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#277 Apr 27 2011 at 6:36 AM Rating: Good
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Its not my inability to follow a though process, its your inability to create one logically. I'm not interested enough in discussing anything with you to go back and read your mess to find an example. Ask someone who gives a sh*t, as I was simply clarifying a point for you.

Given that the general consensus is that you are stupid, how about you prove how you're not.

Edited, Apr 27th 2011 9:45am by Uglysasquatch
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#278 Apr 27 2011 at 6:38 AM Rating: Good
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Ailitardif, Star Breaker wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
Ailitardif, Star Breaker wrote:
Maybe in order to teach it as science in schools they would need to prove it
Wasn't that the point of the discussion?


That discussion with Alma? I guess, could you even follow that?
I have given up following any discussion with him. He's completely hopeless. His only use now is for insulting and ridiculing.
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#279 Apr 27 2011 at 6:58 AM Rating: Good
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
Ailitardif, Star Breaker wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
Ailitardif, Star Breaker wrote:
Maybe in order to teach it as science in schools they would need to prove it
Wasn't that the point of the discussion?


That discussion with Alma? I guess, could you even follow that?
I have given up following any discussion with him. He's completely hopeless. His only use now is for insulting and ridiculing.


Yeah...

Anyway, I was trying to point out that not all religious types support teaching creation as science. My faith would be best described as unitarian universalist. This is a church that even some agnostics and atheists go to.

My belief in God doesn't prevent me from knowing that evolution is real (I can't ignore scientific facts). I do believe that evolution and the universe is controled, but I of course can't prove it. That's what faith is for, but faith is not science.

I believe that my beliefs are right, but I don't believe that people who don't follow my beliefs are wrong. I think that all modern religion is just a different interpretation of the same thing (yes, even aethism). I know, I'm weird.

My beliefs also change as I learn more. I used to believe that if you weren't Christian you would burn in **** for all eternity. I no longer even believe in ****.

I'm rambling now, so I will shut up.
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#280 Apr 27 2011 at 7:04 AM Rating: Good
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Almalieque wrote:
Nilatai wrote:
Alma, you said this and genuinely thought you were making some kind of brilliant point:

You wrote:
So apes are humans?


That's all I need to show you are not an intelligent person.


Almalieque wrote:

My entire counter to your "we're animals" argument is that there are differences between animals and humans regardless if you consider humans as animals or not. You countered that humans are apes, disregarding that distinction, implying that we are animals, great apes to be exact. So, by baboons being ***, it's natural for humans to be *** or something to that effect.

Well, I simply turned your statement around to say "oh, apes are humans?". Obviously you don't believe that. So, if it doesn't work both ways, then that means that there are not equal and there exist a difference between the two. In other words, just because something is natural with an ape or baboon, doesn't mean it's natural with humans because we aren't the same thing! Else, you would have agreed to the "apes are humans".


I already explained that to you. Just because it's natural for a cheetah to run at incredible fast rates, doesn't make it natural for a house cat to do the same because they are both cats. They are two different animals.

So, if I missed your mark, then what was the relevance in mentioning homosexuality in nature?
What you said was equivalent to "All fish are Sharks", just because all Sharks are fish does not make the converse statement true. You're an idiot if you think you were making some kind of brilliant point by saying this.

Humans, **** Sapiens, are a species of great ape. Just like Gorillas are a species of Great Ape. This doesn't mean all Apes are Gorillas. Do you understand what I am saying, because I honestly don't believe you do.

Humans are:

Vertebrates - we share attributes with all other vertebrates.
Placentals - We share attributes with all other placentals.
Mammals - we share attributes with all other mammals.
Primates - we share attributes with all other primates.
Great Apes - we share attributes with all other great apes.

This does not mean that I am saying that all other species that fit into any one of these categories also have to be Human. This is the crux of your fallacious "counter-argument". It is disingenuous to the highest degree.
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#281 Apr 27 2011 at 7:13 AM Rating: Good
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Ailitardif, Star Breaker wrote:
This isn't about evolution, but how do you explain water?

In every other substance known to man the solid is more dense than the liquid, but not with water. If this were true with water, then life would not exist. That just happened randomly?

I'm not trying to prove that God is real here, just curious as to what you all think about this.


