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#1 Apr 21 2011 at 7:34 AM Rating: Good
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I watched this movie last night. I didnt really learn anything surprising. I knew cows were force-fed corn in mass production and that this provided the birthplace and conditions for e. coli as we know it. I knew that that our diets and our health were basically controlled by the multi-national food corps. Of course who doesn't know that childhood obesity and type 2 diabetes is running rampant amongst the masses. I knew that the less your income the more dependent you're likely to be on the cheap, nutritionless food system we've allowed to be created for our country.

But still it further drove home the reality of the exploitation by the multi-nationals of the well-meant but short-sighted corn subsidies. It reinforced my disgust over how much control these same corporations have on, not only our food system but, our justice system our labor and, sadly, our law-makers.

Coincidentally I'd just read this article by a fell named Corey Robin in The Nation. While reading it I was attempting to be in agreement with the author and trying to think of 'easy-to-visualize' ways examples of how corporations exert control over the population and was having a hard time of it.

Well after watching Food Inc. I got lots of good examples of how our so-called freedoms and personal liberties are being hacked away...and not by our laws, regulations and government (at least intentionally) but by big business.

I can't, however, paint the big picture in my mind that leads to way out of this mess. How do we reign in the power of the corporation while not alienating our free economy?

If you've not seen Food Inc. you can stream it free from a variety of sites. Understand, that like any propaganda it's highly biased, however, it's easy to pick out fact from opinion.

What's for lunch?



Edited, Apr 21st 2011 7:03pm by Elinda
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#2 Apr 21 2011 at 7:35 AM Rating: Good
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I'm thinking Arby's.
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#3 Apr 21 2011 at 7:43 AM Rating: Good
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I think we should go all Caldari from EVE Online, and just have the corporations BE our government. Ultra-corporatocracy.


I mean, they pretty much are already. Might as well make it official.

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#4 Apr 21 2011 at 8:08 AM Rating: Good
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On this subject, Eating Animals is a good book. It seems that the corn industry is way more powerful than I thought, even more powerful than oil and sugar.
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#5 Apr 21 2011 at 8:13 AM Rating: Decent
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The thing about it all is you don't have to allow your life to be run by all this. You can still find rural land and grow most of your own food and husbandry your own animals as long as you don't have like 10+ kids running around.

It comes down to convenience. If you want to change the world, make the alternative you seek more convenient or it wont gain traction. People are GD lazy.
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#6 Apr 21 2011 at 8:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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SwiftAusterity wrote:
The thing about it all is you don't have to allow your life to be run by all this. You can still find rural land and grow most of your own food and husbandry your own animals as long as you don't have like 10+ kids running around.

It comes down to convenience. If you want to change the world, make the alternative you seek more convenient or it wont gain traction. People are GD lazy.


Yes, it's lazy to need a job in order to pay your bills and get health insurance. Damn, I feel lazy for showing up to work at 8:30 every week day and leaving at 5:30.
#7 Apr 21 2011 at 8:31 AM Rating: Good
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Belkira wrote:
SwiftAusterity wrote:
The thing about it all is you don't have to allow your life to be run by all this. You can still find rural land and grow most of your own food and husbandry your own animals as long as you don't have like 10+ kids running around.

It comes down to convenience. If you want to change the world, make the alternative you seek more convenient or it wont gain traction. People are GD lazy.


Yes, it's lazy to need a job in order to pay your bills and get health insurance. Damn, I feel lazy for showing up to work at 8:30 every week day and leaving at 5:30.


I'm even lazier, I go in at 8:00 and leave at 5:00.
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#8 Apr 21 2011 at 8:32 AM Rating: Good
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SwiftAusterity wrote:
The thing about it all is you don't have to allow your life to be run by all this.
No of course not. I've been weaning myself off grocery stores for years. But, a few hippies growing their own food is not a sufficient solution.

We need mass produced food to feed the masses. We just need healthier food, made under better working conditions and not have the whole system controlled by a handful of international companies.

The movie interviewed the guy that started up Stoneyfield Farms - the yogurt company. He seemed to understand the science, the economy and the reality.
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#9 Apr 21 2011 at 8:39 AM Rating: Decent
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Belkira wrote:
Yes, it's lazy to need a job in order to pay your bills and get health insurance. Damn, I feel lazy for showing up to work at 8:30 every week day and leaving at 5:30.


