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#302 Apr 27 2011 at 9:18 AM Rating: Good
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
When you get to a point that you can no longer explain something, you have to accept that anything(that can't be proven impossible) is possible. You can say something is less likely, but you can't completely rule it out. Unless you want be as retarded as them.
What phil said, pretty much.

If you're talking about natural selection, no one has ever said that it is random. Ever.
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#303 Apr 27 2011 at 9:19 AM Rating: Decent
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bsphil wrote:
Ailitardif, Star Breaker wrote:
The only difference between you and me is that I don't believe it is random.
It's not random. There are driving chemical/physical forces behind why we came to be.

Uglysasquatch wrote:
When you get to a point that you can no longer explain something, you have to accept that anything(that can't be proven impossible) is possible.
Or better yet, say "we as a society don't know this answer yet" and continue researching.



Edited, Apr 27th 2011 10:04am by bsphil


Yes. We don't have all of the answers yet. I am 100% open to these answers as well. In the meantime, I don't see how faith in god has to be harmful. Again, I am not supporting teaching faith as science. I do not believe that religion should be forced on anybody.

I think the problem comes in when people treat their belief as set in stone and are not open to possibilities that are different.

As I said before, my beliefs have changed a lot over time and I expect them to continue to evolve over time.
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#304 Apr 27 2011 at 9:24 AM Rating: Good
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Ailitardif, Star Breaker wrote:
Yes. We don't have all of the answers yet. I am 100% open to these answers as well. In the meantime, I don't see how faith in god has to be harmful.
It's not harmful, it's just a non-answer. This is why the supernatural should never be used as a naturalistic explanation. It is my opinion that they are non-overlapping magisteria. Religion should not enter into science, science should not enter into religion. One deals with facts, the other deals with beliefs.


Ailitardif, Star Breaker wrote:
Again, I am not supporting teaching faith as science. I do not believe that religion should be forced on anybody.
Then you'll receive no argument from me on that front.

Ailitardif, Star Breaker wrote:
I think the problem comes in when people treat their belief as set in stone and are not open to possibilities that are different.

As I said before, my beliefs have changed a lot over time and I expect them to continue to evolve over time.
What's set in stone? I used to be a Catholic, but now I don't believe in any gods, but I am open to the possibility. If one god or many gods can be conclusively and satisfactorily proven then I'll accept their existence. I'm saying that until that moment arises assuming supernatural causes for natural phenomena is not useful.

Edited, Apr 27th 2011 11:27am by Nilatai
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#305 Apr 27 2011 at 9:26 AM Rating: Good
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
When you get to a point that you can no longer explain something, you have to accept that anything(that can't be proven impossible) is possible. You can say something is less likely, but you can't completely rule it out. Unless you want be as retarded as them.
Just because we can't explain how gravity works doesn't mean we can't rule out people flying on their own accord.
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#306 Apr 27 2011 at 9:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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Bardalicious wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
When you get to a point that you can no longer explain something, you have to accept that anything(that can't be proven impossible) is possible. You can say something is less likely, but you can't completely rule it out. Unless you want be as retarded as them.
Just because we can't explain how gravity works doesn't mean we can't rule out people flying on their own accord.


There's no such thing as gravity, the Earth just sucks.
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#307 Apr 27 2011 at 9:42 AM Rating: Good
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Nilatai wrote:
Ailitardif, Star Breaker wrote:
Yes. We don't have all of the answers yet. I am 100% open to these answers as well. In the meantime, I don't see how faith in god has to be harmful.
It's not harmful, it's just a non-answer. This is why the supernatural should never be used as a naturalistic explanation. It is my opinion that they are non-overlapping magisteria. Religion should not enter into science, science should not enter into religion. One deals with facts, the other deals with beliefs.


Ailitardif, Star Breaker wrote:
Again, I am not supporting teaching faith as science. I do not believe that religion should be forced on anybody.
Then you'll receive no argument from me on that front.

Ailitardif, Star Breaker wrote:
I think the problem comes in when people treat their belief as set in stone and are not open to possibilities that are different.

As I said before, my beliefs have changed a lot over time and I expect them to continue to evolve over time.
What's set in stone? I used to be a Catholic, but now I don't believe in any gods, but I am open to the possibility. If one god or many gods can be conclusively and satisfactorily proven then I'll accept their existence. I'm saying that until that moment arises assuming supernatural causes for natural phenomena is not useful.

Edited, Apr 27th 2011 11:27am by Nilatai


How cool would it be if I could prove it?

I will do the next best thing. If I am right, I will buy you a beer or coffee in the afterlife. If you are right...well, we can't really make that type of deal.
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#308 Apr 27 2011 at 9:50 AM Rating: Good
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Bardalicious wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
When you get to a point that you can no longer explain something, you have to accept that anything(that can't be proven impossible) is possible. You can say something is less likely, but you can't completely rule it out. Unless you want be as retarded as them.
Just because we can't explain how gravity works doesn't mean we can't rule out people flying on their own accord.
Reread what you quoted. I clearly pointed out that it only applies to what can't be proven as impossible.
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#309 Apr 27 2011 at 9:54 AM Rating: Good
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bsphil wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
When you get to a point that you can no longer explain something, you have to accept that anything(that can't be proven impossible) is possible.
Or better yet, say "we as a society don't know this answer yet" and continue researching.
Oh hai gbaji logic. Don't like that there may be another possibility, so refuse it as possible despite being unable to disprove it.

