JESUS CHRIST!! what a wall o'text!!Follow

It's all on how you see it. If you are in Love with someone do you not do the same thing? Then do you call it prostrating and grovelling? It is signs of affection and appreciation..

Those who have really known Love will know what I mean

Compulsory love is no love at all. Let alone simultaneously loving someone who you must also fear.

This is all wash, I have known love before and I know it now. This does not mean I grovel at the feet of the one I love. Love entails mutual respect for one another, grovelling demeans this completely and debases the one on his or her knees (hold the jokes about that).

Haha, if you say so, sure.

Um, "perfected universe"? Seriously?


Does your god do this to you in return?

Lol, I notice he hasn't responded to me at all. :P



So he knows what you'll do, and he puts you in a situation to do it. And you call that a free choice?

Sad world. I'd prefer no free choice to a crappy kind of freedom like that. You aren't living your life the way you want to, your living the life god picked for you, acting EXACTLY as he wanted to.

You see the problem? All those atheists that are going to hell? God CHOSE the situation to put them in, and that situation is the one who rejects him. According to your argument, people who are evil, or violent, etc, are only such because it's the path God chose for them. They could have been world leaders had he chosen differently.

So that woman who tries for 12 years to get pregnant, finally does, and then has a miscarriage that utterly destroys her faith? These were all the choices god made for her.

That kind of god is an *******.

Right now the physical universe that we live in is not the same as the "universe" that the Source is in.

We as free beings therefore are finite compared to the Source.

The Source has given us finite beings a way to be in the "Perfected" universe that the source (God) will provide. We cannot exist there unless our fleshly ways of beings (sins) are forgiven by God through the mere fact that we chose to believe that Jesus is real and resurrected.. et cetera.



Yes; once you establish a personal relationship with the creator of the universe it becomes quite elating..

This earth is only bit of Hell that saved people will ever experience and the only bit of heaven that damned people will experience.

Like it or not it is the way it is. All of your arguments against that Truth are fruitless.
The life in the flesh is finite and fleeting.. the life in the spirit is ETERNAL. God has provided all with a way Out.
If you disagree with it it is your own skewed way of looking at it.. from fleshcolourd glasess.. To try Jesus the Anointed is the only chance to NOT be Judged for our Flesh Choices.

YOu ask WHY we have a Choice in the first place?? Well the alternative is to have no free will and as such we are just like trees and rocks.

YOU were the one who said that's how he operated.



I reject the idea because it's ridiculous. The only way to rectify the existence of god with the world is to discard logic completely. And that's ludicrous.

We live in a world where there is massive amounts of suffering every day. Children starve to death, pedestrians get hit by cars, natural disasters kill 20,000 people in hours, etc. And this is REGULAR. Evil isn't a once in a while kind of thing, it happens everywhere, all the time. Even if you want to pretend like free will of a few men is better than the suffering of millions of innocent people, you can't account for natural evil.

If a God existed, he'd either be powerless to stop this evil, unaware of what the hell was going on, or not give a ****.

Even if you want to drone on about God creating a brighter tomorrow, the fact is that he still doesn't care about you today. It doesn't matter how much you suffer if it means some greater good will occur in the future. Your a means to an end and you don't matter--you would be nothing more than a part in god's toy universe.

Furthermore, the idea of free will alone is ridiculous (and so you can't explain away moral evil, like genocides). The universe is a place of matter and energy, and everything functions according to physical laws. Humans are no different. When we take action, it's because our brain ordered our bodies to through physical processes. The brain itself is a physical entity, designed by millions of years of evolution. "Acting" is just the organic step in a long chain of physical reactions dictated by physical laws. I am writing this post right now because of the specific organization of particles that formed following the Big Bang, which were directed by physical laws to create the world and, eventually, me.

Humans act in every situation according to their beliefs. Beliefs are largely not "chosen" in any sense. Your parents raise you a specific way, in a specific society. Various events happen as you age. Etc. All of these external factors make you who you are. You believe in God because physical processes led you to believe in him, and you have turned to evangelism because of that belief. You didn't do it freely--you did it because the universe is the way it is.

All of our actions are nothing more than reactions to stimuli. That's it. There is no meaning to life, there is no God waiting to welcome you home after you die (and, if there is, he's either a prick, a wimp, or an idiot). And there is no free will.

Hey, If it's worth anything to ya I still believe in faeries and dragons! and no I DON'T think they are all evil.

I finally moved from there; but it do work downtown a LOT now!

Okay good, so if god is fair then if I live a good life I'll be rewarded. If I stay true to my convictions and despite not believing in him, do my best to minimise the suffering of others and help people to live better lives, I'll be fine. Because, y'know, punishing a good person for simply not believing wouldn't be just now, would it?



What?

I used to believe in god. I used to be a rather devout Catholic, actually. I'm sure with you being a Protestant of some description you'll say I was evil and sinful because I was a Catholic, and I'll probably agree with you. Many of the Catholic dogmas are quite evil when you look at them. However, I found other avenues to be more, rewarding, shall we say. Now this isn't to say I'm not open to the possibility of some kind of higher power, I just find it to be incredibly unlikely that it is Yahweh.

Oh and believing that the whole Universe was created with you in mind isn't being humble. Just saying.

I never knew Kelvy was Charlie Sheen. Makes sense now.

winning

Going on memory here, but I'm pretty sure yes, they're pretty much said to be forsaken. The world before Jesus' sacrifice was a world in which all men were unforgiven for their sin. Maybe there was some tiny caveat, but I don't think so. Essentially, the entire period in between Eve eating the forbidden fruit and Jesus' sacrifice is one big field day for Hell's population.

Then again, going by both historical record and probably by biblical record as well, there weren't really that many people on Earth in those times. Not an insignificant amount, mind you, but nothing evem compared to the population of the 1950's (~2B, I think).

Sucks to be Moses then I guess. Oh and, y'know, Noah. I guess the only one that got off scott free was Enoch, not having actually died and all.