Forum Settings
       
Reply To Thread

Atheism or agnosticism?Follow

#252 May 01 2011 at 5:50 PM Rating: Good
Drunken English Bastard
*****
15,246 posts
Almalieque wrote:
Well that's what happens when you base your argument on personal emotions.

Well, it really isn't "cross-thread" since your comment wasn't relevant to the actual topic, but just a random comment towards me.
Kind of cross thread as the comment wasn't in this one. Wasn't basing anything on anything. I was expressing what I expected your argument to be, based upon your views on other crap. Can't see it being that far off, but that's neither here nor there.
____________________________
My Movember page
Solrain wrote:
WARs can use semi-colons however we want. I once killed a guy with a semi-colon.

LordFaramir wrote:
ODESNT MATTER CAUSE I HAVE ALCHOLOL IN MY VEINGS BETCH ;3
#253Almalieque, Posted: May 01 2011 at 6:18 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Well that's definitely a fallacy on your logical thinking.
#254 May 01 2011 at 7:00 PM Rating: Good
****
5,684 posts
this thread is so @#%^ing gay.
____________________________
Almalieque wrote:
I admit that I was wrong

God bless Lili St. Cyr
#255 May 01 2011 at 7:16 PM Rating: Excellent
Drunken English Bastard
*****
15,246 posts
Almalieque wrote:
Well that's definitely a fallacy on your logical thinking.

Anyways, as I'm sure you're at least slightly interested, my argument against abortion has nothing to do with the murder of innocent children. My argument is based on the belief that the responsibility of a child should be predetermined with exceptions on a case by case scenario. In other words, a woman can't claim that "It's my body, you can't tell me what to do, I'm having the abortion", then 5 minutes later change her mind and tell the baby's daddy that he has to support the child. If it's HER body and she want's TOTAL control, then she should also deal with the responsibility of the freedom to make that decision either way.

Either 1 of the 2 things should happen IMO.

1) Give women total freedom and responsibility for children, defaulting men the opportunity to support if desired.

0r

2) Make both men and women equally responsible, only allowing abortions on a case by case scenario.

Since option 1 is totally stupid, as it'll probably increase the number of dead-beat dads, I'll go with option 2.

I'm open to other solutions, but that's the only two I can think of.
How about, leave things how they are? It is a woman's right to choose what happens in her body. While I do not think that people should use abortions as birth control, setting up a system in which a woman would/could have to carry to term an unwanted child is horrendous to say the least.

____________________________
My Movember page
Solrain wrote:
WARs can use semi-colons however we want. I once killed a guy with a semi-colon.

LordFaramir wrote:
ODESNT MATTER CAUSE I HAVE ALCHOLOL IN MY VEINGS BETCH ;3
#256Almalieque, Posted: May 01 2011 at 7:30 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) And forcing a guy to support an unwanted child isn't horrendous? How are you going to tell me that it's "My body and I can do whatever I want" without any concern of me, but then want me to support you. It's your choice to keep the baby, so YOU support YOUR decision. YOU made it. Why should a man have to be responsible if the woman doesn't have to be?
#257 May 01 2011 at 7:46 PM Rating: Excellent
*****
16,957 posts
Almalieque wrote:
It's either that or make both women and men responsible. Giving one an opportunity to "abort" responsibility while forcing the other to uphold responsibility is not right.
Exactly.

Are you saying women should just be forced to have babies so that men can say they are treated fairly? @#%^ing retarded.


The more rational idea would be for couples to decide this sh*t on their own, not be forced into anything from a 3rd party (for instance, child support payments).
____________________________
MyAnimeList FFXIV Krystal Spoonless
#258 May 01 2011 at 7:54 PM Rating: Excellent
Drunken English Bastard
*****
15,246 posts
Almalieque wrote:
And forcing a guy to support an unwanted child isn't horrendous? How are you going to tell me that it's "My body and I can do whatever I want" without any concern of me, but then want me to support you. It's your choice to keep the baby, so YOU support YOUR decision. YOU made it. Why should a man have to be responsible if the woman doesn't have to be?
If you don't want the kid, wrap your dick. Simple, really. Or, y'know, only have sex with someone you know, trust and have come to an agreement about contraception with.

Almalieque wrote:
For a group of people who is always fighting for "rights" and "equality", I would imagine that you would support men having the same opportunities as women.
Babble.

Almalieque wrote:
It's either that or make both women and men responsible. Giving one an opportunity to "abort" responsibility while forcing the other to uphold responsibility is not right.
As far as I am aware, you don't have to pay child support unless you were once married, correct? If you're going to have unprotected sex with some girl who you think is low enough to carry a child to term to gain extra income that's on you.
____________________________
My Movember page
Solrain wrote:
WARs can use semi-colons however we want. I once killed a guy with a semi-colon.

