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#1 May 10 2011 at 9:34 AM Rating: Good
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Seems the suicide rate of Chinese workers making i-goods is cutting into productivity. Workers are now being asked to sign waivers/pledges stating they wont' kill themselves.

More pressing, I'd imagine, is the caveat about compensation for the family:
Quote:
And they were made to promise that if they did, their families would only seek the legal minimum in damages.

Atm, I don't own any Apple products that I'm aware of (shew! dodged that bullet), but I'm wondering if I did own, say, an ipad would I or should I feel guilty?

STORY







Edited, May 10th 2011 6:07pm by Elinda
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#2 May 10 2011 at 9:38 AM Rating: Decent
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Look on the bright side: this could be a boon to American electronics production.
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#3 May 10 2011 at 9:40 AM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
Atm, I don't own any Apple products that I'm aware of (shew! dodged that bullet), but I'm wondering if I did own, say an, ipad would I or should I feel guilty?
Maybe you should, but I doubt you would. I know I don't.
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#4 May 10 2011 at 9:41 AM Rating: Decent
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Do you feel guilty when you get your teeth cleaned?

Also, life insurance generally doesn't pay out to the families of suicide.

Edited, May 10th 2011 11:42am by lolgaxe
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#5 May 10 2011 at 9:46 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Do you feel guilty when you get your teeth cleaned?

Also, life insurance generally doesn't pay out to the families of suicide.

Edited, May 10th 2011 11:42am by lolgaxe
You're assuming Chinese insurance/laws works the same as here.

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#6 May 10 2011 at 9:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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See, if only we brought those manufacturing jobs back to America and gave the workers a decent wage and benefits, we could be complaining about the outrageous prices of Apple products instead of trying to convince ourselves that we should give a flying fuck about the fragile mental health of Chinese laborers.
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#7 May 10 2011 at 10:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
Seems the suicide rate of Chinese workers making i-goods is cutting into productivity.

So we're getting good quality merchandise at a decent price and helping China control its ridiculous population growth?

Win-Win!
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#8 May 10 2011 at 10:06 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Do you feel guilty when you get your teeth cleaned?
Am I increasing someone's risk of suicide when I have my teeth cleaned?

Actually gaming is probably a better example of indirect influence on the mental health of slave labor on the other side of the world. Gold farming as got to be some seriously mind-numbing work.



Edited, May 10th 2011 6:09pm by Elinda
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#9 May 10 2011 at 10:08 AM Rating: Good
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MoebiusLord wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Seems the suicide rate of Chinese workers making i-goods is cutting into productivity.

So we're getting good quality merchandise at a decent price and helping China control its ridiculous population growth?

Win-Win!
Yes, thanks. My daughter is getting an ipad2 for her Birthday.

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#10 May 10 2011 at 10:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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we could be complaining about the outrageous prices of Apple products

lulz

I suppose maybe their outrageous price would at least be because of labor costs and not just paying for a logo.
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#11 May 10 2011 at 10:22 AM Rating: Good
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MoebiusLord wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Seems the suicide rate of Chinese workers making i-goods is cutting into productivity.

So we're getting good quality merchandise at a decent price and helping China control its ridiculous population growth?

Win-Win!


Who cares about China's population. Apple should move their manufacturing back here. We need more suicides.
#12 May 10 2011 at 10:27 AM Rating: Decent
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Elinda wrote:
Seems the suicide rate of Chinese workers making i-goods is cutting into productivity. Workers are now being asked to sign waivers/pledges stating they wont' kill themselves.

More pressing, I'd imagine, is the caveat about compensation for the family:
Quote:
And they were made to promise that if they did, their families would only seek the legal minimum in damages.

Atm, I don't own any Apple products that I'm aware of (shew! dodged that bullet), but I'm wondering if I did own, say, an ipad would I or should I feel guilty?

STORY







Edited, May 10th 2011 6:07pm by Elinda


Sorry to be "that guy" but this story is about a year old. Is there some new development that I'm missing?
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#13 May 10 2011 at 10:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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MoebiusLord wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Seems the suicide rate of Chinese workers making i-goods is cutting into productivity.

So we're getting good quality merchandise at a decent price and helping China control its ridiculous population growth?

Win-Win!


That was the first thing I thought of too.
#14 May 10 2011 at 10:56 AM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Do you feel guilty when you get your teeth cleaned?
Am I increasing someone's risk of suicide when I have my teeth cleaned?
Possibly, dentists have a high rate of suicides.
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#15 May 10 2011 at 10:58 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Possibly, dentists have a high rate of suicides.