I'm wondering how humanity survived before health insurance, tract housing and electricity. Oh wait they grew their own food or ate locally grown food. Hmm.

Are you going to the grocery store or producing your own food to eat? If you're buying food from a corporation which gets its supplies from other corporations then you're doing so out of convenience. You have no mindset to "change the world" which is what the thread is about, then, because it would be less convenient.

This was the point of my prior post.
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#10 Apr 21 2011 at 8:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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SwiftAusterity wrote:
Belkira wrote:
Yes, it's lazy to need a job in order to pay your bills and get health insurance. Damn, I feel lazy for showing up to work at 8:30 every week day and leaving at 5:30.


I'm wondering how humanity survived before health insurance, tract housing and electricity. Oh wait they grew their own food or ate locally grown food. Hmm.

Are you going to the grocery store or producing your own food to eat? If you're buying food from a corporation which gets its supplies from other corporations then you're doing so out of convenience. You have no mindset to "change the world" which is what the thread is about, then, because it would be less convenient.

This was the point of my prior post.


I guess all those folks living in apartments in downtown NY can just start a garden in Central Park. Problem solved!
#11 Apr 21 2011 at 8:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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SwiftAusterity wrote:
I'm wondering how humanity survived before health insurance, tract housing and electricity. Oh wait they grew their own food or ate locally grown food. Hmm.
And were dead before 40.
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#12 Apr 21 2011 at 8:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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SwiftAusterity wrote:
I'm wondering how humanity survived before health insurance, tract housing and electricity. Oh wait they grew their own food or ate locally grown food. Hmm.


And it was when they learned to mass-produce food, thereby allowing specialized trades, that they advanced, learned, developed, and improved their quality of life.


Your complaint is flawed.
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#13 Apr 21 2011 at 8:55 AM Rating: Good
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SwiftAusterity wrote:
Belkira wrote:
Yes, it's lazy to need a job in order to pay your bills and get health insurance. Damn, I feel lazy for showing up to work at 8:30 every week day and leaving at 5:30.


I'm wondering how humanity survived before health insurance, tract housing and electricity. Oh wait they grew their own food or ate locally grown food. Hmm.

Are you going to the grocery store or producing your own food to eat? If you're buying food from a corporation which gets its supplies from other corporations then you're doing so out of convenience. You have no mindset to "change the world" which is what the thread is about, then, because it would be less convenient.

This was the point of my prior post.
You do realize there are like over 300 million people in this country?
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#14 Apr 21 2011 at 8:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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SwiftAusterity wrote:
I'm wondering how humanity survived before health insurance, tract housing and electricity.


They died an early and painful death.

Fun!!
#15 Apr 21 2011 at 9:00 AM Rating: Good
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Heh, that was like a torrent of indignant responses.


Go team.
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#16 Apr 21 2011 at 9:04 AM Rating: Good
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Eske Esquire wrote:
Heh, that was like a torrent of indignant responses.


Go team.
Do we get some Zoints?
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#17 Apr 21 2011 at 9:05 AM Rating: Good
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SwiftAusterity wrote:
Belkira wrote:
Yes, it's lazy to need a job in order to pay your bills and get health insurance. Damn, I feel lazy for showing up to work at 8:30 every week day and leaving at 5:30.


I'm wondering how humanity survived before health insurance, tract housing and electricity. Oh wait they grew their own food or ate locally grown food. Hmm.

Are you going to the grocery store or producing your own food to eat? If you're buying food from a corporation which gets its supplies from other corporations then you're doing so out of convenience. You have no mindset to "change the world" which is what the thread is about, then, because it would be less convenient.

This was the point of my prior post.
BRB, Mr. Jenkins needs my help to fix the axle on his old wagon.
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#18 Apr 21 2011 at 9:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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SwiftAusterity wrote:
I'm wondering how humanity survived before health insurance, tract housing and electricity. Oh wait they grew their own food or ate locally grown food. Hmm.

Cold, riddled with parasites and giving birth at age 14 so another five year old could help feed the goats, provided the baby wasn't stillborn.
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#19 Apr 21 2011 at 9:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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You attempted to ford the river.