LordFaramir wrote:
ODESNT MATTER CAUSE I HAVE ALCHOLOL IN MY VEINGS BETCH ;3
#259Almalieque, Posted: May 01 2011 at 8:13 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Exactly..
#260 May 01 2011 at 8:15 PM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
***
2,405 posts
Nilatai wrote:
As far as I am aware, you don't have to pay child support unless you were once married, correct?

You are confusing Child Support with Alimony
____________________________
Dandruffshampoo wrote:
Curses, beaten by Professor stupidopo-opo.
Annabella, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
Stupidmonkey is more organized than a bag of raccoons.
#261 May 01 2011 at 8:21 PM Rating: Excellent
Drunken English Bastard
*****
15,246 posts
Almalieque wrote:
Nilatai wrote:
If you don't want the kid, wrap your dick. Simple, really. Or, y'know, only have sex with someone you know, trust and have come to an agreement about contraception with.


Exactly. So, there really isn't any real excuse for an abortion except for the occasions of rape and or failed contraceptives.
Why would there need to be an excuse for abortion? It's legal, and it should stay legal. I said I'm against it as a form of contraception, but I'll be damned if I see laws put in place that limit the access to abortion for any woman, for any circumstances beyond those that are currently in place.

Almalieque wrote:
Nilatai wrote:
As far as I am aware, you don't have to pay child support unless you were once married, correct?


I don't think marriage has anything to do with child support.
Probably not. Irrelevant to the discussion on abortion in any case.


Almalieque wrote:
Nilatai wrote:
If you're going to have unprotected sex with some girl who you think is low enough to carry a child to term to gain extra income that's on you.


Exactly..
Exactly. So the guy shouldn't have any right to demand she get an abortion if she doesn't want one. Equally, the guy shouldn't have any right to demand she carry the child full term. Her body, her choice. Sorry, but the woman's rights trump those of the foetus. After 24 weeks, that's a different matter.
____________________________
My Movember page
Solrain wrote:
WARs can use semi-colons however we want. I once killed a guy with a semi-colon.

LordFaramir wrote:
ODESNT MATTER CAUSE I HAVE ALCHOLOL IN MY VEINGS BETCH ;3
#262 May 01 2011 at 8:22 PM Rating: Good
Drunken English Bastard
*****
15,246 posts
Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
Nilatai wrote:
As far as I am aware, you don't have to pay child support unless you were once married, correct?

You are confusing Child Support with Alimony
That's the badger, my mistake. UK time and all that.
____________________________
My Movember page
Solrain wrote:
WARs can use semi-colons however we want. I once killed a guy with a semi-colon.

LordFaramir wrote:
ODESNT MATTER CAUSE I HAVE ALCHOLOL IN MY VEINGS BETCH ;3
#263Almalieque, Posted: May 01 2011 at 8:35 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) As long as the man is completely out of the equation, i.e. no child support. It's your body, your choice, so you deal with the consequences that you chose. Don't drag anyone else along. If you can't financially afford the child, then you shouldn't get pregnant and or have the child.
#264 May 01 2011 at 8:50 PM Rating: Good
Drunken English Bastard
*****
15,246 posts
Almalieque wrote:
Excuse, reason or rational. I don't care for what word you use. If two people openly have sex with no protection, you can't (or at least shouldn't) mandate one person to be responsible while allowing the other the opportunity to be responsible. Either allow the couple to make their own decision, as Kirby mentioned, or mandate equal responsibility. Any other solution is hypocritical. Unless you are able to present another solution.
Where did I say the couple couldn't make their own decision?


Almalieque wrote:
Wait? So, first you accuse my argument (without even knowing it) as based on emotions, then when I tell you my argument (which isn't based on emotions) you say it's "irrelevant"? WRONG! That's my argument. A man should be held to the same level of responsibility as the woman. If she is able to abort the child, then the man shouldn't be forced to pay child support. If the woman is forced to carry out births, then the man should be forced to pay child support. That "irrelevant" crap isn't going to work here. It is the entire argument.
So, your position is that if a woman has the right to choose, the man should have the right to choose whether or not he should have to support the child? I can't possibly see how that could be exploited in any way.

Regardless, forcing a woman to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term, is not acceptable. Or at least, should not be acceptable.

Almalieque wrote:
Nilatai wrote:
Exactly. So the guy shouldn't have any right to demand she get an abortion if she doesn't want one. Equally, the guy shouldn't have any right to demand she carry the child full term. Her body, her choice. Sorry, but the woman's rights trump those of the foetus. After 24 weeks, that's a different matter.


As long as the man is completely out of the equation, i.e. no child support. It's your body, your choice, so you deal with the consequences that you chose. Don't drag anyone else along. If you can't financially afford the child, then you shouldn't get pregnant and or have the child.
No. Wrong. There should be no stipulations on the man's side concerning a woman's right to get an abortion.

