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#277 May 02 2011 at 6:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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I bet the abortion rate of *** couples is pretty low. Good thing we won't let them get married
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#278 May 02 2011 at 6:45 AM Rating: Good
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Ailitardif wrote:
I bet the abortion rate of *** couples is pretty low. Good thing we won't let them get married
I read somewhere it's 0%, I'm not 100% on that though. Good thing we have decided as a society that ***** goes in ******, eh?
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#279 May 02 2011 at 6:52 AM Rating: Good
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Nilatai wrote:
Ailitardif wrote:
I bet the abortion rate of *** couples is pretty low. Good thing we won't let them get married
I read somewhere it's 0%, I'm not 100% on that though. Good thing we have decided as a society that ***** goes in ******, eh?

Society has sh*t for brains.

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#280 May 02 2011 at 6:55 AM Rating: Default
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Nilatai wrote:
Why don't you understand that having an abortion is taking responsibility? Irresponsible people would choose to give birth to a child they don't want/can't afford.


I'm not arguing that it isn't in any case, I'm arguing that abortion isn't the beginning of the decision process. Choosing to have *** is the beginning. If you're having voluntarily unprotected ***, you are being irresponsible (if you don't want a child). That's what I said. You can argue all you want otherwise, but you have no counter to that.

You are bypassing the first steps (i.e. ***) and jumping straight to abortion.

Nilatai wrote:
As far as I'm concerned it's not alive until it is self sufficient. ****, until 12 weeks there's a significant risk the body will reject it. No, you can't. A living person has more rights than a foetus.


So a person on life support isn't alive?

I'm not going into an emotional debate with you right now, but I assure you that I or someone else could. Your entire argument is based on your feelings.

Nilatai wrote:

The responsibility isn't equal though. Not until men can carry children.


The responsibility is the same, the actions taken aren't. That's why a father doesn't get as much time off from work as a woman for maternity/paternity leave. They are both taking responsibility for the child, just in a different way. Obviously the woman probably can't work as effective as the man during certain stages of the process.

Nilatai wrote:
Of course I can, they're two separate issues.


Not if you know where babies come from they aren't. If babies came from the stork, then yes, they would be different issues. That isn't the case ( I'll assume that you knew that already). Your responsibility of raising a child, stems from you actually having a child.
#281 May 02 2011 at 7:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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You're wrong about the medical leave for fathers. Federal law allows both parents 12 weeks unpaid leave.
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#282Almalieque, Posted: May 02 2011 at 7:03 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I know, phew, good thing pregnancies only occur with married couples.
#283 May 02 2011 at 7:03 AM Rating: Good
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Almalieque wrote:
I'm not arguing that it isn't in any case, I'm arguing that abortion isn't the beginning of the decision process. Choosing to have *** is the beginning. If you're having voluntarily unprotected ***, you are being irresponsible (if you don't want a child). That's what I said. You can argue all you want otherwise, but you have no counter to that.

You are bypassing the first steps (i.e. ***) and jumping straight to abortion.
Haha. You're an idiot. I said in one of my first posts that abortion shouldn't be used as a method of contraception, in my opinion. I also said I wouldn't support any legislation that makes that illegal, though. My personal preferences do not impact on what is the right decision.



Almalieque wrote:
So a person on life support isn't alive?

I'm not going into an emotional debate with you right now, but I assure you that I or someone else could. Your entire argument is based on your feelings.
Not really, no.



Almalieque wrote:
The responsibility is the same, the actions taken aren't. That's why a father doesn't get as much time off from work as a woman for maternity/paternity leave. They are both taking responsibility for the child, just in a different way. Obviously the woman probably can't work as effective as the man during certain stages of the process.
So, it's okay for them to have different responsibilities, right? Good, I'm glad that's settled.


Almalieque wrote:
Not if you know where babies come from they aren't. If babies came from the stork, then yes, they would be different issues. That isn't the case ( I'll assume that you knew that already). Your responsibility of raising a child, stems from you actually having a child.
Well done? Isn't abortion the exact opposite of having a child?
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#284 May 02 2011 at 7:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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Your entire argument is based on your feelings.
Its true, it is. The sad part though, is that you don't see that your argument is as well.
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#285 May 02 2011 at 7:09 AM Rating: Default
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Nilatai wrote:
Haha. You're an idiot. I said in one of my first posts that abortion shouldn't be used as a method of contraception, in my opinion. I also said I wouldn't support any legislation that makes that illegal, though. My personal preferences do not impact on what is the right decision.


I'll give you credit there, but you haven't provided any reason why it's the "right" decision, other than you believe so.

Nilatai wrote:
So, it's okay for them to have different responsibilities, right? Good, I'm glad that's settled.


The responsibility is the same, the actions taken aren't.

Nilatai wrote:
Well done? Isn't abortion the exact opposite of having a child?


Err. how can you have an abortion with no child/fetus?

#286 May 02 2011 at 7:15 AM Rating: Default
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
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Your entire argument is based on your feelings.
Its true, it is. The sad part though, is that you don't see that your argument is as well.


Only in the trivial sense..
#287 May 02 2011 at 7:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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Err. how can you have an abortion with no child/fetus?


You can have an abortion without having a child. A smattering of cells isn't sentient or intelligent, so, first trimester abortions are fine.
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#288 May 02 2011 at 7:19 AM Rating: Good
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Almalieque wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
Quote:
Your entire argument is based on your feelings.
Its true, it is. The sad part though, is that you don't see that your argument is as well.


Only in the trivial sense..
Sure, whatever you want to think.
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#289 May 02 2011 at 7:20 AM Rating: Decent
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Your entire argument is based on your feelings.


