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Obama releases long form birth cert.Follow

#77 Apr 27 2011 at 7:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
No. I said I don't agree with them

But gave them your full-throated defense again and again and again. No, really, we all believe you.

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Who cares if there's an incredibly tiny number of people out there who'll continue to cling to some reason to attack Obama? We can safely ignore them, and the GOP can move on (which is the more relevant issue here).

The whole Birther thing started as a lunatic fringe element. Cute that now you'd say "Oh, they don't matter because it's just a lunatic fringe..."

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you don't see me quoting crazy left-wingers on Daily KOS

You could. I'd actually say they're retards if they're acting retarded though instead of playing some "Well, I don't AGREE with them, of course, but here's fifteen paragraphs saying why they're totally correct..." Kind of like I've never gotten on the Truther wagon or called for Bush to be impeached or imprisoned for war crimes any of that other nonsense.

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You're conveniently after the fact choosing to apply that label only to those who are still convinced that Obama wasn't born in Hawaii (or that his qualifications are invalid for some other bizarre reason). You've never used it that way in the past though, have you?

I would apply the Birther label to any of you who had the pathological need to scream "Where's the REAL certificate?!" after Obama had presented a perfectly legal one, accepted in all 50 states, back in 2008. Watching you spin in circles in this thread, still insisting that that birth certificate didn't count only reinforces my belief that it's accurate.
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#78 Apr 27 2011 at 7:16 PM Rating: Decent
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gbaji wrote:
Do you think the DNC actually checked his full form birth certificate either?

I do. Do you really think the DNC would be dumb enough not to do their own background check on the first black Presidential nominee? Major party, that is.

Edit: Let me rephrase that, I'm sure the DNC checked all necessary forms to ensure legitimacy.

Edited, Apr 27th 2011 9:25pm by Debalic
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#79 Apr 27 2011 at 7:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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I smirked at the New Yorker's characterization of Trump as "Birther of a Nation".

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#80 Apr 27 2011 at 7:32 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm pretty sure this is the real one around..
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#81 Apr 27 2011 at 9:39 PM Rating: Decent
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lulz, but im curious, what is Trumps campaign going to be now?
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#82 Apr 27 2011 at 9:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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Trump was already making noise today about Obama's grades. Perhaps he'll demand to see his third grade report card.
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#83 Apr 27 2011 at 9:41 PM Rating: Good
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rdmcandie wrote:
lulz, but im curious, what is Trumps campaign going to be now?


Obama faked his way through college. By either pretending to be a foreign exchange student, or by actually not going to school and faking it all. He was a horrible student, so there is no way it actually got in...

The big question now:
Why hasn't he released his school records!!?!


(Don't you read the thread?)
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#84 Apr 27 2011 at 9:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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rdmcandie wrote:
lulz, but im curious, what is Trumps campaign going to be now?
"Obama is driving the country into debt! I'm very experienced with bankruptcy!"
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#85 Apr 28 2011 at 12:06 AM Rating: Good
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Demea wrote:
Not that I ever really doubted Obama's citizenship, but why pick now to release it? Was Donald Trump really pestering him that badly?

Timing. The point of the presentation, whether it was targeted at Trump or republican candidates in general, was the neuter the line of attack where they merely question his citizenship to keep the issue fresh in the minds of voters. For Republicans candidates to hurt Obama they need to only keep doubt alive. If people are talking about it, then they have scored some point. For Obama to come out optimally he doesn't need to prove anything, rather he needs to prevent it from being discussed. By doing this now he has forced the debate early. People will be focused on this subject now and interest will die down once the actual campaign is in full gear. Those questioning his birth are forced to either let the issue of "where's the birth certificate" die or to critique his presentation more specifically--risking appearing like paranoid fanatics.
#86 Apr 28 2011 at 5:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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SurveyUSA wrote:
A SurveyUSA nationwide poll, including cell-phone and landline respondents, conducted after the White House 04/27/11 released a more detailed certificate showing the President's birth, shows that 71% of Americans who have seen the newly public "long-form" now are satisfied that the President was born in the United States. 18% of those who have seen the certificate still have doubts about where the President was born. Another 10% say the document released by the White House is a forgery.
[...]
* 18% say they still have doubts about where the President was born (including 40% of Tea Party, 33% of Republicans, 27% of Conservatives.)
* 10% say they are sure the document released 04/27/11 is a forgery (including 17% of Tea Party , 18% of Republicans, 16% of Conservatives)
[...]
9% of Americans consider themselves to be part of the "Birther" movement.

Yeah, the Birther position is just a few wackos and doesn't represent any significant portion of the GOP at all and it's sooooo unfair to try to connect them.

To follow up on what Allegory said (and almost the reverse of Gbaji's claim), a not-insignificant portion of people will continue to harp on this and declare it a forgery or say there's still "real big" questions. By releasing the certificate now, those people will be seen as increasingly irrational and it'll be up to the GOP how they want to handle the 20-30% of their voter base who still clings to the Birther mindset.

Edited, Apr 28th 2011 6:48am by Jophiel
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#87 Apr 28 2011 at 7:05 AM Rating: Good
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rdmcandie wrote:
lulz, but im curious, what is Trumps campaign going to be now?


He's in Vegas today promoting what he calls "the new reagan revolution."
#88varusword75, Posted: Apr 28 2011 at 8:34 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Allego
#89 Apr 28 2011 at 8:38 AM Rating: Good
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Trump would have totally won the next presidential election if Obama didn't release the long form birth certificate.
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#90 Apr 28 2011 at 8:41 AM Rating: Good
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varusword75 wrote:
Allego

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The point of the presentation, whether it was targeted at Trump or republican candidates in general, was the neuter the line of attack where they merely question his citizenship to keep the issue fresh in the minds of voters.


bs...the point of the presentation was the polls were starting to turn against Obama and he realized this was no longer a winning issue for him. The second it became a political liability, that's when he decided to release it.