While I agree people shouldn't have children they can't afford, this is in no way enforceable. Again, this is irrelevant to whether a woman should have the right to an abortion or not.
____________________________
My Movember page
Solrain wrote:
WARs can use semi-colons however we want. I once killed a guy with a semi-colon.

LordFaramir wrote:
ODESNT MATTER CAUSE I HAVE ALCHOLOL IN MY VEINGS BETCH ;3
#265 May 01 2011 at 9:15 PM Rating: Excellent
Cervixhouse-Five
******
30,625 posts
Almalieque wrote:
And forcing a guy to support an unwanted child isn't horrendous? How are you going to tell me that it's "My body and I can do whatever I want" without any concern of me, but then want me to support you. It's your choice to keep the baby, so YOU support YOUR decision. YOU made it. Why should a man have to be responsible if the woman doesn't have to be?


First, I agree with your idea. It sucks. It's not an easy thing, and it is sort of unfair for the guy.

Second, your second sentence is idiotic. You are not being forced to support the woman. They call it child support for a reason. I agree with you that it's unfair, but taking away child support only hurts the kid. You can't punish the kid to get back at the woman.

Third, and another example of you not using logic in the least and only relying on emotion, how on earth do you figure that the woman doesn't have to be responsible...?


Almalieque wrote:
For a group of people who is always fighting for "rights" and "equality", I would imagine that you would support men having the same opportunities as women.


I agree. They need to figure out a way to let the man carry the kid for nine months. It certainly isn't fair that they aren't allowed to participate in that right at all.

Almalieque wrote:
It's either that or make both women and men responsible. Giving one an opportunity to "abort" responsibility while forcing the other to uphold responsibility is not right.


And yet another example of you being an idiot. Abortion is taking responsibility, and one that a man doesn't really have to take part in. (Note: I understand that some men would be hurt and feel remorse over an abortion, that's why I said they don't have to take part in it.) And if the woman has the kid, she has to be more responsible than the man. In either case, the woman shoulders the burden of the majority of responsibility.
____________________________
Kurt Vonnegut (1922-2007) wrote:
I am eternally grateful.. for my knack of finding in great books, some of them very funny books, reason enough to feel honored to be alive, no matter what else might be going on.
#266Almalieque, Posted: May 01 2011 at 9:18 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) It's not irrelevant, because you're arguing off of emotion and I'm not. I'm not arguing if a woman should have a right to have an abortion or not. My argument is strictly based off of equal responsibilities. If you believe a woman should have the right to have an abortion, fine, just don't force a man to be responsible for raising a child if he doesn't want to.
#267Almalieque, Posted: May 01 2011 at 9:33 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Read above in response to the "responsibility" comment. If you get pregnant from unprotected voluntarily sex, then you are/were irresponsible. As I said, if you want to give the woman the full decision to have a child, since she is the one having the child, then don't force the man to support her decision.
#268 May 01 2011 at 9:39 PM Rating: Excellent
The moment you have sex you take full responsibility for any consequences that fall out of that. The situation is what it is, it's a conscious decision.
____________________________
01001001 00100000 01001100 01001001 01001011 01000101 00100000 01000011 01000001 01001011 01000101
You'll always be stupid, you'll just be stupid with more information in your brain
Forum FAQ
#269 May 01 2011 at 9:43 PM Rating: Good
Drunken English Bastard
*****
15,246 posts
Almalieque wrote:
I gave you two options (one including couples making their own decisions), you responded with "How about, leave things how they are?". The way things are now excludes couples making their own decisions.
So, as things are, couples can't make the decision together? Gotcha.


Almalieque wrote:
This is completely based off of emotion with nothing to support it other than "I don't like it". Heaven forbid a woman giving birth. The horror! All society as we know it will end... oh wait...
Knowing when someone violates a person's rights is not based on emotion.



Almalieque wrote:
EXACTLY!!!

That's the problem, stipulations exist and that's what I'm arguing against. If a woman decides to keep the child, then the man is forced to support the child. If she decides to abort the child, then the man is not able to support the child. The current laws for a man is completely dependent on what a woman decides to do and I'm arguing that it shouldn't. Either both are mandated to be support the child or give them both equally decisions, where the man is totally independent of what the woman decides to do with her and "her body".
You're not even arguing for or against abortion here. You're arguing against men having to pay for their kids. Again, her body her choice.



Almalieque wrote:
It's not irrelevant, because you're arguing off of emotion and I'm not. I'm not arguing if a woman should have a right to have an abortion or not. My argument is strictly based off of equal responsibilities. If you believe a woman should have the right to have an abortion, fine, just don't force a man to be responsible for raising a child if he doesn't want to.

You're trying to make this on personal emotions. I thought you wanted an argument not based on emotions? how ironic.
It's still a dumb argument. See Belkira's post.
____________________________
My Movember page
Solrain wrote:
WARs can use semi-colons however we want. I once killed a guy with a semi-colon.