All arguments are based on feelings, dumbass. If you didn't feel the way you do about a topic, you wouldn't argue your point.
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#290 May 02 2011 at 7:29 AM Rating: Excellent
It's not hypocritical alma because there is a fundamental difference. The woman carries the baby. That makes it a completely different situation.

As we both agree that the decision to have *** is a decision to accept responsibility for your actions, then at that point the man has made his decision.

You'd be correct if the roles were the same, but they are not. The roles are different so the outcomes and some of the decisions will be different.
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#291 May 02 2011 at 7:29 AM Rating: Good
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Driftwood wrote:
All arguments are based on feelings, dumbass. If you didn't feel the way you do about a topic, you wouldn't argue your point.
I'm not in the habit of defending the twit, but way to over generalize.

Edited, May 2nd 2011 10:29am by Uglysasquatch
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#292 May 02 2011 at 7:31 AM Rating: Default
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I'm not in the habit of defending the twit, but way to over generalize.


Ok, fine, aside from trolls, and arguing known, confirmed facts, all arguments are based on one's feelings.
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#293 May 02 2011 at 7:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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#294 May 02 2011 at 8:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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Almalieque wrote:
Yes. I help support single mothers all of the time, by giving them money to pay for finances. It's slightly different as it isn't child support, but the money is often used for the child. In any case, it helps the mother.


Yeah, the reason you have to do that? Deadbeat dads.

Almalieque wrote:
It's either or, pick one. Either share the "responsibility" of raising the child or have total say so on the matter. You can't pick and choose whatever suits you at the time.


First, there will never be "equal responsibility." No matter how you try to spin it, a man will never be "equally responsible" for a child (assuming that the mother is in the picture at all, of course. But if she isn't, then the man gets child support).

Second, apparently we can "pick and choose," because that's how the law is now. Shore do hate it for you.

Almalieque wrote:
If you want the total say so on the birth of the child, then that means the man should be totally excluded from YOUR decision. If you want to mandate the man to be part of the child's life (which you should), then you also should be mandated to be part of the child's life.


I have absolutely no idea what this means.

Almalieque wrote:
How am I pretending it's the woman's fault when my entire argument is "Equality of responsibility", that doesn't even make sense. I provided two scenarios where the "responsibility" is equal. No where have I pointed the finger at the woman. I simply said that if you want total control, fine, leave the man out of it then. If you want to mandate the man to support the child, then you should be mandated as well. It's totally equal, so I'm not sure what you're talking about.


All you're doing is pointing the finger at the woman! Claiming that she's irresponsible over and over. And no, neither of your "scenarios" provided have "equal responsibility." That's impossible to do when talking about the birth of a kid. And all this "mandated" crap, what the **** are you talking about? Are you seriously equating a man having to pay some money to support a kid to nine months of incubating a child then raising it...? Seriously??

Almalieque wrote:
Not at all. You're just really really confused.


No, I think your emotions are just running away with you and you're too blind to see it.

Almalieque wrote:
I mean, instead of saying "Both men and women should be more responsible when having *** and take ownership to what may result", you're arguing "You can't force a woman to have a baby and by doing so you're hurting the child and the woman." We all know that ish happens, but why are you arguing in reaction as opposed to prevention?


Why am I "arguing reaction as opposed to prevention?" Because we're talking about abortion. Have I said anywhere in this thread that abortion is the only solution to possible pregnancy, and no woman should ever be on the pill, no man should ever use a condom? Why are you pulling **** into this arbitrarily and pretending I've argued something I haven't?

Almalieque wrote:
Side note: I hear what women say about each other, I probably respect women more than the average woman does.


Trust me. From what you've posted in this thread, you're dead wrong.
#295Almalieque, Posted: May 02 2011 at 8:02 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Nope, it's hypocritical. The woman knew just as much as the man what the potential outcomes were before having ***. If the man doesn't want to pay or financially support for a child, then he shouldn't be having *** or at least unprotected ***. If the woman doesn't want go through a pregnancy and/or support a child, then she shouldn't be having *** or at least unprotected ***.
#296 May 02 2011 at 8:08 AM Rating: Good
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I keep seeing you say "unprotected ***". So you're ok with it when the protection fails?
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#297 May 02 2011 at 8:08 AM Rating: Good
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Almalieque wrote:
I'll give you credit there, but you haven't provided any reason why it's the "right" decision, other than you believe so.
Because forcing a woman to give birth to an unwanted child is tantamount to slavery?



Almalieque wrote:
The responsibility is the same, the actions taken aren't.
Then what's your point?



Almalieque wrote:
Err. how can you have an abortion with no child/fetus?

Well if you have a child, it's generally born. A foetus is not a child, so if you have an abortion, you don't have a child. See?

Edited, May 2nd 2011 10:09am by Nilatai
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#298 May 02 2011 at 8:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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Havinng a child is not the same as being pregnant. You are confusing these.

This is by far the dumbest argument you've ever put forth. Can't wait to see what's next.
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#299 May 02 2011 at 8:11 AM Rating: Good
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Ailitardif wrote:
This is by far the dumbest argument you've ever put forth.
Not even close.
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#300 May 02 2011 at 8:13 AM Rating: Good
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
I keep seeing you say "unprotected ***". So you're ok with it when the protection fails?


He's already said that failed protection and/or rape are his only exceptions.
#301 May 02 2011 at 8:19 AM Rating: Good
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Belkira wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
I keep seeing you say "unprotected ***". So you're ok with it when the protection fails?


He's already said that failed protection and/or rape are his only exceptions.
Ah. Well at least I can understand where he's coming from even if I'm not in agreement with him.
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