Nope, it's not the only one that does that. Silicon, gallium, germanium, antimony, bismuth, and plutonium do it too. It depends on how the molecules come together. Water's shape causes it to form a hexagonal lattice.
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#282 Apr 27 2011 at 7:25 AM Rating: Decent
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Sweetums wrote:
Ailitardif, Star Breaker wrote:
This isn't about evolution, but how do you explain water?

In every other substance known to man the solid is more dense than the liquid, but not with water. If this were true with water, then life would not exist. That just happened randomly?

I'm not trying to prove that God is real here, just curious as to what you all think about this.


Nope, it's not the only one that does that. Silicon, gallium, germanium, antimony, bismuth, and plutonium do it too. It depends on how the molecules come together. Water's shape causes it to form a hexagonal lattice.


I looked it up too, and there are five confirmed and two possible. I don't have the list in front of me but 5-7 out of millions isn't much, but yes, I was wrong to say one. I also know the chemistry as to how it works, I was asking why it is like that.
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#283 Apr 27 2011 at 7:28 AM Rating: Good
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Ailitardif, Star Breaker wrote:
I also know the chemistry as to how it works, I was asking why it is like that.
"Because".
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#284 Apr 27 2011 at 7:33 AM Rating: Good
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Nilatai wrote:
Ailitardif, Star Breaker wrote:
I also know the chemistry as to how it works, I was asking why it is like that.
"Because".


This I can accept.
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#285 Apr 27 2011 at 7:35 AM Rating: Good
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Ailitardif, Star Breaker wrote:
Sweetums wrote:
Ailitardif, Star Breaker wrote:
This isn't about evolution, but how do you explain water?

In every other substance known to man the solid is more dense than the liquid, but not with water. If this were true with water, then life would not exist. That just happened randomly?

I'm not trying to prove that God is real here, just curious as to what you all think about this.


Nope, it's not the only one that does that. Silicon, gallium, germanium, antimony, bismuth, and plutonium do it too. It depends on how the molecules come together. Water's shape causes it to form a hexagonal lattice.


I looked it up too, and there are five confirmed and two possible. I don't have the list in front of me but 5-7 out of millions isn't much, but yes, I was wrong to say one. I also know the chemistry as to how it works, I was asking why it is like that.
Because water is a polar molecule and the two negative ions want to be attracted to the large positive one while still being as far away from each other as possible, and the ideal way to do that is to be at an angle because there are still other valence electrons the hydrogens want to avoid. This causes it to be a triangular shape, and the easiest way for them to come together is in a hexagonal pattern. You might as well be asking "why so physics?"
It's kind of like why a pile of toothpick triangles is more dense than one made into those really awesome domes you got to make in elementary school.

I might have the positives and negatives mixed up because, **** it Jim, I'm a math major, not a chem major!



Edited, Apr 27th 2011 8:44am by Sweetums
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#286 Apr 27 2011 at 7:47 AM Rating: Decent
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Sweetums wrote:
Ailitardif, Star Breaker wrote:
Sweetums wrote:
Ailitardif, Star Breaker wrote:
This isn't about evolution, but how do you explain water?

In every other substance known to man the solid is more dense than the liquid, but not with water. If this were true with water, then life would not exist. That just happened randomly?

I'm not trying to prove that God is real here, just curious as to what you all think about this.


Nope, it's not the only one that does that. Silicon, gallium, germanium, antimony, bismuth, and plutonium do it too. It depends on how the molecules come together. Water's shape causes it to form a hexagonal lattice.


I looked it up too, and there are five confirmed and two possible. I don't have the list in front of me but 5-7 out of millions isn't much, but yes, I was wrong to say one. I also know the chemistry as to how it works, I was asking why it is like that.
Because water is a polar molecule and the two negative ions want to be attracted to the large positive one while still being as far away from each other as possible, and the ideal way to do that is to be at an angle because there are still other valence electrons the hydrogens want to avoid. This causes it to be a triangular shape, and the easiest way for them to come together is in a hexagonal pattern. You might as well be asking "why so physics?"


This is explaining the chemistry again, I already know the chemistry...maybe I'm asking the question wrong. Doesn't matter because Nilatai already explained it :P

Edit: messed up quote real bad.