LordFaramir wrote:
ODESNT MATTER CAUSE I HAVE ALCHOLOL IN MY VEINGS BETCH ;3
#270Almalieque, Posted: May 01 2011 at 10:26 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Your face is a dumb argument.
#271 May 01 2011 at 10:35 PM Rating: Excellent
Drunken English Bastard
*****
15,246 posts
Almalieque wrote:
Exactly.. Currently there are laws set in place to force men to pay child support. Under the scenario that I presented, the man and the woman are completely independent of each other and are free to make their own choices with no laws interfering.
No, couples today decide whether they're going to keep a child. Usually they will come to an agreement. If they don't, sorry, it's the woman's prerogative as to what happens in her body. If she wants to keep it, guy needs to man up and take responsibility for what his dick did.



Almalieque wrote:
The belief that it is violating a right is based on emotion. I can go around and call everything a "right" and doing so doesn't take away the fact that it is emotional based. It's completely based on "I don't like it". What if I argued " You're taking away the right of the baby/fetus to live/grow", wouldn't that not be an emotional argument? How is that any different? Your only counter would be "that baby/fetus" doesn't have a right", which I could counter by saying the same thing in reverse "that isn't a right for the woman". It's all based on emotions.

You FEEL that is wrong, so therefore you're against it. You haven't provided anything other than it shouldn't happen because you think it's wrong. EMOTION...
No, not really. It's recognising that as a sentient being the woman has the right to decide what happens to her body. It's that simple. I could argue that the woman is more useful to society not pregnant, assuming she has a job. Or again, if she has a job she's more useful to the economy if she doesn't have to take maternity leave. Those would be douchy positions to take, though.



Almalieque wrote:
Nope. You just don't want to admit that I have a point. This is about abortion. My argument is that both members should be held equally accountable. So, whatever laws that there are for men in regards to supporting a child, they should match the laws for women. That, my friend, includes abortion.
You don't have a point though. You're saying women shouldn't be allowed to terminate a pregnancy unless men have the right to sever all connection to the child. That's a stupid position to take.

____________________________
My Movember page
Solrain wrote:
WARs can use semi-colons however we want. I once killed a guy with a semi-colon.

LordFaramir wrote:
ODESNT MATTER CAUSE I HAVE ALCHOLOL IN MY VEINGS BETCH ;3
#272 May 01 2011 at 10:37 PM Rating: Excellent
Cervixhouse-Five
******
30,625 posts
Almalieque wrote:
I see what you mean, but I didn't actually mean it that way when I wrote it, but I do see it either way. By helping the child, you are helping the parent.


No. You're supporting the child. If by "helping the parent" you mean "not forcing the woman to pay for absolutely everything when you were just as irresponsible in creating an unwanted child" then sure. It "helps the parent."

Almalieque wrote:
What emotion? There's absolutely no emotion attached.. We already discussed that the only times abortion should ever be an issue is during scenarios such as rape or failed contraceptives. That only leaves unprotected voluntary sex. So, if you fall in that category YOU ARE OR WERE BEING IRRESPONSIBLE.


The whole, "YOU made the decision YOU support it it's YOUR problem" sh*t. You do realize that it's not all the woman's fault if she gets pregnant... right? You also realize that women can get pregnant even while trying to have responsible sex, right?

Almalieque wrote:
Or just not get pregnant, which is a whole lot easier to accomplish.


Sure. But mistakes happen. If you're this up in arms about it (and I'm about sick of you pretending it's all the woman's fault she got pregnant) then, as a man, don't have sex unless you want a kid. Ever.

Almalieque wrote:
Read above in response to the "responsibility" comment. If you get pregnant from unprotected voluntarily sex, then you are/were irresponsible. As I said, if you want to give the woman the full decision to have a child, since she is the one having the child, then don't force the man to support her decision.


Once again, you're promoting harm to a child to punish a woman. I'm starting to think you're almost as bad as Varus. You seem to dislike women a lot.
____________________________
Kurt Vonnegut (1922-2007) wrote:
I am eternally grateful.. for my knack of finding in great books, some of them very funny books, reason enough to feel honored to be alive, no matter what else might be going on.
#273Almalieque, Posted: May 02 2011 at 6:13 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I argued the only two solutions where the responsibility is equal. One allows women to have abortions in any case and the other only by a case by case. I concluded that the solution that allows any abortion and the decision to be a father would be worse for the child. As a result, the other solution is the only reasonable solution remaining, which only allow abortions on a case by case scenario.
#274 May 02 2011 at 6:24 AM Rating: Excellent
Drunken English Bastard
*****
15,246 posts
Almalieque wrote:
The couple doesn't decide anything, the woman does and the man deals with her decision.

And the woman can't "woman" up and take responsibility for what her p*ssy did? If you're fine with being a hypocrite, just say so and we can move on. Else, stop pretending that the woman is completely innocent. She is as equally responsible for the pregnancy as the man.

