on their own limited perspectives and take the great plunge of materialism.
I argued AGAINST Abrahamic religions actually all organized religion most of my life; and MUCH of it on this forum. I did however argue for the existence of a sentient range of entities that existed in all of the various dimensions of energies that existed and that our thoughts were intertwined with it..etc etc So I guess you would say I was already crazy anyway..
I would never have believed in a MANmade writing or give any credence at all to something that I didn't experience with my own consciousness.. But even now I still don't... No that is why I said that IF, that's an IF that which created us actually wanted to communicate it to us for a purpose then HOW would this happen? 1) Program it into us.. which would make us cease to be "us" or 2) Put it into something external that would be preserved all throughout known history.
I realized that if I could believe that a God created the heavens and earth then I could really believe that He could sustain a story through time.
I guess I'm digressing.. But told me a year and a half ago I would be praising Jesus.. I'd have laughed in your face..
For one thing, you're wrong to assume that there is a why to existence. Existence is not a property something develops--if something exists, it has properties, if it does not exist, it does not have properties.
I think I added "why" just to **** you off.. but the How is the more substantial. You see particles doing a certain thing and have no idea how it's actually happening.. BUT you slap a label on it and throw it in a textbook and science becomes something more akin to legalism.. Just look at the Fundamental Forces... all they are are descriptions nothing more... You may say "well what the @#%^ else are they supposed to be?"
but one thing they are not going to ever be are giving up the mystery of how they exist..
Gluons? really? LOL
Don't get me wrong; I do not doubt physics as much as it may seem..after all we did make atomic bomb.. a proud moment indeed; but science is by its very nature cannot answer the ultimate questions.. by its very nature science must always ask questions.. so the concept of God-Creator in a scientific viewpoint is never going to work. If God is the Sentient Prime Mover of Time/Space then God would be the ultimate answer.. but science is not a tool for ultimate answers is it? We can keep building it up higher and higher to see farther and farther away but we can never get there that way.
(please try to understand that--there is no infinite without dimensions).
I also understand that he kind of infinite you are talking about is an anomaly in a mathematical calculation and not referring to something with no beginning or no end.
there's nothing about infinity that renders the mind=body argument invalid or unlikely. Unless you mean because your presupposing the existence of the soul. And that's just a stupid thing to do.
Of course I'm getting at a soul.. sure I get that you can't accept it because it's one of those things you can't have proven to you.
Body is obvious, Mind is your conscious thoughts within standard time/space, Soul is everything else as close to the infinite as possible that is still You as an entity, beyond This Particular Space/Time.
the fact remains that God doesn't care about how much you suffer, as long as he gets to complete his science project.
-The Suffering is the nature of who we are
-To prevent us from suffering would remove who we are an negate the purpose
-If this weren't happening then we wouldn't exist.. so if you don't want to exist.. well, sorry
-IN THE CONTEXT of people being created with the plan in mind of those people dwelling amidst a perfected universe
People are being given the way to this AS Themselves (separate from God) and yet separate from their old time/space-as-we-know-it(fleshly) nature which is wholly evil. Evil doesn't mean you rape puppies.. evil means turned away from the Light of Creation that desires you to turn to it of you own volition.
The things that are happening on this world are the result of our existence; it is the nature of our existence.
We dwell in entropy.
But you said you think you had God and then lost it and then tried to find beauty. My suggestion would have been to look at all of the beauty of the universe and find God there and don't get upset because you can't visualize an abstract.
The thing is, I don't like you. You're evangelical and illogical, trying to shove your religion down our throats and acting like those that disagree with you do so because they're stupid. That's what I take issue with. You don't even understand the arguments you are trying to draw on.
I'm actually kind of shocked you're even responding to me at this point; but I am not professing any "religion". I hate religions, and if I were trying to shove what I am trying to discuss down anyones throats I would be spamming it and lamely trying to quote scriptures to people who don't believe them.. I know this subject has been thrown here time and time again; but now that I feel that I know what I know I would be a fool to not present it here. Here is a place where I know people like you will speak their mind to the utmost degree and here we are. For years I have respected the viewpoints and debate dynamics here; so if you're whining because my making someone look stupid is troubling to you then you must be new here.
And I WROTE the fu
ckin' arguments you are presenting ;P Edited, May 14th 2011 8:44pm by Kelvyquayo