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WSJ "Obama speech most dishonest in decades"Follow

#102 Apr 15 2011 at 10:03 AM Rating: Excellent
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varusword75 wrote:
Obviously you don't know what accredited means.

Are you just grabbing random words from your calendar or what?
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#103 Apr 15 2011 at 7:49 PM Rating: Decent
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bsphil wrote:
gbaji wrote:
And have you considered that the same dollar left in the hands of the person who originally earned it, might just be an even better investment than both of them?
Yes. For the most part, it gets saved rather than spent.


Saved where? You understand that's a false dilemma, right? Money "saved" by the rich isn't put under a mattress. It's invested in some way. And the things they invest that money into "spend" it on things related to the investment itself. The difference isn't about spending versus saving, but investment versus consumption (or even supply side versus demand side). It's quite arguable that the money we tax from "the rich" would result in greater job and economic growth over time if not taxed. I'm not going to detail that argument right now, but it's certainly unfair to just label it "savings" and pretend that by taxing it, the government is putting otherwise idle money to work.

bsphil wrote:
gbaji wrote:
The fact that everyone on the right says it's biased and everyone on the left says it's not should be a big hint that it's biased. Think about it.
Apply the same logic to Fox News, but swap the political ideology.


Fox News doesn't receive taxpayer dollars to pay for their programming, nor do their affiliates receive funding to carry that programming. So, since you're so capable of seeing things in both directions, I assume you agree with me that NPR should not be funded either, right?

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You don't need to take opinion polls of fox to prove it's biased though, that can be done objectively by evaluating their content and by grading the amount of misinformation espoused by viewers of the network relative to those who do not. Spoiler alert: that was already done.


Not really interested in the whole "Is Fox News biased" bit, since I've already won this round. But wouldn't a better way be to examine the political demographics of their viewers? We can assume that the more biased a media source is, the more skewed its viewers should be, right? And yet, what the statistics clearly show is that there is a far more balanced set of viewers for Fox than for any other cable news network. Strange, isn't it? Again, I don't need to prove this to you to win this one, but it's interesting that you're wrong all the way around on this one.
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#104 Apr 16 2011 at 11:44 AM Rating: Decent
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gbaji wrote:
Fox News doesn't receive taxpayer dollars to pay for their programming, nor do their affiliates receive funding to carry that programming. So, since you're so capable of seeing things in both directions, I assume you agree with me that NPR should not be funded either, right?
Well, they did get a federal tax rebate. More than NPR got in federal funding. I think NPR should be a public service, I'm apathetic about federal funding, mainly because of how relatively small it is.

gbaji wrote:
Not really interested in the whole "Is Fox News biased" bit, since I've already won this round.
Ha, try not to pat yourself on the back too hard, don't want to hurt yourself.

gbaji wrote:
But wouldn't a better way be to examine the political demographics of their viewers? We can assume that the more biased a media source is, the more skewed its viewers should be, right? And yet, what the statistics clearly show is that there is a far more balanced set of viewers for Fox than for any other cable news network. Strange, isn't it? Again, I don't need to prove this to you to win this one, but it's interesting that you're wrong all the way around on this one.
Haha. No, the more biased the media source, the more MISINFORMED the viewers are. Doesn't matter the makeup of the viewers, only if what they're being told is factual or not. If there was a news source that had a vastly conservative audience but they were consistently less misinformed than any other news source, THAT would be the most unbiased news organization. You can't have a bias towards facts.

On that case though, Fox loses terribly. Their viewers are far more misinformed on news topics than regular viewers of any other network. October 2003 study from the University of Maryland Program on International Policy Attitudes shows that 80% of regular Fox News viewers had one or more misinformed views, whereas only 23% of regular viewers/listeners of PBS-NPR had one or more misinformed views. Looks to me like Fox News is a plague on reality and PBS/NPR is the most reliable news source to me, even doing a better job of accurately informing the public than the print media, which has been a traditional herald of investigative journalism.

Go ahead gbaji, polish that ****.



Edited, Apr 16th 2011 1:00pm by bsphil
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I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#105 Apr 16 2011 at 11:45 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
We can assume that the more biased a media source is, the more skewed its viewers should be, right?
But, you just said you weren't interested in the Fox News is biased topic ...
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#106 Apr 16 2011 at 3:42 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
It's quite arguable that the money we tax from "the rich" would result in greater job and economic growth over time if not taxed.


Arguable =/= truth

Edited, Apr 16th 2011 5:42pm by Ailitardif
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#107 Apr 16 2011 at 4:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
It's quite arguable that the money we tax from "the rich" would result in greater job and economic growth over time if not taxed.


Ya in countries outside of America, like China, Mexico, Brazil, Africa, Middle East. Places that are actually worth investing in right now.
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#108 Apr 16 2011 at 5:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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rdmcandie wrote:
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It's quite arguable that the money we tax from "the rich" would result in greater job and economic growth over time if not taxed.


