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Atheism or agnosticism?Follow

#302 May 02 2011 at 8:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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My only question is why the fUck are we even discussing this?? Pro-lifers will never change their minds. Which is why I say we should send all unwanted children to them to raise.
#303Almalieque, Posted: May 02 2011 at 10:59 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) What do you mean? You mean like supporting single mothers? Yeah, you're simply making false connections that aren't there.
#304 May 02 2011 at 11:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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#305 May 02 2011 at 11:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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Alma, what system exactly are you proposing? Outline it in full, will you? Because, to me it sounds like this:

1)A couple should have to come to a consensus on whether to abort or keep the pregnancy.
2)Whatever the guy wants, should be the outcome of this discussion. In so far that if he doesn't want the kid, he shouldn't have to pay for it. If he wants the kid, the woman should have to carry it full term.
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#306 May 02 2011 at 11:23 AM Rating: Good
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Nilatai wrote:
Alma, what system exactly are you proposing? Outline it in full, will you? Because, to me it sounds like this:

1)A couple should have to come to a consensus on whether to abort or keep the pregnancy.
2)Whatever the guy wants, should be the outcome of this discussion. In so far that if he doesn't want the kid, he shouldn't have to pay for it. If he wants the kid, the woman should have to carry it full term.

This sounds about right.
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#307Almalieque, Posted: May 02 2011 at 11:27 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) So, if no abortion is done, the fetus just stays there and eventually goes away? Riiiiight... Answer me this, why again would anyone have an abortion? Remember, it has nothing to do with children..... Go...
#308Almalieque, Posted: May 02 2011 at 11:33 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) No wonder you all think I'm an idiot.. Really, WTF did you come up with that crap? I know that I'm writing in English. I mean, what do I do? If I repeat myself, you'll just come up with the same stupid interpretation as always and if I quote myself, you'll come up with the same stupid interpretation as always.
#309 May 02 2011 at 11:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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Almalieque wrote:

Nilatai wrote:
Because forcing a woman to give birth to an unwanted child is tantamount to slavery?


No one is forcing the woman to get pregnant, that is a choice of her own. So, no it's not slavery and the comparison is beyond stupid. That's even worse than the comparisons made in the homosexual threads. Any law if established, would prevent her from ending the life of another. Now, if the women were being held against their will and raped constantly, then yes, you would have a point.

This made me laugh because you made those comparisons.

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#310 May 02 2011 at 11:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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Once the guy has to suffer equal consequences naturally (pregnancy changes your body forever, and women often take the brunt of the responsibility of child-rearing even when the father is fully involved), then he'll get an equal say.

And who cares if the justification is "I don't wanna?" Children are difficult to raise even when they're fully planned for, and no child should come into this world when they're not wanted.

Edited, May 2nd 2011 12:38pm by Sweetums
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#311 May 02 2011 at 11:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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Almalieque wrote:
No one is forcing the woman to get pregnant, that is a choice of her own. So, no it's not slavery and the comparison is beyond stupid. That's even worse than the comparisons made in the homosexual threads. Any law if established, would prevent her from ending the life of another. Now, if the women were being held against their will and raped constantly, then yes, you would have a point.
No I'm pretty sure I still have a point. Trapping someone in a situation they don't want to be in is kind of like enslaving them to your will.

Also, no one was forcing you to make the woman pregnant, so shut up and pay for your kids.

Also, you're the one who was making dumb comparisons in the homosexuality based threads.



Almalieque wrote:
The two scenarios that I presented are the only ways to have equal responsibilities, so choose one or admit to being a hypocrite.
Do you know what a false dichotomy is?


Almalieque wrote:
So, if no abortion is done, the fetus just stays there and eventually goes away? Riiiiight... Answer me this, why again would anyone have an abortion? Remember, it has nothing to do with children..... Go...
Yes, Alma, that's exactly what I was saying.

If the foetus never develops enough to the point where it can be born without dying straight away, it isn't a child. It's a foetus. There are important differences. Foetus != child.

Edited, May 2nd 2011 1:46pm by Nilatai
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#312 May 02 2011 at 11:46 AM Rating: Good
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What's a Foetus? Is it like an evil fetus, that's constantly playing an adversarial role to someone?
#313 May 02 2011 at 11:48 AM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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Eske Esquire wrote:
What's a Foetus? Is it like an evil fetus, that's constantly playing an adversarial role to someone?
A British fetus. It's basically the same except everyone pronounces it incorrectly.
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#314 May 02 2011 at 11:49 AM Rating: Good
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Eske Esquire wrote:
What's a Foetus? Is it like an evil fetus, that's constantly playing an adversarial role to someone?
It's how us Brits & commonwealth English speakers spell "fetus". I'm not sure why, seeing as the Latin word was "Fetus". Ah well, habit of a lifetime, I suppose.

bsphil wrote:
Eske Esquire wrote:
What's a Foetus? Is it like an evil fetus, that's constantly playing an adversarial role to someone?
A British fetus. It's basically the same except everyone pronounces it incorrectly.
We pronounce it the same way you guys do. Just with more British accentness. :3

Edited, May 2nd 2011 1:50pm by Nilatai
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#315Almalieque, Posted: May 02 2011 at 12:07 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) So, answer the question. Why would anyone have an abortion? It sounds like your answer is based on the child and not the fetus. If a doctor told a woman, "you're pregnant, but it appears that it will 'die' within 24 hours", would the woman think about having an abortion?
#316 May 02 2011 at 12:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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Almalieque wrote:
First, it can be, you just don't want it to be. Responsibility != the amount of effort/work done.