Intentional, or accidental?

Because if the Little Shop of Horrors has taught me anything...
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#16 May 10 2011 at 11:02 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Elinda wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Do you feel guilty when you get your teeth cleaned?
Am I increasing someone's risk of suicide when I have my teeth cleaned?
Possibly, dentists have a high rate of suicides.
The dentist doesn't clean my teeth.
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#17 May 10 2011 at 11:02 AM Rating: Good
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idiggory wrote:
Quote:
Possibly, dentists have a high rate of suicides.


Intentional, or accidental?


Is there such a thing as "accidental suicide?"
#18 May 10 2011 at 11:20 AM Rating: Good
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Belkira wrote:
idiggory wrote:
Quote:
Possibly, dentists have a high rate of suicides.


Intentional, or accidental?


Is there such a thing as "accidental suicide?"


I think was the joke.

And I'm surprised at how callous people are. I also don't own any Apple products but this is pretty bad. $6 billion for first quarter profits and they can't pay the people assembling it a living wage. "Oh, these people are only committing suicide so their families can get a settlement." Yeah. How about you pay them enough to LIVE? Of course, whenever I'm feeling guilty about money, I dream about how a wrongful death lawsuit can bring in the big bucks.

Edited, May 10th 2011 12:20pm by Guenny
#19 May 10 2011 at 11:23 AM Rating: Good
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Guenny wrote:
Belkira wrote:
idiggory wrote:
Quote:
Possibly, dentists have a high rate of suicides.


Intentional, or accidental?


Is there such a thing as "accidental suicide?"


I think was the joke.


The Little Shoppe of Horrors comment made me think otherwise. If that was the joke, then idiggory should be ashamed of himself, and I cannot be held responsible for not understanding such a horrid, horrid "joke."
#20 May 10 2011 at 11:26 AM Rating: Good
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When are puns not horrible jokes?
#21 May 10 2011 at 11:28 AM Rating: Good
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Guenny wrote:
When are puns not horrible jokes?


When they're funny?

Oh, wait...
#22 May 10 2011 at 11:29 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
And I'm surprised at how callous people are.
How is that even possible?
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#23 May 10 2011 at 11:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'd guess that dentists have a little more time and flexibility to contemplate their career choices and decide what they're getting into than the dude who puts little glass screens into little casings off a conveyor belt for fourteen hours a day.
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#24 May 10 2011 at 11:34 AM Rating: Good
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Belkira wrote:
idiggory wrote:
Quote:
Possibly, dentists have a high rate of suicides.


Intentional, or accidental?


Is there such a thing as "accidental suicide?"


Yes. There are actually quite a few cases where dentists have tried to use the nitrous to alter their consciousness and died because they didn't mix it correctly and had no one supervising.
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#25 May 10 2011 at 11:35 AM Rating: Good
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
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And I'm surprised at how callous people are.
How is that even possible?


Hey, hyperbole happens.
#26 May 10 2011 at 11:36 AM Rating: Good
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Timelordwho wrote:
Belkira wrote:
idiggory wrote:
Quote:
Possibly, dentists have a high rate of suicides.


Intentional, or accidental?


Is there such a thing as "accidental suicide?"


Yes. There are actually quite a few cases where dentists have tried to use the nitrous to alter their consciousness and died because they didn't mix it correctly and had no one supervising.


Wouldn't that just be an accident, though? Or an overdose?
#27 May 10 2011 at 11:44 AM Rating: Good
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Guenny wrote:
Belkira wrote:
idiggory wrote:
Quote:
Possibly, dentists have a high rate of suicides.


Intentional, or accidental?


Is there such a thing as "accidental suicide?"


I think was the joke.

And I'm surprised at how callous people are. I also don't own any Apple products but this is pretty bad. $6 billion for first quarter profits and they can't pay the people assembling it a living wage. "Oh, these people are only committing suicide so their families can get a settlement." Yeah. How about you pay them enough to LIVE? Of course, whenever I'm feeling guilty about money, I dream about how a wrongful death lawsuit can bring in the big bucks.

Edited, May 10th 2011 12:20pm by Guenny
There are similar news stories about workers building Samsung products. Some broken-spirited oriental probably put a part into my Nooky (which, btw, i love more and more everyday). Apple claims to at least attempt to set some standards for it's suppliers. Who knows how sincere the efforts are. Here is their annual report on supplier responsibility.