Edited, Apr 27th 2011 10:18am by Ailitardif
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#287 Apr 27 2011 at 8:12 AM Rating: Good
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Ailitardif, Star Breaker wrote:
This is explaining the chemistry again, I already know the chemistry...maybe I'm asking the question wrong. Doesn't matter because Nilatai already explained it :P
I'm a helper.


Honestly though it's that simple. Water behaves like water because it is water.
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#288 Apr 27 2011 at 8:20 AM Rating: Good
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Nilatai wrote:
Ailitardif, Star Breaker wrote:
This is explaining the chemistry again, I already know the chemistry...maybe I'm asking the question wrong. Doesn't matter because Nilatai already explained it :P
I'm a helper.


Honestly though it's that simple. Water behaves like water because it is water.


Nice job on this. I put my response inside the quote instead of outside. This happens when posting on a phone.
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#289 Apr 27 2011 at 8:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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Nilatai wrote:
Ailitardif, Star Breaker wrote:
I also know the chemistry as to how it works, I was asking why it is like that.
"Because".
Basically.

It's like asking why anything works or exists, then keep asking why when you get a mechanism of explanation. Once you can't explain it, the answer doesn't boil down to "god" "magick" or "because you touch yourself" it just is because it is.
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#290 Apr 27 2011 at 8:30 AM Rating: Good
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Bardalicious wrote:
Once you can't explain it, the answer doesn't boil down to "god" "magick" or "because you touch yourself" it just is because it is.
You're allowed to say it just is, but they can't?
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#291 Apr 27 2011 at 8:34 AM Rating: Good
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
Bardalicious wrote:
Once you can't explain it, the answer doesn't boil down to "god" "magick" or "because you touch yourself" it just is because it is.
You're allowed to say it just is, but they can't?
There comes a point where you can gain no more information by asking "why?", this is when you get to things like Bard mentioned. Saying "Magic" or "god/gods" may be okay for some people but it does not advance understanding in any way shape or form. That's his point, I think.
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#292 Apr 27 2011 at 8:53 AM Rating: Good
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
Bardalicious wrote:
Once you can't explain it, the answer doesn't boil down to "god" "magick" or "because you touch yourself" it just is because it is.
You're allowed to say it just is, but they can't?
Religion doesn't tend to say it just is, they say it just is because of god.
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#293 Apr 27 2011 at 8:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
You're allowed to say it just is, but they can't?

I think the problem is that eventually Creationists are looking for motive when one doesn't exist. Why do we have a chemical compound that's required for life? There's no motive to it, it's that way because if it wasn't we wouldn't be alive to worry about it. The answer is simply "because" for the reason that there is no motive.

Now if you (general "you") were asking why water acts the way it does on a molecular level then you can get into it. But I think most Creationist arguments boil down to them trying to disavow any random element by working backwards and then declaring that the end result is all too perfect for it to be random.

You can do the same with any occurrence and play the "butterfly effect" game where you take an event, work backwards and claim the events leading up to the internal combustion engine couldn't have been random because it's all too perfect that we have internal combustion engines today.
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#294 Apr 27 2011 at 8:59 AM Rating: Decent
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Nilatai wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
Bardalicious wrote:
Once you can't explain it, the answer doesn't boil down to "god" "magick" or "because you touch yourself" it just is because it is.
You're allowed to say it just is, but they can't?
There comes a point where you can gain no more information by asking "why?", this is when you get to things like Bard mentioned. Saying "Magic" or "god/gods" may be okay for some people but it does not advance understanding in any way shape or form. That's his point, I think.


It may not advance understanding, but it doesn't have to block understanding either. I know it does for some people, but not for me. I know that modern humans and chimps share a common ancestor and I know the Earth is billions of years old. I know this because there is evidence of it. The only difference between you and me is that I don't believe it is random.

I also want to be clear that I do not think you are wrong. Both of our beliefs bring us to the same end point, we just are on differing paths to get there.



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#295 Apr 27 2011 at 9:02 AM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
You're allowed to say it just is, but they can't?

I think the problem is that eventually Creationists are looking for motive when one doesn't exist. Why do we have a chemical compound that's required for life? There's no motive to it, it's that way because if it wasn't we wouldn't be alive to worry about it. The answer is simply "because" for the reason that there is no motive.