Wait, what are we doing?

Edited, Apr 21st 2011 11:10am by Eske
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#20 Apr 21 2011 at 9:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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Eske Esquire wrote:
You attempted to ford the river.


You have died of dysentery.

I ALWAYS chose the banker, and usually made it in record time. A couple wagons with a ton of oxen made you go pretty darn quick!
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#21 Apr 21 2011 at 9:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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Screenshot

Now with pictures.


Edited, Apr 21st 2011 11:15am by lolgaxe
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#22 Apr 21 2011 at 9:20 AM Rating: Good
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Aquaman drowned?
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#23 Apr 21 2011 at 9:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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The entire premise of the original argument is flawed and the material used to support it is agenda-based propaganda.

People are free to spend their money on raw ingredients, and could then make all of the healthy food they cared to. We have the "problems" asserted because people are too lazy to do what's necessary to ensure their health. Instead they opt for fast, pre-packaged, processed foods that have little redeeming value.

This is yet another issue that splits itself on the point of personal responsibility. It is about a growing culture that would rather see the government regulate an industry to force them to make better choices than to step up and make the right choice on their own. Not surprising in the least is that you've consumed the propaganda lock, stock, and barrel, and come here once more to foist on us the liberal clap-trap that makes up the input for any "critical thinking" you choose to engage in.

Get out of my pocket, get out of my kitchen. Libertarian.
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#24 Apr 21 2011 at 10:02 AM Rating: Good
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MoebiusLord wrote:
The entire premise of the original argument is flawed and the material used to support it is agenda-based propaganda.

People are free to spend their money on raw ingredients, and could then make all of the healthy food they cared to. We have the "problems" asserted because people are too lazy to do what's necessary to ensure their health. Instead they opt for fast, pre-packaged, processed foods that have little redeeming value.

This is yet another issue that splits itself on the point of personal responsibility. It is about a growing culture that would rather see the government regulate an industry to force them to make better choices than to step up and make the right choice on their own. Not surprising in the least is that you've consumed the propaganda lock, stock, and barrel, and come here once more to foist on us the liberal clap-trap that makes up the input for any "critical thinking" you choose to engage in.

Get out of my pocket, get out of my kitchen. Libertarian.
It's not that simple Moe and you know it. Besides the lack of labeling, most food is not presented on the aisle as it actually is. Yes, we can all better research what we're buying, but it's investigative work that most are not trained and/or equipped to succeed at.

Had you actually read what my op said, you'd see that it clearly stated that the movie was propaganda. However, the questions I raise are not negated by that fact, and it simply doesn't disqualify the reality of the state that our food production is in.

Are you willing to take all responsibility for diseased low-nutrition unhealthy food on our stores shelves, dangerous and illegal working conditions in the factories, the pressure on the farmers to comply or lose their livlihood, totally OFF the shoulders of the corporation and place it fully on the backs of the 'irresponsible' uneducated, low-payed lazy mass of average joes? Are you that far gone?

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#25 Apr 21 2011 at 10:21 AM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
It's not that simple Moe and you know it. Besides the lack of labeling, most food is not presented on the aisle as it actually is. Yes, we can all better research what we're buying, but it's investigative work that most are not trained and/or equipped to succeed at.

It is that simple. When I give a crap, I buy raw ingredients and COOK. Flour, hormone riddled eggs & chicken, E coli contaminated vegetables; when I take them home, wash them, mix them together in the prescribed ratios and voila! I have a healthy meal and a happy family.
Elinda wrote:
Had you actually read what my op said, you'd see that it clearly stated that the movie was propaganda. However, the questions I raise are not negated by that fact, and it simply doesn't disqualify the reality of the state that our food production is in.

That's varus dumb. "All of my background info is crap, but it doesn't minimize my argument"? Really? That's what you're going with?
Elinda wrote:
Are you willing to take all responsibility for diseased low-nutrition unhealthy food on our stores shelves, dangerous and illegal working conditions in the factories, the pressure on the farmers to comply or lose their livlihood, totally OFF the shoulders of the corporation and place it fully on the backs of the 'irresponsible' uneducated, low-payed lazy mass of average joes? Are you that far gone?