You can't force responsibility unto the man while allowing the woman to do whatever she pleases without being a hypocrite. So which one is it?
Why don't you understand that having an abortion is taking responsibility? Irresponsible people would choose to give birth to a child they don't want/can't afford.


Almalieque wrote:
Those would indeed be retarded positions as birth is what keeps society growing. I guess you really don't understand that the "Penis goes in the Vagina"?! Pregnancy is part of life and a woman is NOT more useful to society not pregnant than pregnant. HTF do you expect more life to happen? Test tubes?
Sure, that's what I was getting at. How astute of you...

Almalieque wrote:
So, this is nothing but an emotional argument. Pregnancy is a natural, normal and "moral" state of life, if it weren't, then you could have something to argue. Now I see why you're for homosexuality, you think being pregnant hurts society. Wow...
Again, that's exactly what I was saying, I couldn't have meant anything else. Thanks for clarifying for everyone.

Almalieque wrote:
Whether you accept it or not, there is life in a pregnant woman and all you're doing is choosing sides. I could easily make the same types of arguments for the fetus/child, hence making your argument completely emotional and weak to say the least.
As far as I'm concerned it's not alive until it is self sufficient. Hell, until 12 weeks there's a significant risk the body will reject it. No, you can't. A living person has more rights than a foetus.

Nilatai wrote:
You don't have a point though. You're saying women shouldn't be allowed to terminate a pregnancy unless men have the right to sever all connection to the child. That's a stupid position to take.


Almalieque wrote:
I argued the only two solutions where the responsibility is equal. One allows women to have abortions in any case and the other only by a case by case. I concluded that the solution that allows any abortion and the decision to be a father would be worse for the child. As a result, the other solution is the only reasonable solution remaining, which only allow abortions on a case by case scenario.
The responsibility isn't equal though. Not until men can carry children.

Almalieque wrote:
It doesn't make sense to you because you're being emotional. You can't segregate abortion from the concept of raising a child. They are together.
Of course I can, they're two separate issues.
____________________________
My Movember page
Solrain wrote:
WARs can use semi-colons however we want. I once killed a guy with a semi-colon.

LordFaramir wrote:
ODESNT MATTER CAUSE I HAVE ALCHOLOL IN MY VEINGS BETCH ;3
#275Almalieque, Posted: May 02 2011 at 6:34 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Not at all. You're just really really confused.
#276 May 02 2011 at 6:42 AM Rating: Excellent
Gurue
*****
16,229 posts
I have had 2 children while on the pill. Birth control isn't foolproof.

Also, if you've never had to face the decision of having an abortion, you don't know sh*t. It's not an easy decision to make. Women aren't deciding to have them the same way they decide to change hair color. FFS.
#277 May 02 2011 at 6:44 AM Rating: Excellent
***
2,069 posts
I bet the abortion rate of gay couples is pretty low. Good thing we won't let them get married
____________________________
http://www.marriageissogay.com/

Song of the day:
May 26, 2011 -- Transplants
#278 May 02 2011 at 6:45 AM Rating: Good
Drunken English Bastard
*****
15,246 posts
Ailitardif wrote:
I bet the abortion rate of gay couples is pretty low. Good thing we won't let them get married
I read somewhere it's 0%, I'm not 100% on that though. Good thing we have decided as a society that penis goes in vagina, eh?
____________________________
My Movember page
Solrain wrote:
WARs can use semi-colons however we want. I once killed a guy with a semi-colon.

LordFaramir wrote:
ODESNT MATTER CAUSE I HAVE ALCHOLOL IN MY VEINGS BETCH ;3
#279 May 02 2011 at 6:52 AM Rating: Good
***
2,069 posts
Nilatai wrote:
Ailitardif wrote:
I bet the abortion rate of gay couples is pretty low. Good thing we won't let them get married
I read somewhere it's 0%, I'm not 100% on that though. Good thing we have decided as a society that penis goes in vagina, eh?

Society has sh*t for brains.

____________________________
http://www.marriageissogay.com/

Song of the day:
May 26, 2011 -- Transplants
#280 May 02 2011 at 6:55 AM Rating: Default
Avatar
****
8,799 posts
Nilatai wrote:
Why don't you understand that having an abortion is taking responsibility? Irresponsible people would choose to give birth to a child they don't want/can't afford.


I'm not arguing that it isn't in any case, I'm arguing that abortion isn't the beginning of the decision process. Choosing to have sex is the beginning. If you're having voluntarily unprotected sex, you are being irresponsible (if you don't want a child). That's what I said. You can argue all you want otherwise, but you have no counter to that.

You are bypassing the first steps (i.e. sex) and jumping straight to abortion.

Nilatai wrote:
As far as I'm concerned it's not alive until it is self sufficient. Hell, until 12 weeks there's a significant risk the body will reject it. No, you can't. A living person has more rights than a foetus.


So a person on life support isn't alive?