Look, I'm fairly firm in the "there is no God" camp, but that doesn't mean we can't rule it out, as we can't disprove it. Is it likely? **** no! But until an answer is found, its possible.
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#310 Apr 27 2011 at 9:59 AM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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Eske Esquire wrote:
Nilatai wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
Bardalicious wrote:
Once you can't explain it, the answer doesn't boil down to "god" "magick" or "because you touch yourself" it just is because it is.
You're allowed to say it just is, but they can't?
There comes a point where you can gain no more information by asking "why?", this is when you get to things like Bard mentioned. Saying "Magic" or "god/gods" may be okay for some people but it does not advance understanding in any way shape or form. That's his point, I think.


Louis CK wrote:
This is my daughter the other day. She's like:

"Papa, why can't we go outside?"
"Well, 'cause it's raining."
"Why?"
"Well, water's coming out of the sky."
"Why?"
"Because it was in a cloud."
"Why?"
"Well....clouds form when there's vapor."
"Why?"
"...I don't know. I don't know any more things. Those are all the things I know."
"Why?"
"'Cause I'm stupid, okay, I'm stupid."
"Why?"
"Well because I didn't pay attention in school, okay? I went to school, but I didn't listen in class."
"Why?"
"'Cause I was high all the time, okay? I smoked too much pot."
"Why?"
"'Cause my parents gave me no guidance, okay? They didn't give a sh*t."
"Why?"
"'Cause they @#%^ed in the back of the car and had me, and they resented me for taking their youth."
"Why?"
"Because they had bad morals, they had no compass."
"Why?"
"Because they had sh*tty parents. It just keeps going like that."
"Why?"
"Because @#%^ it, we're alone in the universe. Nobody gives a sh*t about us."


I'm gonna stop there to be polite to you for a second. But this goes on for hours and hours, and it gets so weird and abstract it's like:

"Why?"
"Well, because some things are, and some things are not."
"Why?"
"Well, because things that are not can't be."
"Why?"
"Well, because nothing wouldn't be! You can't have @#%^ing nothing isn't, everything is!
"Why?"
"Ah @#%^ you, eat your french fries you little sh*t."
Rate up for Louis CK reference.
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#311 Apr 27 2011 at 10:01 AM Rating: Good
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
bsphil wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
When you get to a point that you can no longer explain something, you have to accept that anything(that can't be proven impossible) is possible.
Or better yet, say "we as a society don't know this answer yet" and continue researching.
Oh hai gbaji logic. Don't like that there may be another possibility, so refuse it as possible despite being unable to disprove it.

Look, I'm fairly firm in the "there is no God" camp, but that doesn't mean we can't rule it out, as we can't disprove it. Is it likely? @#%^ no! But until an answer is found, its possible.
We don't have to disprove it. The fact that all the evidence ever uncovered has pointed firmly in the other direction is enough for us to rule it out as "extremely unlikely".



Thanks to Quantum theory, we can't say anything is impossible. There's an incredibly small chance that you'll spontaneously pop completely out of existence, this doesn't mean we should be worried about that happening.
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#312 Apr 27 2011 at 10:07 AM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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Ailitardif, Star Breaker wrote:
Yes. We don't have all of the answers yet. I am 100% open to these answers as well. In the meantime, I don't see how faith in god has to be harmful. Again, I am not supporting teaching faith as science. I do not believe that religion should be forced on anybody.
Right.

Ailitardif, Star Breaker wrote:
I think the problem comes in when people treat their belief as set in stone and are not open to possibilities that are different.

As I said before, my beliefs have changed a lot over time and I expect them to continue to evolve over time.
Right, that's why I said this:
bsphil wrote:
Or better yet, say "we as a society don't know this answer yet" and continue researching.
I'm motivated to change my ideas by new evidence and new research, not by a lack of it.
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Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
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#313 Apr 27 2011 at 10:08 AM Rating: Good
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Nilati wrote:
We don't have to disprove it.
Right, because it just is.
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#314 Apr 27 2011 at 10:13 AM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
bsphil wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
When you get to a point that you can no longer explain something, you have to accept that anything(that can't be proven impossible) is possible.
Or better yet, say "we as a society don't know this answer yet" and continue researching.
Oh hai gbaji logic. Don't like that there may be another possibility, so refuse it as possible despite being unable to disprove it.