Caveat emptor. Yes, it is traditionally a property law principle, but applied to the rest of life it falls in to the "common sense" category. In a more pointed answer to your question, yes. F'uck 'em if they can't be bothered to inform themselves.
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#26 Apr 21 2011 at 10:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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The bits about factory farming, etc don't bother me much. Welcome to the Green Revolution. There are problems with urban access to healthy food (and a variety of groceries in general) which isn't helped by Democratic mayoral opposition to Walmarts in some major cities. Union or not, fair wages or not, at least they have groceries and I haven't seen any brilliant plans to seed those areas with Safeways or other grocery chains.

The corn lobby however has entirely too much power owing to its swath across the Heartland and the quadrennial handjobs for Iowa. It's a problem with both parties.
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#27 Apr 21 2011 at 10:42 AM Rating: Good
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MoebiusLord wrote:

It is that simple. When I give a crap, I buy raw ingredients and COOK. Flour, hormone riddled eggs & chicken, E coli contaminated vegetables; when I take them home, wash them, mix them together in the prescribed ratios and voila! I have a healthy meal and a happy family.
Yeah, I cook for my family too. It's not really that unusual. More unusual, a little over a decade ago I made my family burgers with meat bought that day from the local grocery store. My husband go very sick. It was confirmed to be E.coli. Nursing a grown man who can't control either ends of his digestive system is not fun. Besides, he nearly died. I'm responsible as I didn't burn the burger (we had to report the case to DHS who confirmed it was the grocery store hamburger). But heck I grew up on meat my dad and uncles slaughtered themselves - we ate burger raw. This is when I started to look for alternatives to the grocery store.

Personal stories aside, do you think food producers should have no government oversight?
Moe wrote:
F'uck 'em if they can't be bothered to inform themselves.
So, you're ok with public eduation?




Edited, Apr 21st 2011 6:44pm by Elinda
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#28 Apr 21 2011 at 10:59 AM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
Yeah, I cook for my family too. It's not really that unusual. More unusual, a little over a decade ago I made my family burgers with meat bought that day from the local grocery store. My husband go very sick. It was confirmed to be E.coli. Nursing a grown man who can't control either ends of his digestive system is not fun. Besides, he nearly died. I'm responsible as I didn't burn the burger (we had to report the case to DHS who confirmed it was the grocery store hamburger). But heck I grew up on meat my dad and uncles slaughtered themselves - we ate burger raw. This is when I started to look for alternatives to the grocery store.

Personal stories aside, do you think food producers should have no government oversight?


The E. coli in ground meat is just one of the many reasons that we should be irradiating meat in this country (though I would rather see a return to pastured meats). Irradiation has had more safety testing than all other processing combined. It is completely safe and extremely effective.


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#29 Apr 21 2011 at 11:02 AM Rating: Good
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I tried the link to the article in the original post. It took me to a signup page.

The name of the article is Reclaiming the Politics of Freedom. Here is another link - not sure if it will work different or better or whatever.
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#30 Apr 21 2011 at 11:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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Ailitardif, Star Breaker wrote:
The E. coli in ground meat is just one of the many reasons that we should be irradiating meat in this country (though I would rather see a return to pastured meats). Irradiation has had more safety testing than all other processing combined. It is completely safe and extremely effective.


Mmmm...irradiated meat. Lemme just pop a couple Rad-X. Smiley: drool2
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#31 Apr 21 2011 at 11:07 AM Rating: Decent
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Elinda wrote:
Personal stories aside, do you think food producers should have no government oversight?

I think that food producers already had oversight in Tort & Contract Law.
Elinda wrote:
Moe wrote:
F'uck 'em if they can't be bothered to inform themselves.
So, you're ok with public eduation?

I'm ok with an educated public. I think public schools should be scrapped or privatized. Barring that, it's another area that the Federal government has no business sticking its nose in.

EDIT: Just an aside, I grind my own beef and eat rare burgers. No E coli for me.

Edited, Apr 21st 2011 12:10pm by MoebiusLord
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#32 Apr 21 2011 at 11:16 AM Rating: Decent
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MoebiusLord wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Personal stories aside, do you think food producers should have no government oversight?

I think that food producers already had oversight in Tort & Contract Law.
I take that as a 'no'. If they meat producers **** up we sue them and they change their practices...yeah, I can see that working.