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#28 May 10 2011 at 11:44 AM Rating: Good
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I didn't even notice the pun. >.< The LSoH comment was because, in the play, a dentist ODs (or something) on nitrous oxide and then gets fed to the plant.
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#29 May 10 2011 at 11:46 AM Rating: Good
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Belkira wrote:
Timelordwho wrote:
Belkira wrote:
idiggory wrote:
Quote:
Possibly, dentists have a high rate of suicides.


Intentional, or accidental?


Is there such a thing as "accidental suicide?"


Yes. There are actually quite a few cases where dentists have tried to use the nitrous to alter their consciousness and died because they didn't mix it correctly and had no one supervising.


Wouldn't that just be an accident, though? Or an overdose?


Well, since they accidentally killed themselves, it is both an accident and a suicide, and they weren't intentionally trying to commit suicide but were intentional in the act itself, so "accidental suicide".
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#30 May 10 2011 at 11:48 AM Rating: Good
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Timelordwho wrote:

Yes. There are actually quite a few cases where dentists have tried to use the nitrous to alter their consciousness and died because they didn't mix it correctly and had no one supervising.

How many are quite a few?
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#31 May 10 2011 at 11:49 AM Rating: Good
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Timelordwho wrote:
Belkira wrote:
Timelordwho wrote:
Belkira wrote:
idiggory wrote:
Quote:
Possibly, dentists have a high rate of suicides.


Intentional, or accidental?


Is there such a thing as "accidental suicide?"


Yes. There are actually quite a few cases where dentists have tried to use the nitrous to alter their consciousness and died because they didn't mix it correctly and had no one supervising.


Wouldn't that just be an accident, though? Or an overdose?


Well, since they accidentally killed themselves, it is both an accident and a suicide, and they weren't intentionally trying to commit suicide but were intentional in the act itself, so "accidental suicide".
No that's an overdose.
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#32 May 10 2011 at 11:53 AM Rating: Good
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I think the bigger problem is people accidentally killing themselves while on nitrous, rather than those that OD on them. I mean, a dentist would be using it in an environment with sharp instruments around, which would be hilarious to play with under the effect of laughing gas.

Especially if they remember that laughing gas disables their gag reflex when they see the pointy objects.
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#33 May 10 2011 at 11:54 AM Rating: Decent
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Guenny wrote:
$6 billion for first quarter profits and they can't pay the people assembling it a living wage.

Now I'm supposed to care about the standard of living in China as well?

Sorry, sister. That dog won't hunt.
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#34 May 10 2011 at 11:59 AM Rating: Good
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Maybe if you'd quit teasing him.
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#35 May 10 2011 at 12:03 PM Rating: Good
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idiggory wrote:
I think the bigger problem is people accidentally killing themselves while on nitrous, rather than those that OD on them. I mean, a dentist would be using it in an environment with sharp instruments around, which would be hilarious to play with under the effect of laughing gas.

Especially if they remember that laughing gas disables their gag reflex when they see the pointy objects.
There needs to be an awareness campaign. We can't just stand around while our dentists accidently suicide themselve with implements of toothy destruction.

I propose the start-up of the organization Forums Against Gaseous Sedation.
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#36 May 10 2011 at 12:04 PM Rating: Good
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Timelordwho wrote:
Well, since they accidentally killed themselves, it is both an accident and a suicide, and they weren't intentionally trying to commit suicide but were intentional in the act itself, so "accidental suicide".


But suicide is the intentional taking of ones life. How can one accidentally intentionally kill themselves?
#37 May 10 2011 at 12:06 PM Rating: Good
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idiggory wrote:
I didn't even notice the pun. >.< The LSoH comment was because, in the play, a dentist ODs (or something) on nitrous oxide and then gets fed to the plant.
Steve Martin was the bad-ass biker dentist. :D
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#38 May 10 2011 at 12:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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Belkira wrote:
How can one accidentally intentionally kill themselves?
Not sure, but I bet Rebecca Black would be involved.
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#39 May 10 2011 at 12:11 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
But suicide is the intentional taking of ones life. How can one accidentally intentionally kill themselves?


But you can consider accidental suicide to be something fundamentally different from suicide.

That is to say, the person intentionally took a course of action, and that action ended their life, but the ends were not the motivation (either because they were unknown, unlikely or somehow irrelevant).