I'm not going into an emotional debate with you right now, but I assure you that I or someone else could. Your entire argument is based on your feelings.

Nilatai wrote:

The responsibility isn't equal though. Not until men can carry children.


The responsibility is the same, the actions taken aren't. That's why a father doesn't get as much time off from work as a woman for maternity/paternity leave. They are both taking responsibility for the child, just in a different way. Obviously the woman probably can't work as effective as the man during certain stages of the process.

Nilatai wrote:
Of course I can, they're two separate issues.


Not if you know where babies come from they aren't. If babies came from the stork, then yes, they would be different issues. That isn't the case ( I'll assume that you knew that already). Your responsibility of raising a child, stems from you actually having a child.
____________________________
Demea wrote:
Almalieque wrote:

I'm biased against statistics
#281 May 02 2011 at 7:01 AM Rating: Excellent
***
2,069 posts
You're wrong about the medical leave for fathers. Federal law allows both parents 12 weeks unpaid leave.
____________________________
http://www.marriageissogay.com/

Song of the day:
May 26, 2011 -- Transplants
#282Almalieque, Posted: May 02 2011 at 7:03 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I know, phew, good thing pregnancies only occur with married couples.
#283 May 02 2011 at 7:03 AM Rating: Good
Drunken English Bastard
*****
15,246 posts
Almalieque wrote:
I'm not arguing that it isn't in any case, I'm arguing that abortion isn't the beginning of the decision process. Choosing to have sex is the beginning. If you're having voluntarily unprotected sex, you are being irresponsible (if you don't want a child). That's what I said. You can argue all you want otherwise, but you have no counter to that.

You are bypassing the first steps (i.e. sex) and jumping straight to abortion.
Haha. You're an idiot. I said in one of my first posts that abortion shouldn't be used as a method of contraception, in my opinion. I also said I wouldn't support any legislation that makes that illegal, though. My personal preferences do not impact on what is the right decision.



Almalieque wrote:
So a person on life support isn't alive?

I'm not going into an emotional debate with you right now, but I assure you that I or someone else could. Your entire argument is based on your feelings.
Not really, no.



Almalieque wrote:
The responsibility is the same, the actions taken aren't. That's why a father doesn't get as much time off from work as a woman for maternity/paternity leave. They are both taking responsibility for the child, just in a different way. Obviously the woman probably can't work as effective as the man during certain stages of the process.
So, it's okay for them to have different responsibilities, right? Good, I'm glad that's settled.


Almalieque wrote:
Not if you know where babies come from they aren't. If babies came from the stork, then yes, they would be different issues. That isn't the case ( I'll assume that you knew that already). Your responsibility of raising a child, stems from you actually having a child.
Well done? Isn't abortion the exact opposite of having a child?
____________________________
My Movember page
Solrain wrote:
WARs can use semi-colons however we want. I once killed a guy with a semi-colon.

LordFaramir wrote:
ODESNT MATTER CAUSE I HAVE ALCHOLOL IN MY VEINGS BETCH ;3
#284 May 02 2011 at 7:05 AM Rating: Excellent
Soulless Internet Tiger
******
34,613 posts
Quote:
Your entire argument is based on your feelings.
Its true, it is. The sad part though, is that you don't see that your argument is as well.
____________________________
Donate. One day it could be your family.
Need a hotel at a great rate? More hotels being added weekly.

An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. Victor Hugo

#285 May 02 2011 at 7:09 AM Rating: Default
Avatar
****
8,799 posts
Nilatai wrote:
Haha. You're an idiot. I said in one of my first posts that abortion shouldn't be used as a method of contraception, in my opinion. I also said I wouldn't support any legislation that makes that illegal, though. My personal preferences do not impact on what is the right decision.


I'll give you credit there, but you haven't provided any reason why it's the "right" decision, other than you believe so.

Nilatai wrote:
So, it's okay for them to have different responsibilities, right? Good, I'm glad that's settled.


The responsibility is the same, the actions taken aren't.

Nilatai wrote:
Well done? Isn't abortion the exact opposite of having a child?


Err. how can you have an abortion with no child/fetus?

____________________________
Demea wrote:
Almalieque wrote:

I'm biased against statistics
#286 May 02 2011 at 7:15 AM Rating: Default
Avatar
****
8,799 posts
Uglysasquatch wrote:
Quote:
Your entire argument is based on your feelings.
Its true, it is. The sad part though, is that you don't see that your argument is as well.


Only in the trivial sense..
____________________________
Demea wrote:
Almalieque wrote:

I'm biased against statistics
#287 May 02 2011 at 7:17 AM Rating: Excellent
****
9,251 posts
Quote:
Err. how can you have an abortion with no child/fetus?


