Forum Settings
       
« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Reply To Thread

This is what happens........Follow

#1 May 07 2011 at 8:24 PM Rating: Sub-Default
**
739 posts
This what happens when you let liberalism take over completely.


Detroit
#2 May 07 2011 at 8:30 PM Rating: Excellent
Muggle@#%^er
******
20,020 posts
That's the problem with liberalism all right. Clearly, pulling funding from under-performing schools is the way to go. That's sure to give the kids the opportunities they need to learn.
____________________________
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people

lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
#3ThiefX, Posted: May 07 2011 at 8:33 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Ah yes the classic idiotic liberal response.
#4 May 07 2011 at 8:36 PM Rating: Excellent
******
49,744 posts
Education rankings.

Much like the thread, no particular reason or correlation.
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#5 May 07 2011 at 8:39 PM Rating: Excellent
****
9,346 posts
Quote:
What we need to do is throw more of other people's money at the problem. That will fix it.


Well, with no funding, how exactly would you fix it?

It's hardly a problem caused by any one political party, because really, both sides seem to have a bad track record with education.
____________________________
10k before the site's inevitable death or bust

The World Is Not A Cold Dead Place.
Alan Watts wrote:
I am omnipotent insofar as I am the Universe, but I am not an omnipotent in the role of Alan Watts, only cunning


Eske wrote:
I've always read Driftwood as the straight man in varus' double act. It helps if you read all of his posts in the voice of Droopy Dog.
#6 May 07 2011 at 8:43 PM Rating: Excellent
Sage
****
5,550 posts
lolgaxe wrote:
Education rankings.

Much like the thread, no particular reason or correlation.


BUT THE SMARTER STATES ARE IN BLUE.
____________________________
Mindel wrote:
Don't listen to bisexuals.
Aripyanfar wrote:
All bi's are ****-tarts.
#7 May 07 2011 at 8:43 PM Rating: Excellent
Muggle@#%^er
******
20,020 posts
Quote:
Well, with no funding, how exactly would you fix it?


I would really like to hear a response to this question.

Education's pretty much always been something I'm 100% willing to invest in. And it's not because I'm a liberal--it's because it just seems to be something so obviously good for the nation regardless of what your political leanings are. I don't even need to consider the rights of an individual to believe that we should be funding schools.

[edit]
Quote:
BUT THE SMARTER STATES ARE IN BLUE.


Real lol.

Edited, May 7th 2011 10:44pm by idiggory
____________________________
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people

lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
#8ThiefX, Posted: May 07 2011 at 8:57 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) A whole lot of money.
#9 May 07 2011 at 9:13 PM Rating: Good
Muggle@#%^er
******
20,020 posts
Spending a lot of money on something isn't an issue if it's worth the cost.
____________________________
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people

lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
#10 May 07 2011 at 10:35 PM Rating: Excellent
Needs More Smut
******
21,262 posts
Some of the comments are pretty insightful - for example, Detroit has a high Somali immigrant population these days. How many of the functionally illiterate in Detroit are ESL speakers? How many actually were able to attend high school? Remember, all the smart people left Detroit after the fall of Motor City - the only ones left behind were the ones who were, unfortunately, too poor or too uneducated to find opportunities elsewhere. Of course there is going to be a high concentration of illiterate people under those conditions.

'Throwing more money at them' won't solve anything - however, providing adequate funding to attract talented teachers who actually care about their students might actually do something.
____________________________
FFXI: Catwho on Bismarck: Retired December 2014
Thayos wrote:
I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

FFXIV: Katarh Mest and Taprara Rara on Lamia Server - Member of The Swarm
Curator of the XIV Wallpapers Tumblr and the XIV Fashion Tumblr
#11 May 07 2011 at 10:48 PM Rating: Good
Muggle@#%^er
******
20,020 posts
Quote:
'Throwing more money at them' won't solve anything - however, providing adequate funding to attract talented teachers who actually care about their students might actually do something.


That's kinda the point of throwing more money at them, because the vast majority of inner-city schools don't have anything remotely close to adequate funding.

And a school needs more than just talented teachers when we are talking about these kind of environments. It needs social programs to help students cope with their home situations and the money to spend on fostering an education-centric culture amongst the student-body.

That's the real problem behind performance-based funding reductions. The first things to go have to be these programs (because the school can't even exist without teachers). But without the programs, the school has absolutely no hope of boosting its scores. So it just enters a downward spiral where performance is concerned.

Plus, you'd be surprised how many teachers willingly work in these schools (despite lower pay) because they feel like their work makes the biggest difference there. Many of them are quite talented. The problem is that who you have at the front of the classroom is actually one of the most minor factors.