Then what does responsibility equal...? How are you measuring it, exactly? I only want to know so I can laugh at you.

Almalieque wrote:
Second, that's the whole argument. If a woman wants to have total control of the outcome of the fetus/baby/cells/whatever you want to call it, then fine, leave the guy out of it.


The woman wants to have total control over her body. I think that's more than reasonable. A man shouldn't have any control over her body. Period.

Almalieque wrote:
If a woman wants to have total control of the outcome of the fetus/baby/cells/whatever you want to call it, then fine, leave the guy out of it. If you want to force a man to take care of something that he might not want, then you should be forced to take care of something that you might not want.


As you're so fond of saying, "see above."

Almalieque wrote:
False. I've told you numerous times already that the irresponsibility that I'm referring to is on both people for having unprotected ***, so at this point, you're just making stuff up.


Sure. Except the woman has to be punished in the process. Nooo, you don't dislike women... /rolleyes

Almalieque wrote:
I'm talking about responsibility. Once again, responsibility != the amount of effort/work done.

A single mother of 4 children( of various ages) may have to do way more work than a woman with a husband and one 17 year old child, but that doesn't mean she is being any more responsible.


Again. Let me know what you consider acting responsibly. Because, to me, having an abortion is a responsible decision. As is deciding to have the child and only making the father, who is equally to blame for the issue, pay a fee to support his portion of the mistake. An incredibly small price to pay when considered on the whole.

Almalieque wrote:
Because that's exactly what you're doing to me. My entire argument is on equality of responsibility, which starts before ***. All of your counters deal with a pregnant woman having the "right" to do x,y and z. I'm proposing a solution that is already placing the responsibility BEFORE the woman or the man even decides to have ***, not AFTER the woman realizes that she is pregnant.


No, you're not. You're proposing that a woman be forced to carry a child to term for three quarters of a year if a man wants her to. Proposing something that places responsibility before anyone decides to have *** would be something along the lines of mandatory birth control, mandatory sterilization, or something along those lines. Your "options," which are simplistic to the point of idiocy, only deal with what happens afterward. Nice try, though.

Almalieque wrote:
What do you mean? You mean like supporting single mothers? Yeah, you're simply making false connections that aren't there.


No, like suggesting that a woman should be forced to carry a child she doesn't want and then the child should suffer if the mother can't support it simply because a man has deemed it should be so.



Edited, May 2nd 2011 1:11pm by Belkira
#317 May 02 2011 at 12:13 PM Rating: Good
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Almalieque wrote:
Ailitardif wrote:
Almalieque wrote:

Nilatai wrote:
Because forcing a woman to give birth to an unwanted child is tantamount to slavery?


No one is forcing the woman to get pregnant, that is a choice of her own. So, no it's not slavery and the comparison is beyond stupid. That's even worse than the comparisons made in the homosexual threads. Any law if established, would prevent her from ending the life of another. Now, if the women were being held against their will and raped constantly, then yes, you would have a point.

This made me laugh because you made those comparisons.



You obviously haven't been paying attention.


That wasn't you? Someone has been posting from your account then.
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#318 May 02 2011 at 12:20 PM Rating: Good
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Almalieque wrote:
1. No one is trapping anyone. Both the man and the woman voluntarily had ***.

2. Exactly, no one forced the male or female to have ***, hence how it isn't rape or slavery.

3. I'm pretty sure I was the one arguing the difference between discrimination of ***/skin color vs a personality trait. As evidence of your previous post, you are completely clueless of the argument at hand.
The issue at hand is you wanting to put the decision of whether a woman has an abortion or not in the hands of a man. If you don't think so you've not been paying attention to your own argument. Forcing women to carry to term unwanted pregnancies is forcing them to do something that is against their will. How can you not see this is wrong?

The issue of paying for your child is not even remotely similar to being forced to carry to term and give birth to a child you do not want. The laws on child support exist because of people like you. Deadbeat dads.




Almalieque wrote:
So, answer the question. Why would anyone have an abortion? It sounds like your answer is based on the child and not the fetus. If a doctor told a woman, "you're pregnant, but it appears that it will 'die' within 24 hours", would the woman think about having an abortion?
Why would anyone have an abortion? A number of reasons, health issues, social pressures, economic factors. Why does it matter why someone wants one?

If the foetus was going to die any way, getting an abortion would be redundant. What's your point?

Edited, May 2nd 2011 2:21pm by Nilatai
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#319varusword75, Posted: May 02 2011 at 12:29 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Nilat,
#320 May 02 2011 at 12:32 PM Rating: Good
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varusword75 wrote:
Oh and it doesn't matter how long long she's carrying the kid there is life at the moment of conception
Wrong, sinner. Life begins at the erection according to the Vatican.
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#321 May 02 2011 at 12:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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Oh good, Varus is here.


If life begins at conception why does god let 10-50% of all pregnancies fail by week 12? He's a ******* isn't he?
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#322varusword75, Posted: May 02 2011 at 12:34 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) lolgax,
#323varusword75, Posted: May 02 2011 at 12:35 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Nilat,
#324 May 02 2011 at 12:35 PM Rating: Good
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varusword75 wrote:
I was speaking medically of course.
Of course, that is the Christian attitude on the subject.
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#325 May 02 2011 at 12:39 PM Rating: Good
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Medical fact indeed. Hah.
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#326varusword75, Posted: May 02 2011 at 1:06 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Nilat,
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