JESUS CHRIST!! what a wall o'text!!Follow

While I really don't want to get into this Troll-turned-whatever thread, I would like to put my two cents in on one particular point(mostly since a lot of people I knew in high school used it as a reason that there could be no other intelligent life in the universe):
That's only difficult to reconcile if you take the "in His image" to mean literally "our bodies look like He does". I've always looked at it as our souls being crafted as a reflection(not sure that's the word I want to use) of His being. Which means to me that there could be millions of intelligent species in the galaxy who look nothing alike, but all their souls shine with His glory as well.

At least, that's what I believe.

I'm borrowing terms as best I can, but I'm an agnostic atheist, a causal determinist, and a utilitarian humanist. Those are the more concise approximations of my perspectives on religion, metaphysics, and philosophy. As for creation itself, I expect that the universe has always existed, time and space are essentially infinite, and that what we commonly refer to as the Big Bang describes an incident that explains the orientation of only a small section of the actual universe. e.g., two of a trillion universes gravitate and collide, and the result is a big bang.

Don't worry about it too much. You can't come across any worse than the fundamentalists I mentioned going to high school with. They called me a Devil Worshipper for suggesting that the Bible wasn't 100% literal.


I like to think of it this way: First if we assume that everything in the Bible is 100% the word of God(ignoring the probability that humans have made edits to it since He gave us the original), then I like to think that humanity when we were given His word was like a child asking about where babies come from - intelligent, but without enough experience or frame of reference to make sense of everything he wished to tell us. And just like a parent might, He told us what we generally needed to know, some parts as allegory, others as a simplification of what was actually going on. And just like the child, we're learning and applying our increased knowledge in a way that allows us to fathom more of what he told us.

Generally though, I'm a believer that the Bible has in fact seen edits where humans felt the need. As such, I try to avoid focusing on its specifics and take from it only the most general message, which I like to hope has been left more or less intact.

Those, to me, are simply the ones who have not grown enough to see the world we have been given, so they must rely on the simplified and allegorical form. One day they'll grow and learn to accept the amazing wonder of this universe in which we live. Until then, we can only wait for them and gently try to help them along so that they'll one day see the glory right before them.

Some will. The Vatican has already suggested that intelligent life out in the universe is not in contradiction with the faith.

Others will say that the aliens are demons sent by Satan to fool us and steal our souls. It'll run the whole gamut. Personally, I think that just because I believe that we could necessarily trust that they have our best interests at heart. I mean, I believe other humans have souls and I really don't trust most of them either.


I'm not entirely certain what you mean by that.

Ah, okay. I see what ya mean.

We're all Gods in our own special ways.

They also left out some of the books from the bible. Thomas and Judas both wrote books that they left out.

It's vain. It only thinks it's cute. At least that's what I gathered from skimming the thread.

This is true of Augustine. We cannot "earn" anything in order to make God owe us anything. God created us. God will never OWE us anything. This is a big hang up for many people.. as they feel that God could ever be unfair when they cannot realize that there may be aspects of reality that they are unaware of and that they may be wrong about a great many things.
We do not earn God's grace. It we earned it it wouldn't be "grace" it would just be a payment for work. That doesn't work. Just ask the Hebrews.

They build a plexiglass platform out over the abyss knowing full well they'll not see everything, but that maybe they'll see a bit more.

Good to see you, Omega.

The crux of Hawkins' work is trying to prove that there was no Big Bang and hence no beginning of everything. The problem with the Big Bang was that all of the "intellectuals" of the scientific community were forced to deal the the impossible illogical notion that Something came from Nothing and it left too much room for God theories.. this of course is a threat to the mind of any person claiming to have any scholarly scruples in those time, was it not? It still is. They started desperately digging for a way to have a complete unified theory which did not require a beginning.. Hawkins' is all about that *****.

and indeed God cannot be proved like you say. Being that the reason for our being here is to come to know God, it is a unique and profound journey for everyone.
YOu are talking about laws and physics; but it seems that a definition of a sentient creator of everything I admit is beyond my understanding of what He is capable of or if it could be governed by that which it created.



I totally agree that Christians can be as flawed as everyone else. This is what the Bible is essentially full of.. How flawed people actually are. I once thought that no one needed to be really saved.. Then I realized that God did very clearly set a standard that no one can meet without asking God for help.



Yes: any for of religion, I think, is the result of people having trouble developing a personal relationship with God.. But I cannot say that Jesus was like any other Human because he was the Specific Symbol of God's Reaching Out to Human-kind in order to let them be saved from the fate of the flesh. A person that is ordained by God for this purpose is indeed not like any other man. It was part of God's plan from the beginning.



I don't know. I kind of think that God has done a great many things and created a great many things that we are unaware of for purposes far above our understanding.
My own notion is that God will use aliens to wipe us out in the end times just like he used the Babylonians to wipe out the Kingdom of Judah.. but that's my opinion.

more like; they build a rickety decrepit half rotting bridge to try to get across and can never ever make it..
OR if they ask That which put them there for wings they just fly across.

This is ridiculous. If, by definition "God" is omnipotent and omniscient and is the source of all time/space and in fact every thing that Is.. then God could not possible be outside of the scope of the universe.


How do you account for the notion that concepts such as logic and paradox as a so-called "higher law" is still merely labeled that from a lesser force then that law that it is trying to define and thus flawed to its core. Greek logic works for little mind games.. but will naturally fail when wielded by that which is lesser than it to try to account for notions wholly above it's scope.



How does this work if there are only 2 logical choices? In order for there to BE a choice there must the an antithesis of elements.. people call them "good and evil". I also call them toward God or Away from God.
All of your talk of denying it's existence because it doesn't live up to a lesser and impossibly flawed standard of morality is pure folly.

You know if you are so stuck on Greek philosophy why are you ignoring the concept of Logos; the notion that things LOGICALLY exist that cannot ever be understood through Logic?

Thanks!

Why would you think saved means lack of sentience? We are who we are; but we all have hang ups for many different reasons that cause us to do and think many different things.. but we still will always be whom we be :)

Besides God.. I'm engaged.. got a great chill job that pays well.. recently got my car totaled 2 weeks ago but am getting my new one tomorrow! WOOOO
No kids yet.. a few more guns.. playing LOTRO..got the woman to play it too (ELENDILMIR)

Blessed!