[EDIT]

I'll add an example. My brother works in a charter school near Atlantic City, which is filled with students from rough, low-income neighborhoods. Many of them were actually expelled from public schools for behavioral problems. And I don't even mean violence, I mean the kind of thing that the public schools just don't have the resources to address.

For instance, some of these kids would just consistently disturb classes. In a middle-upper income district, they'd end up spending time in detention or with a counselor. Not so much in these schools. They get a few chances and then they are out. Why? Because the schools need to pay teachers to proctor detention, and they don't have enough money to hire the number of counselors they need. Kinda hard to pencil in time for the class clowns when 10% of the student body is getting abused at home.

Charter schools operate at 90% funding, which means the teachers only get 90% pay. But my brother's school largely has quality faculty, despite that, because they feel like they are doing something real there--like they have the chance to truly help change a students' life. Of course, the skillset needed for this type of school is vastly different than others, but they all know their subjects, know how to teach, and know how to control a classroom. Problem is that, despite a solid staff, the test scores aren't good enough to get them more funding. And the school has nothing in terms of extracurriculars.

My brother even started an intramural basketball club. The catch is that he doesn't get paid for it, like he would in a normal school. He does it just because he's trying to foster in these kids a sense of self-worth and an attachment to the school.

That would normally be the project of the administration, and invested in. The problem is that they have started with a group of kids guaranteed to under-perform. So despite their best efforts, their funding gets slashed. And without funding (and with all their time and resources tied up in disciplinary problems) it just won't happen.

But until these kids form a desire to learn, they won't. And they won't come to desire that unless given a real reason to.

If his school had the money to spend on hiring some more counselors and cultivating a school identity, the students would probably do far better. But they won't get that funding until the students DO do better. But the students won't do better until those programs are available.

I recognize you might be fully aware of this. I just thought it was important to note that the best teachers in the world can't do crap in this kind of environment if they have no resources.

Edited, May 8th 2011 1:40am by idiggory
____________________________
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people

lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
#12 May 08 2011 at 12:09 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
.......when you find a stranger in the Alps!
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#13 May 08 2011 at 12:41 AM Rating: Good
****
6,471 posts
Jophiel wrote:
.......when you find a stranger in the Alps!


*******! I clicked this thread solely with the intention of writing that. Smiley: mad

Also: Oh, deja vu.

Edited, May 8th 2011 2:46am by Eske
#14 May 08 2011 at 3:05 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
****
9,997 posts
Obviously the answer is private schools, because they're so much more efficient (even though they're totally not and most Detroit families couldn't afford better anyway).

This is totally a failing of public education and not an indication of other social problems.
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#15 May 08 2011 at 5:13 AM Rating: Good
****
9,346 posts
Quote:
A whole lot of money.


Theifguy, that's how you improve the education system, so I take it that you're either refusing to answer the question, or, and I suppose this is fairly unlikely, you're agreeing that you can't have a good education system without funding.

Quote:
What we need to do is throw more of other people's money at the problem. That will fix it.


Well, yes. If you were to remove public funding, the average education level of the entire country would drop due to many families not being able to afford to send their children to the privately funded schools(which, without public funding, would be the only schools).

This isn't really something that can be any different, if you want a basic k-12 education for all citizens, then it has to be publicly funded.
____________________________
10k before the site's inevitable death or bust

The World Is Not A Cold Dead Place.
Alan Watts wrote:
I am omnipotent insofar as I am the Universe, but I am not an omnipotent in the role of Alan Watts, only cunning


Eske wrote:
I've always read Driftwood as the straight man in varus' double act. It helps if you read all of his posts in the voice of Droopy Dog.
#16 May 08 2011 at 6:04 AM Rating: Good
****
7,819 posts
I can't say that "You get what you pay for." But states that spend more on education and keep good teachers
have the better results. Just from my travels across the country and living in different states. My experiences with kids and education follows that line. Just from my experiences in college showed me that even schools in towns can be much better than another city on the other side of the state or even states close by.
____________________________
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v619/ImGatomon/Request.jpg

. “Power even if it is raw uncontrolled potential is just as dangerous as a trained assassin. It is unpredictable and deadly if your are not prepared." ~Gatomon From the story A Fox Among Wolves.
#17 May 08 2011 at 7:45 AM Rating: Excellent
Annoying Ass
ZAM Administrator
Avatar
*****
12,049 posts
Wooo! Florida is only number 36! I'm surprised the state didn't make the bottom 10 Smiley: tongue
____________________________
Retired News Writer for the ZAM Network
WoW - Aureliano the Insane - level 90 Druid on Sen'Jin
Nanaoki - level 90 Mage on Sen'Jin
#18 May 08 2011 at 10:04 AM Rating: Good
****
7,861 posts
I was a little upset that Ohio was as low as it was. I know I came out of the system with a good public education. There are certainly failing schools in the state however. Cincinnati Public is one of them.
____________________________
People don't like to be meddled with. We tell them what to do, what to think, don't run, don't walk. We're in their homes and in their heads and we haven't the right. We're meddlesome. ~River Tam