Moe wrote:
F'uck 'em if they can't be bothered to inform themselves.
So, you're ok with public eduation?[/quote]
Quote:
I'm ok with an educated public. I think public schools should be scrapped or privatized. Barring that, it's another area that the Federal government has no business sticking its nose in.
Keep the ghetto folk ignorant and they'll never complain about the lack of decent food available to them.





Edited, Apr 21st 2011 7:16pm by Elinda
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#33 Apr 21 2011 at 11:17 AM Rating: Decent
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MoebiusLord wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Personal stories aside, do you think food producers should have no government oversight?

I think that food producers already had oversight in Tort & Contract Law.
Elinda wrote:
Moe wrote:
F'uck 'em if they can't be bothered to inform themselves.
So, you're ok with public eduation?

I'm ok with an educated public. I think public schools should be scrapped or privatized. Barring that, it's another area that the Federal government has no business sticking its nose in.

EDIT: Just an aside, I grind my own beef and eat rare burgers. No E coli for me.

Edited, Apr 21st 2011 12:10pm by MoebiusLord
I think you're full of **** but that's old news eh.
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#34 Apr 21 2011 at 11:41 AM Rating: Good
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Humans are disgusting and far too numerous, corporations have too much power, most people don't care enough about it or aren't aware of it, the corporate world will do everything in its power to **** the people over if it means profit, and politicians are doing nothing about it. These are all platitudinal. I'm a Marxist, so to me the argument is valid, but Moe is right by calling its base fallacious. I'm surprised he attacked the fallacy first instead of attacking The Nation. All that being said, what is the point of this thread?
#35 Apr 21 2011 at 11:49 AM Rating: Good
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lilwoc,

Quote:
I'm a Marxist


No you're not. You just think you're cool for saying so.

#36 Apr 21 2011 at 11:50 AM Rating: Default
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LeWoVoc wrote:
All that being said, what is the point of this thread?
What's the point of another pretentious punk commenting in a pointless thread?

Can't you see Moe's **** is full?
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#37varusword75, Posted: Apr 21 2011 at 11:54 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Moe,
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varusword75 wrote:
And I grow my own vegetables so essentially i'm eating fresh vegetables just about year round.


Fun fact: their photosynthesis is powered by his own smug sense of self-satisfaction. It's 100% renewable.
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#39 Apr 21 2011 at 12:48 PM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
I take that as a 'no'. If they meat producers **** up we sue them and they change their practices...yeah, I can see that working.

You can take it however you like. The fact is that the oversight you and your ilk clamor for is a recent construct. People have relied on farmers/food producers for centuries. Profit was, is, and will be the motivator for quality products.
Elinda wrote:
Keep the ghetto folk ignorant and they'll never complain about the lack of decent food available to them.

Your assumption that accommodation could not, or would not, be made highlights your ignorance.


And as to you thinking I'm full of sh:t, I can't imagine why. There's no reason not to grind your own beef. It takes mere minutes to grind out a pound of beef for burgers that tastes better and is healthier than what I would get at the grocery store. There's also no reason not to make your own pasta, even if you don't have a roller. It all goes back to laziness and people's priorities being reflected in their choices.
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#40 Apr 21 2011 at 12:48 PM Rating: Good
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varusword75 wrote:
If I didn't live in the city
Ha ha.
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#41 Apr 21 2011 at 12:50 PM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
LeWoVoc wrote:
All that being said, what is the point of this thread?
What's the point of another pretentious punk commenting in a pointless thread?

Can't you see Moe's **** is full?

If it's full, you're being lazy again. It's not going to suck itself, sweetheart.
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#42 Apr 21 2011 at 1:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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varusword75 wrote:
If I didn't live in the city

Don't worry, you don't.
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#43 Apr 21 2011 at 1:21 PM Rating: Decent
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MoebiusLord wrote:
Elinda wrote:
LeWoVoc wrote:
All that being said, what is the point of this thread?
What's the point of another pretentious punk commenting in a pointless thread?

Can't you see Moe's **** is full?

If it's full, you're being lazy again. It's not going to suck itself, sweetheart.
I'm a good at delegating unpleasant tasks.