You can have an abortion without having a child. A smattering of cells isn't sentient or intelligent, so, first trimester abortions are fine.
____________________________
Master Meleagant Driftwood of Stromm, Warrior of the 69th level(EQ)
Rhyys, Human Warrior of 67th level(WoW)

The World Is Not A Cold Dead Place.
Alan Watts wrote:
I am omnipotent insofar as I am the Universe, but I am not an omnipotent in the role of Alan Watts, only cunning


Eske wrote:
I've always read Driftwood as the straight man in varus' double act. It helps if you read all of his posts in the voice of Droopy Dog.
#288 May 02 2011 at 7:19 AM Rating: Good
Soulless Internet Tiger
******
34,613 posts
Almalieque wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
Quote:
Your entire argument is based on your feelings.
Its true, it is. The sad part though, is that you don't see that your argument is as well.


Only in the trivial sense..
Sure, whatever you want to think.
____________________________
Donate. One day it could be your family.
Need a hotel at a great rate? More hotels being added weekly.

An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. Victor Hugo

#289 May 02 2011 at 7:20 AM Rating: Decent
****
9,251 posts
Quote:
Your entire argument is based on your feelings.


All arguments are based on feelings, dumbass. If you didn't feel the way you do about a topic, you wouldn't argue your point.
____________________________
Master Meleagant Driftwood of Stromm, Warrior of the 69th level(EQ)
Rhyys, Human Warrior of 67th level(WoW)

The World Is Not A Cold Dead Place.
Alan Watts wrote:
I am omnipotent insofar as I am the Universe, but I am not an omnipotent in the role of Alan Watts, only cunning


Eske wrote:
I've always read Driftwood as the straight man in varus' double act. It helps if you read all of his posts in the voice of Droopy Dog.
#290 May 02 2011 at 7:29 AM Rating: Excellent
It's not hypocritical alma because there is a fundamental difference. The woman carries the baby. That makes it a completely different situation.

As we both agree that the decision to have sex is a decision to accept responsibility for your actions, then at that point the man has made his decision.

You'd be correct if the roles were the same, but they are not. The roles are different so the outcomes and some of the decisions will be different.
____________________________
01001001 00100000 01001100 01001001 01001011 01000101 00100000 01000011 01000001 01001011 01000101
You'll always be stupid, you'll just be stupid with more information in your brain
Forum FAQ
#291 May 02 2011 at 7:29 AM Rating: Good
Soulless Internet Tiger
******
34,613 posts
Driftwood wrote:
All arguments are based on feelings, dumbass. If you didn't feel the way you do about a topic, you wouldn't argue your point.
I'm not in the habit of defending the twit, but way to over generalize.

Edited, May 2nd 2011 10:29am by Uglysasquatch
____________________________
Donate. One day it could be your family.
Need a hotel at a great rate? More hotels being added weekly.

An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. Victor Hugo

#292 May 02 2011 at 7:31 AM Rating: Default
****
9,251 posts
Quote:
I'm not in the habit of defending the twit, but way to over generalize.


Ok, fine, aside from trolls, and arguing known, confirmed facts, all arguments are based on one's feelings.
____________________________
Master Meleagant Driftwood of Stromm, Warrior of the 69th level(EQ)
Rhyys, Human Warrior of 67th level(WoW)

The World Is Not A Cold Dead Place.
Alan Watts wrote:
I am omnipotent insofar as I am the Universe, but I am not an omnipotent in the role of Alan Watts, only cunning


Eske wrote:
I've always read Driftwood as the straight man in varus' double act. It helps if you read all of his posts in the voice of Droopy Dog.
#293 May 02 2011 at 7:32 AM Rating: Excellent
Smiley: oyvey
____________________________
01001001 00100000 01001100 01001001 01001011 01000101 00100000 01000011 01000001 01001011 01000101
You'll always be stupid, you'll just be stupid with more information in your brain
Forum FAQ
#294 May 02 2011 at 8:01 AM Rating: Excellent
Cervixhouse-Five
******
30,625 posts
Almalieque wrote:
Yes. I help support single mothers all of the time, by giving them money to pay for finances. It's slightly different as it isn't child support, but the money is often used for the child. In any case, it helps the mother.


Yeah, the reason you have to do that? Deadbeat dads.

Almalieque wrote:
It's either or, pick one. Either share the "responsibility" of raising the child or have total say so on the matter. You can't pick and choose whatever suits you at the time.


First, there will never be "equal responsibility." No matter how you try to spin it, a man will never be "equally responsible" for a child (assuming that the mother is in the picture at all, of course. But if she isn't, then the man gets child support).

Second, apparently we can "pick and choose," because that's how the law is now. Shore do hate it for you.

Almalieque wrote:
If you want the total say so on the birth of the child, then that means the man should be totally excluded from YOUR decision. If you want to mandate the man to be part of the child's life (which you should), then you also should be mandated to be part of the child's life.


I have absolutely no idea what this means.