Sedao
#19 May 08 2011 at 11:26 AM Rating: Good
The Duck Whisperer
*****
15,512 posts
LockeColeMA wrote:
Wooo! Florida is only number 36! I'm surprised the state didn't make the bottom 10 Smiley: tongue
Texas: We're close to positive!
____________________________
Iamadam the Prophet wrote:

You know that feeling you get when you have a little bit of hope, only to have it ripped away? Sweetums feeds on that.
#20 May 08 2011 at 3:21 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
******
29,373 posts
LockeColeMA wrote:
Wooo! Florida is only number 36! I'm surprised the state didn't make the bottom 10 Smiley: tongue
I am not surprised at my state's ranking, but am slightly amused at our score.
#21 May 08 2011 at 9:18 PM Rating: Good
Under A Thumb...
*****
10,012 posts
Just think of all the money the city will save because they don't have to fund the libraries anymore.

Good news!
____________________________
Quote:
I would imagine that if you could understand Morse code, a tap dancer would drive you crazy.
Lebowski Fest | Church of the Latter-Day Dude | Nick And Dooie!
#22 May 08 2011 at 10:11 PM Rating: Good
****
9,526 posts
ThiefX wrote:
This what happens when you let liberalism take over completely.


Detroit


I am honestly puzzled by this statement. What about liberalism creates illiteracy?

Could you please try to make a cogent argument instead of just tossing out inflammatory statements?

Google wrote:
Definitions of liberalism on the Web:

* a political orientation that favors social progress by reform and by changing laws rather than by revolution
* an economic theory advocating free competition and a self-regulating market

* Liberalism (from the Latin liberalis, "of freedom") is the belief in the importance of liberty and equal rights. ...

* Liberalism in the United States is a broad political and philosophical mindset favoring individual liberty.

* The quality of being liberal; Any political movement founded on the autonomy and personal freedom of the individual, progress and reform, and government by law with the consent of the governed; An economic theory in favour of laissez faire and the free market

* liberal - broad: showing or characterized by broad-mindedness; "a broad political stance"; "generous and broad sympathies"; "a liberal newspaper"; "tolerant of his opponent's opinions"
* liberal - tolerant of change; not bound by authoritarianism, orthodoxy, or tradition
* liberal - a person who favors a political philosophy of progress and reform and the protection of civil liberties
* liberal - big: given or giving freely; "was a big tipper"; "the bounteous goodness of God"; "bountiful compliments"; "a freehanded host"; "a handsome allowance"; "Saturday's child is loving and giving"; "a liberal backer of the arts"; "a munificent gift"; "her fond and openhanded grandfather"
* liberal - free: not literal; "a loose interpretation of what she had been told"; "a free translation of the poem"


So what about Liberalism creates illiteracy? Tolerance of different viewpoints? A belief in gradual reform? Promotion of free market economics?

Please, enlighten us.
____________________________
lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#23 May 08 2011 at 10:39 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
****
9,997 posts
Obviously because public education is a liberal tenet, and public education isn't always great, liberalism is to blame. Correlation= causation. There's no way that things would actually be worse if there were no public education at all.

Knowing what's under the hood of the argument, you might be inclined to think it's some simple misunderstanding. Oh no-- this is some carefully orchestrated denial. A much more complicated fix than you might think.
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#24 May 09 2011 at 5:16 AM Rating: Default
The All Knowing
Avatar
*****
10,152 posts
Wow, a state actually got beat out by Mississippi...
#25MoebiusLord, Posted: May 09 2011 at 9:15 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Ladies and gentlemen, the product of higher education.
#26 May 09 2011 at 12:44 PM Rating: Decent
Muggle@#%^er
******
20,020 posts
Quote:
Ladies and gentlemen, the product of higher education.

Most of you are ignoring the specifics of the article and the thread and trying to turn this in to an education spending thread. It's not surprising, just counter-productive. Detroit has been in the hands of the Democrat Party for decades. The policies that have driven money out and entrenched questionable spending are directly to blame for the state of education in that city. They are causal.


And state and federal politics obviously have no impact on how well a school performs. And Detroit is obviously a rich city that would be able to completely fund all its schools on its own. Nice, small little scope you have there. Very quaint.

In any case, the article wasn't even about schools. But the only reasonable way you could believe liberalism would lead to illiteracy is by blaming them. Thus, if we are going to respond to the OP's claim, you'd have to talk about schools and partisan approaches to them.

This thread was about schools and partisan issues from the start.

Why is that hard to understand?
____________________________
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people

lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 70 All times are in CDT
Anonymous Guests (70)