I don't think you intentionally draw in these young pompous boys with your overbearing testosterone. Still it's annoying. Stop it.
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#44 Apr 21 2011 at 1:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
varusword75 wrote:
If I didn't live in the city

Don't worry, you don't.
Omg you don't. The City resides up on the 16th floor and beyond. In the city the taxi-drivers honk their horns ALL night. In the city parking costs hundreds of dollars. In the city there are so many intermingled smells you don't know whether to salivate, throw up or run away. The City has no fewer than 5 Starbucks/acre (but they all have wifi!). In the city all shoes have gum stuck on the bottom.

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#45 Apr 21 2011 at 1:41 PM Rating: Good
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varusword75 wrote:
lilwoc,

Quote:
I'm a Marxist


No you're not. You just think you're cool for saying so.

Well, who knows better than varus? I'm sure your readings on Marx have sharpened your sense of discrimination in this field. Since you decided to pipe up, how does it feel to have a faction of socialists in your town?

Elinda, I'm not showing up to say "this is pointless." I'm trying to figure out the point. If you assert that there is no point, then color me pretentious.

Edit: Varus, what part of Knoxville qualifies as "city," exactly?

Edited, Apr 21st 2011 1:42pm by LeWoVoc
#46 Apr 21 2011 at 1:49 PM Rating: Good
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#47 Apr 21 2011 at 1:49 PM Rating: Good
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Belkira wrote:
SwiftAusterity wrote:
I'm wondering how humanity survived before health insurance, tract housing and electricity.


They died an early and painful death.

Fun!!

My neighbors who were farmers and due to poor income (farming does not pay) would supplement their "meals" with lots of wild game. Farming is back breaking work and farmers tend to have large families (large free workforce).

Before health insurance, the medical industry was poorly regulated so of course, people who had no formal medical training were practicing medicine (amputation via hack saw ftw)

We're fat not just because of foods we eat (the meals of the past were equally fatty) but because we are less mobile. We aren't pulling plows, riding bikes or walking to the neighbors to share tea.
It doesn't seem to be a new idea either because if you notice paintings fo aristocracy or royalty from the pas, they are FAT - they didn't have MCDonalds, they were inactive.
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#48 Apr 21 2011 at 2:01 PM Rating: Default
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niobia wrote:
Belkira wrote:
SwiftAusterity wrote:
I'm wondering how humanity survived before health insurance, tract housing and electricity.


They died an early and painful death.

Fun!!

My neighbors who were farmers and due to poor income (farming does not pay) would supplement their "meals" with lots of wild game. Farming is back breaking work and farmers tend to have large families (large free workforce).

Before health insurance, the medical industry was poorly regulated so of course, people who had no formal medical training were practicing medicine (amputation via hack saw ftw)

We're fat not just because of foods we eat (the meals of the past were equally fatty) but because we are less mobile. We aren't pulling plows, riding bikes or walking to the neighbors to share tea.
It doesn't seem to be a new idea either because if you notice paintings fo aristocracy or royalty from the pas, they are FAT - they didn't have MCDonalds, they were inactive.
No. We now consume orders of magnitude more refined sugar than we ever did pre-food factories. While inactivity is certainly a risk factor it's not the biggest risk factor. Ask any dietitian how to lose weight and they'll tell you to consume fewer calories.
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#49varusword75, Posted: Apr 21 2011 at 2:03 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) lilwoc,
#50 Apr 21 2011 at 2:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Elinda,

Quote:
While inactivity is certainly a risk factor it's not the biggest risk factor. Ask any dietitian how to lose weight and they'll tell you to consume fewer calories.


and ask any athlete and they'll say run.

#51 Apr 21 2011 at 2:16 PM Rating: Good
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varusword75 wrote:
lilwoc,

Quote:
Varus, what part of Knoxville qualifies as "city," exactly?


Only a mile and a half from downtown.

I can hear the crowd at neyland stadium clearly from my backyard.

H*ll if you're downtown on a weekend you might see me there jogging with my dog.

Come see me play in Market Square some time. I'll play a backwoods country song just for you. I wouldn't exactly call the area a city, though. The presence of black people does not automatically imply a city environment, and just because it's relatively more city-esque than the rest of the area does not make it even minorly comparable to any real metropolis.
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