Almalieque wrote:
How am I pretending it's the woman's fault when my entire argument is "Equality of responsibility", that doesn't even make sense. I provided two scenarios where the "responsibility" is equal. No where have I pointed the finger at the woman. I simply said that if you want total control, fine, leave the man out of it then. If you want to mandate the man to support the child, then you should be mandated as well. It's totally equal, so I'm not sure what you're talking about.


All you're doing is pointing the finger at the woman! Claiming that she's irresponsible over and over. And no, neither of your "scenarios" provided have "equal responsibility." That's impossible to do when talking about the birth of a kid. And all this "mandated" crap, what the hell are you talking about? Are you seriously equating a man having to pay some money to support a kid to nine months of incubating a child then raising it...? Seriously??

Almalieque wrote:
Not at all. You're just really really confused.


No, I think your emotions are just running away with you and you're too blind to see it.

Almalieque wrote:
I mean, instead of saying "Both men and women should be more responsible when having sex and take ownership to what may result", you're arguing "You can't force a woman to have a baby and by doing so you're hurting the child and the woman." We all know that ish happens, but why are you arguing in reaction as opposed to prevention?


Why am I "arguing reaction as opposed to prevention?" Because we're talking about abortion. Have I said anywhere in this thread that abortion is the only solution to possible pregnancy, and no woman should ever be on the pill, no man should ever use a condom? Why are you pulling sh*t into this arbitrarily and pretending I've argued something I haven't?

Almalieque wrote:
Side note: I hear what women say about each other, I probably respect women more than the average woman does.


Trust me. From what you've posted in this thread, you're dead wrong.
____________________________
Kurt Vonnegut (1922-2007) wrote:
I am eternally grateful.. for my knack of finding in great books, some of them very funny books, reason enough to feel honored to be alive, no matter what else might be going on.
#295Almalieque, Posted: May 02 2011 at 8:02 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Nope, it's hypocritical. The woman knew just as much as the man what the potential outcomes were before having sex. If the man doesn't want to pay or financially support for a child, then he shouldn't be having sex or at least unprotected sex. If the woman doesn't want go through a pregnancy and/or support a child, then she shouldn't be having sex or at least unprotected sex.
#296 May 02 2011 at 8:08 AM Rating: Good
Soulless Internet Tiger
******
34,613 posts
I keep seeing you say "unprotected sex". So you're ok with it when the protection fails?
____________________________
Donate. One day it could be your family.
Need a hotel at a great rate? More hotels being added weekly.

An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. Victor Hugo

#297 May 02 2011 at 8:08 AM Rating: Good
Drunken English Bastard
*****
15,246 posts
Almalieque wrote:
I'll give you credit there, but you haven't provided any reason why it's the "right" decision, other than you believe so.
Because forcing a woman to give birth to an unwanted child is tantamount to slavery?



Almalieque wrote:
The responsibility is the same, the actions taken aren't.
Then what's your point?



Almalieque wrote:
Err. how can you have an abortion with no child/fetus?

Well if you have a child, it's generally born. A foetus is not a child, so if you have an abortion, you don't have a child. See?

Edited, May 2nd 2011 10:09am by Nilatai
____________________________
My Movember page
Solrain wrote:
WARs can use semi-colons however we want. I once killed a guy with a semi-colon.

LordFaramir wrote:
ODESNT MATTER CAUSE I HAVE ALCHOLOL IN MY VEINGS BETCH ;3
#298 May 02 2011 at 8:10 AM Rating: Excellent
***
2,069 posts
Havinng a child is not the same as being pregnant. You are confusing these.

This is by far the dumbest argument you've ever put forth. Can't wait to see what's next.
____________________________
http://www.marriageissogay.com/

Song of the day:
May 26, 2011 -- Transplants
#299 May 02 2011 at 8:11 AM Rating: Good
Soulless Internet Tiger
******
34,613 posts
Ailitardif wrote:
This is by far the dumbest argument you've ever put forth.
Not even close.
____________________________
Donate. One day it could be your family.
Need a hotel at a great rate? More hotels being added weekly.

An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. Victor Hugo

#300 May 02 2011 at 8:13 AM Rating: Good
Cervixhouse-Five
******
30,625 posts
Uglysasquatch wrote:
I keep seeing you say "unprotected sex". So you're ok with it when the protection fails?


He's already said that failed protection and/or rape are his only exceptions.
____________________________
Kurt Vonnegut (1922-2007) wrote:
I am eternally grateful.. for my knack of finding in great books, some of them very funny books, reason enough to feel honored to be alive, no matter what else might be going on.
#301 May 02 2011 at 8:19 AM Rating: Good
Soulless Internet Tiger
******
34,613 posts
Belkira wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
I keep seeing you say "unprotected sex". So you're ok with it when the protection fails?


He's already said that failed protection and/or rape are his only exceptions.
Ah. Well at least I can understand where he's coming from even if I'm not in agreement with him.
____________________________
Donate. One day it could be your family.
Need a hotel at a great rate? More hotels being added weekly.

An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. Victor Hugo

Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help