I largely agree with you--suicide is intentional self-murder. Suicide modified by the adjective "accidental" is an oxymoron.

But I have no problem accepting "accidental suicide" to be a separate term with its own definition that is merely reminiscent of the root words (which really isn't that uncommon in English... at all).
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#40 May 10 2011 at 12:14 PM Rating: Good
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idiggory wrote:
Quote:
But suicide is the intentional taking of ones life. How can one accidentally intentionally kill themselves?


But you can consider accidental suicide to be something fundamentally different from suicide.

That is to say, the person intentionally took a course of action, and that action ended their life, but the ends were not the motivation (either because they were unknown, unlikely or somehow irrelevant).

I largely agree with you--suicide is intentional self-murder. Suicide modified by the adjective "accidental" is an oxymoron.

But I have no problem accepting "accidental suicide" to be a separate term with its own definition that is merely reminiscent of the root words (which really isn't that uncommon in English... at all).


I suppose. It seems pretty silly to me, but whatever. So long as you know it's an oxymoron and makes no sense.

It seemed that Timelord was actually trying to argue that accidental suicide can, indeed, happen. I disagree.
#41 May 10 2011 at 12:16 PM Rating: Good
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idiggory wrote:
Quote:
But suicide is the intentional taking of ones life. How can one accidentally intentionally kill themselves?


But you can consider accidental suicide to be something fundamentally different from suicide.

That is to say, the person intentionally took a course of action, and that action ended their life, but the ends were not the motivation (either because they were unknown, unlikely or somehow irrelevant).

So you want to just replace accidental death with accidental suicide?
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#42 May 10 2011 at 12:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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Don't fall for it Belkira. They're trolling you right now. There's no such thing as an accidental suicide. Its an accidental death. They're just trying to place more people in purgatory.

Edited, May 10th 2011 3:19pm by Uglysasquatch
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#43 May 10 2011 at 12:23 PM Rating: Good
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So you want to just replace accidental death with accidental suicide?


Lol, fine. Except that accidental suicide would be a death you still caused, even if unintentionally. An accidental death isn't so specific (but is the proper term).

But accidental suicide still works as a term if you wish to be more specific. It's not perfect, since it actually refers to accidental self-murder (which does not require intention).

[EDIT]

This just made me wonder... can a Buddhist commit suicide? I mean, if you don't believe that the physical world even exists, you don't believe in death. So you can't intentionally kill yourself...

Edited, May 10th 2011 2:24pm by idiggory
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#44 May 10 2011 at 12:26 PM Rating: Good
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Belkira wrote:
idiggory wrote:
Quote:
Possibly, dentists have a high rate of suicides.


Intentional, or accidental?


Is there such a thing as "accidental suicide?"


Autoerotic asphyxiation?
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#45 May 10 2011 at 12:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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idiggory wrote:
Lol, fine. Except that accidental suicide would be a death you still caused, even if unintentionally. An accidental death isn't so specific (but is the proper term).

But accidental suicide still works as a term if you wish to be more specific. It's not perfect, since it actually refers to accidental self-murder (which does not require intention).
You've been reading far too much gbaji if you actually believe this.
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#46 May 10 2011 at 12:37 PM Rating: Good
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idiggory wrote:
But accidental suicide still works as a term if you wish to be more specific. It's not perfect, since it actually refers to accidental self-murder (which does not require intention).


Or, you could just say they had an accident...
#47 May 10 2011 at 12:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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No we won't.
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#49 May 10 2011 at 12:56 PM Rating: Decent
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I never claimed it's something that should be an official definition, nor did I try to redefine suicide to suit my needs. So it's not really a gbaji like inference. I'm just saying that accidental suicide, while technically illogical, is only such because suicide demands intention.

If you ignore that part of the definition (which I'm making clear that I'm doing), you have no problem.

Gbaji would just argue that everyone else was wrong, even after a definition was linked...
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#51 May 10 2011 at 1:05 PM Rating: Good
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idiggory wrote:
I never claimed it's something that should be an official definition, nor did I try to redefine suicide to suit my needs. So it's not really a gbaji like inference. I'm just saying that accidental suicide, while technically illogical, is only such because suicide demands intention.

If you ignore that part of the definition (which I'm making clear that I'm doing), you have no problem.

Gbaji would just argue that everyone else was wrong, even after a definition was linked...
Right. And it's perfectly logical to call a red grape a red cherry because if you ignore the grape part it's just another little round red fruit.
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