Obama the great divider.


They're all great dividers. At least now we know for sure (again) he was born in America.
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#91 Apr 28 2011 at 8:43 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Trump would have totally won the next presidential election if Obama didn't release the long form birth certificate.


No question
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#92 Apr 28 2011 at 8:46 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Trump would have totally won the next presidential election if Obama didn't release the long form birth certificate.
TRUMP/PALIN '12
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#93 Apr 28 2011 at 8:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
To me, it's like the jerk who is asked for ID at a bar, and presents a library card, then a temporary license paper, then says that he's got a friend who can vouch for him, and then after an hour of this he finally pulls out his wallet and shows his ID and wonders why the bartender made such a big deal out of it. Um... Because you're being a jerk and no one else thought it was funny? Sigh...


What its more like would be the jerk at the bar asking for the patron's Drivers License, which the patron promptly produces, but the jerk at the bar looks at it but doesn't want to let him in and says "No... this says its a License to Drive, what we need is a Drivers License". THAT's what its like.
#94 Apr 28 2011 at 8:53 AM Rating: Decent
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varusword75 wrote:
bs...the point of the presentation was the polls were starting to turn against Obama and he realized this was no longer a winning issue for him. The second it became a political liability, that's when he decided to release it.

No, and you're pretty much saying this only to be contary. Having people question his citizenship while he is campaigning was a liability, regardless of your delusions of his citizenship surely you can agree to that. By doing this now rather than later he forces the discussion now. People will talk about it and say the bulk of what they have to say now rather than later, leaving the issue largely forgotten by the majority of people in the year preceding the election.

If he waited, he would just have given the issue prominence while he was campaigning, a losing move for him. If he did it any sooner, then too much time would have passed, people would have forgotten about the long form, and republicans would have had too much time to revamp their method of attack in this area.
#95 Apr 28 2011 at 9:37 AM Rating: Decent
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varusword75 wrote:
Obama the great divider.
71/28 is a bit of a one-sided divider.

Divider between uneducated lunatics and sanity, maybe. I'm quite content with that division.
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#96 Apr 28 2011 at 12:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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Someone needs to release an anonymous video showing the process to photoshop that birth certificate into Donald Trumps birth certificate. That would be hilarious.
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#97 Apr 28 2011 at 1:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't think Donald Trump's hairpiece is a natural born citizen, and I'm against his nomination until I see it's birth certificate.
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#98varusword75, Posted: Apr 28 2011 at 2:40 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) It's a fake!!!
#99 Apr 28 2011 at 2:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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How did Kapi'olani Maternity and Gynecological Hospital not exist in 1978 when the facility changed its name to that in 1931?
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#100 Apr 28 2011 at 2:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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varusword75 wrote:

Also do any of you liberals know what it takes to be a "natural born citizen"?

Seems I read somewhere that BOTH your parents had to be american citizens for you to qualify to be president. Is that not true?


It is not true. I already linked the SCotUS case (either here or in the other thread where I derailed into judicial review). It's been acknowledged in a 1898 decision that since the Constitution doesn't have a definition, the SCotUS recognizes "natural born" as being born in the US or its territories. The citizenship of the parents has no bearing whatsoever.

Edit: This is actually one of the big issues people have with the 14th amendment. Just think! An anchor baby could become President!

Edited, Apr 28th 2011 4:58pm by LockeColeMA
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#101 Apr 28 2011 at 2:59 PM Rating: Default
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Debalic wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Do you think the DNC actually checked his full form birth certificate either?

I do. Do you really think the DNC would be dumb enough not to do their own background check on the first black Presidential nominee? Major party, that is.


Yes, I absolutely do. And remember, it's not about being "dumb". Let me ask you a question: At what point in the primary process do you think a political party will go dig up documentation in order to verify a candidates credentials? And if Obama handed them the same certification he put online, would they demand that he give them the full certificate? Of course they wouldn't.

Let me remind you that the birther movement started with the Clinton campaign. They were the first ones to question Obama on this. That's what prompted the original release of the certification. If the DNC had already checked Obama's full long form vital records prior to that point, why would Clinton's campaign have asked the question? The answer is obviously that they hadn't checked those records at that point.

Do you think they'd go check them once he won the nomination? There's no result except political disaster by doing that. If the documentation is fine, you gain nothing. But if there are any issues or irregularities with it, you just give ammunition to the other side. And that's even barring the possibility that there are major problems with it and you've just blown your own candidate out of the race. It's a lose/lose to check at that point.

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Edit: Let me rephrase that, I'm sure the DNC checked all necessary forms to ensure legitimacy.


I'm sure you are wrong. I suspect that they did what they do with every candidate. They accept an affidavit from said candidate attesting that he meets the requirements. They then continue as though that's true, signing affidavits themselves attesting to the same fact. Unless something comes up to make one question the candidate's word, you'd never actually demand documentation. I'd be shocked if any party does. Yet you assume they did? Why?

The question only came up mid way through the primaries. And Obama showed the certification and that was good enough for the Democrats. I'll say again: Why would there have been any question among Democrats if they had already checked and verified the full records prior to him even entering the primary race? They didn't check then, and they didn't check when Clinton asked, and they certainly didn't check after he won the nomination.
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