Look, I'm fairly firm in the "there is no God" camp, but that doesn't mean we can't rule it out, as we can't disprove it. Is it likely? @#%^ no! But until an answer is found, its possible.
I don't give credence to ideas until there's evidence that convinces me to. If you go back to the atheist/agnostic thread I elaborate more on that exact point that you cannot prove/disprove the nonexistence of a god (or of anything for that matter), which is why I'm an 'agnostic atheist'.
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#315 Apr 27 2011 at 10:14 AM Rating: Good
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
Nilati wrote:
We don't have to disprove it.
Right, because it just is.
The models we have seem to work without the assumption of a supernatural being.
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Solrain wrote:
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#316 Apr 27 2011 at 10:23 AM Rating: Good
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Nilatai wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
Nilati wrote:
We don't have to disprove it.
Right, because it just is.
The models we have seem to work without the assumption of a supernatural being.
Only to a point and then you run out of things that work. So then you make other assumptions and rule out that which you can't actually rule out. Way to bring this full circle.
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#317 Apr 27 2011 at 10:24 AM Rating: Good
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bsphil wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
bsphil wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
When you get to a point that you can no longer explain something, you have to accept that anything(that can't be proven impossible) is possible.
Or better yet, say "we as a society don't know this answer yet" and continue researching.
Oh hai gbaji logic. Don't like that there may be another possibility, so refuse it as possible despite being unable to disprove it.

Look, I'm fairly firm in the "there is no God" camp, but that doesn't mean we can't rule it out, as we can't disprove it. Is it likely? @#%^ no! But until an answer is found, its possible.
I don't give credence to ideas until there's evidence that convinces me to. If you go back to the atheist/agnostic thread I elaborate more on that exact point that you cannot prove/disprove the nonexistence of a god (or of anything for that matter), which is why I'm an 'agnostic atheist'.
So, because "it just is" isn't an answer for you? Then why did you bother replying at all?
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#318 Apr 27 2011 at 10:30 AM Rating: Good
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
Nilatai wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
Nilati wrote:
We don't have to disprove it.
Right, because it just is.
The models we have seem to work without the assumption of a supernatural being.
Only to a point and then you run out of things that work. So then you make other assumptions and rule out that which you can't actually rule out. Way to bring this full circle.
What point?
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#319 Apr 27 2011 at 10:40 AM Rating: Good
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I'm not sure anymore. I may have pulled an Alma. I've lost too much interest in this discussion to look back and see.
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#320 Apr 27 2011 at 10:42 AM Rating: Good
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'Kay. I wasn't sure what we were talking about any more either, to be honest.
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Solrain wrote:
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LordFaramir wrote:
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#321 Apr 27 2011 at 1:00 PM Rating: Good
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
Bardalicious wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
When you get to a point that you can no longer explain something, you have to accept that anything(that can't be proven impossible) is possible. You can say something is less likely, but you can't completely rule it out. Unless you want be as retarded as them.
Just because we can't explain how gravity works doesn't mean we can't rule out people flying on their own accord.
Reread what you quoted. I clearly pointed out that it only applies to what can't be proven as impossible.

How do you prove something as impossible?
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#322 Apr 27 2011 at 1:07 PM Rating: Good
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Bardalicious wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
Bardalicious wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
When you get to a point that you can no longer explain something, you have to accept that anything(that can't be proven impossible) is possible. You can say something is less likely, but you can't completely rule it out. Unless you want be as retarded as them.
Just because we can't explain how gravity works doesn't mean we can't rule out people flying on their own accord.
Reread what you quoted. I clearly pointed out that it only applies to what can't be proven as impossible.

How do you prove something as impossible?


Cash
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#323 Apr 27 2011 at 1:23 PM Rating: Good
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Bardalicious wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
Bardalicious wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
When you get to a point that you can no longer explain something, you have to accept that anything(that can't be proven impossible) is possible. You can say something is less likely, but you can't completely rule it out. Unless you want be as retarded as them.
Just because we can't explain how gravity works doesn't mean we can't rule out people flying on their own accord.
Reread what you quoted. I clearly pointed out that it only applies to what can't be proven as impossible.

How do you prove something as impossible?
Nothing is impossible. It's just some things are so very unlikely that we may as well call them impossible.
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Solrain wrote:
WARs can use semi-colons however we want. I once killed a guy with a semi-colon.

LordFaramir wrote:
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#324Almalieque, Posted: Apr 27 2011 at 4:57 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) All you have done was respond in something that was never questioned, now answer the question.
#325 Apr 27 2011 at 5:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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Almalieque wrote:
Uh, nice try, but my point was on the question that you conveniently "forgot" to answer below..
Almalieque wrote:
So, if I missed your mark, then what was the relevance in mentioning homosexuality in nature?
All you have done was respond in something that was never questioned, now answer the question.
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American tabbies are not leopards. American tabbies are felines. Leopards are felines. If I see behavior in the population of American tabbies and see it also in the population of leopards (and tigers and ocelots and servals), it's probably safe to explore the theory that this is feline behavior and not purely some bizarre and unnatural American tabby behavior.
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#326 Apr 27 2011 at 5:18 PM Rating: Good
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I'm not sure if there's a point in rating you up Joph, but I did it any way.
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LordFaramir wrote:
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