Now if you (general "you") were asking why water acts the way it does on a molecular level then you can get into it. But I think most Creationist arguments boil down to them trying to disavow any random element by working backwards and then declaring that the end result is all too perfect for it to be random.

You can do the same with any occurrence and play the "butterfly effect" game where you take an event, work backwards and claim the events leading up to the internal combustion engine couldn't have been random because it's all too perfect that we have internal combustion engines today.


The internal combustion engine is far from perfect, god had nothing to do with that :P
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#296 Apr 27 2011 at 9:03 AM Rating: Good
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Nilatai wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
Bardalicious wrote:
Once you can't explain it, the answer doesn't boil down to "god" "magick" or "because you touch yourself" it just is because it is.
You're allowed to say it just is, but they can't?
There comes a point where you can gain no more information by asking "why?", this is when you get to things like Bard mentioned. Saying "Magic" or "god/gods" may be okay for some people but it does not advance understanding in any way shape or form. That's his point, I think.
When you get to a point that you can no longer explain something, you have to accept that anything(that can't be proven impossible) is possible. You can say something is less likely, but you can't completely rule it out. Unless you want be as retarded as them.
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#297 Apr 27 2011 at 9:03 AM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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Ailitardif, Star Breaker wrote:
The only difference between you and me is that I don't believe it is random.
It's not random. There are driving chemical/physical forces behind why we came to be.

Uglysasquatch wrote:
When you get to a point that you can no longer explain something, you have to accept that anything(that can't be proven impossible) is possible.
Or better yet, say "we as a society don't know this answer yet" and continue researching.



Edited, Apr 27th 2011 10:04am by bsphil
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#298 Apr 27 2011 at 9:04 AM Rating: Good
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Ailitardif, Star Breaker wrote:
The internal combustion engine is far from perfect, god had nothing to do with that :P
So because it isn't perfect, God wasn't involved? Awesome, now we know there is no God period.
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#299 Apr 27 2011 at 9:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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Ailitardif, Star Breaker wrote:
The internal combustion engine is far from perfect

So is the human body.
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#300 Apr 27 2011 at 9:09 AM Rating: Decent
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
Ailitardif, Star Breaker wrote:
The internal combustion engine is far from perfect, god had nothing to do with that :P
So because it isn't perfect, God wasn't involved? Awesome, now we know there is no God period.


But then the lack of perfection becomes perfect and now god is back in :P
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#301 Apr 27 2011 at 9:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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Nilatai wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
Bardalicious wrote:
Once you can't explain it, the answer doesn't boil down to "god" "magick" or "because you touch yourself" it just is because it is.
You're allowed to say it just is, but they can't?
There comes a point where you can gain no more information by asking "why?", this is when you get to things like Bard mentioned. Saying "Magic" or "god/gods" may be okay for some people but it does not advance understanding in any way shape or form. That's his point, I think.


Louis CK wrote:
This is my daughter the other day. She's like:

"Papa, why can't we go outside?"
"Well, 'cause it's raining."
"Why?"
"Well, water's coming out of the sky."
"Why?"
"Because it was in a cloud."
"Why?"
"Well....clouds form when there's vapor."
"Why?"
"...I don't know. I don't know any more things. Those are all the things I know."
"Why?"
"'Cause I'm stupid, okay, I'm stupid."
"Why?"
"Well because I didn't pay attention in school, okay? I went to school, but I didn't listen in class."
"Why?"
"'Cause I was high all the time, okay? I smoked too much pot."
"Why?"
"'Cause my parents gave me no guidance, okay? They didn't give a sh*t."
"Why?"
"'Cause they @#%^ed in the back of the car and had me, and they resented me for taking their youth."
"Why?"
"Because they had bad morals, they had no compass."
"Why?"
"Because they had sh*tty parents. It just keeps going like that."
"Why?"
"Because @#%^ it, we're alone in the universe. Nobody gives a sh*t about us."


I'm gonna stop there to be polite to you for a second. But this goes on for hours and hours, and it gets so weird and abstract it's like:

"Why?"
"Well, because some things are, and some things are not."
"Why?"
"Well, because things that are not can't be."
"Why?"
"Well, because nothing wouldn't be! You can't have @#%^ing nothing isn't, everything is!
"Why?"
"Ah @#%^ you, eat your french fries you little sh*t."



Edited, Apr 27th 2011 11:14am by Eske
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