Ya in countries outside of America, like China, Mexico, Brazil, Africa, Middle East. Places that are actually worth investing in right now.
Ridiculous. NOW is the time to buy things up in America. Real Estate is still low, businesses are in distress and everyone down there is ripe for the picking because the banks are still tighter than gbaji's ***.
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#109 Apr 16 2011 at 6:43 PM Rating: Decent
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While it may be time to buy up current properties and markets in the US (like many Canadian banks are doing such as TD, CIBC, RBC, BMO) it is frivolous to invest in the United States as far as growth is concerned. The market is still highly unstable, an the economy is growing very slowly. It would make more sense to invest in Canada then the US even though it is more expensive to do so. As our economy is growing.

Do not confuse buying up weak business with investing.
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#110 Apr 16 2011 at 6:54 PM Rating: Decent
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varusword75 wrote:
Obviously you don't know what accredited means.

You should go tell him after you look it up yourself.
#111 Apr 16 2011 at 7:20 PM Rating: Good
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rdmcandie wrote:
While it may be time to buy up current properties and markets in the US (like many Canadian banks are doing such as TD, CIBC, RBC, BMO) it is frivolous to invest in the United States as far as growth is concerned. The market is still highly unstable, an the economy is growing very slowly. It would make more sense to invest in Canada then the US even though it is more expensive to do so. As our economy is growing.

Do not confuse buying up weak business with investing.
Given the strength of the Canadian dollar, now is a bad time to invest in Canada with the US being an alternative. What would I know though? I only do things like this.
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#112 Apr 17 2011 at 12:55 AM Rating: Default
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
rdmcandie wrote:
While it may be time to buy up current properties and markets in the US (like many Canadian banks are doing such as TD, CIBC, RBC, BMO) it is frivolous to invest in the United States as far as growth is concerned. The market is still highly unstable, an the economy is growing very slowly. It would make more sense to invest in Canada then the US even though it is more expensive to do so. As our economy is growing.

Do not confuse buying up weak business with investing.
Given the strength of the Canadian dollar, now is a bad time to invest in Canada with the US being an alternative. What would I know though? I only do things like this.


And why would you do that....to make more money personally (or for your company.) It is not investment in America, it is for personal gains. Which was my point. You aren't talking about building a new power station or investing in more economical means of travel etc, you are talking about buying a (currently) ****** store and giving it a new sign, and banking on the economy righting itself and your store turning a profit. Where as taxes that are being used in emerging programs, such as green energy programs are a direct investment into the work force.

Rich people don't invest if there is no money to be made, they don't give a **** about the 1000 jobs they kill when they move a plant from say Michigan to Mexico, they only care about the bottom line, and if that bottom line is more money elsewhere be it cheaper running costs, cheaper labor costs, lax environmental cost (ie. waste removal), lax building codes, etc etc etc then that is what they will vote to do.

There is no reason to build a new plant in Michigan, or the like because it costs more money than it produces. People that invest largely in companies such as Ford for example, want money, and are typically on the board. They make decisions to make money on their investments. Fact of the matter is they make more money by building the vehicles in Mexico and shipping them to the US. They used to make more money doing the same in Canada but that is also changing significantly over the last 10 years. My town has lost 2 production plants for big trucks to mexico, and is about to lose a Ford production plant because the financial returns are not there.

Rich people do not invest to boost the economy, they invest to make money.

(on a completely unrelated topic, I just followed a link to a particularly amusing thread, and understand your 10K title, SOUL BALLS!)
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#113 Apr 17 2011 at 4:22 AM Rating: Good
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rdmcandie wrote:
Rich people do not invest to boost the economy, they invest to make money.
Improving the economy is an added benefit.


Quote:
(on a completely unrelated topic, I just followed a link to a particularly amusing thread, and understand your 10K title, SOUL BALLS!)
I somehow caused one epic meltdown with a few mostly innocent lines.
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#114 Apr 17 2011 at 7:27 AM Rating: Decent
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
rdmcandie wrote:
Rich people do not invest to boost the economy, they invest to make money.
Improving the economy is an added benefit.


But it doesn't directlt do anything for anyone. Taxing the richest right now in America allows the government in addition to the points I made earlier to increase funding for much needed social programs right now. They can cut taxes on lower income people, they can provide assistance to those who are actively seeking employment etc. It allows the government to give money to people and indirectly infuse it into the economy. The majority of the US is having a hard time right now. The top earners are still sitting pretty. But the top earners aren't the ones who go see a movie when they can, or spend money on non-essentials in a large manner. The best way to get the economy rolling is to increase the spending of the American people. Through this companies are making money so they hire a few more people to keep up with increased customers, they open a new store to allow for more sales, creating more jobs, which creates more spending and so on and so forth.

Investing in weak companies, in a weak economy does not fix the issue. People aren't spending money, because they don't have money.


Quote:
Quote:
(on a completely unrelated topic, I just followed a link to a particularly amusing thread, and understand your 10K title, SOUL BALLS!)
I somehow caused one epic meltdown with a few mostly innocent lines.


Ya from what I read it seemed pretty epic. Kudos to you for that one, definitely had me chuckling at 2AM last night.


Edited, Apr 17th 2011 9:27am by rdmcandie

Edited, Apr 17th 2011 9:29am by rdmcandie
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#115 Apr 17 2011 at 8:00 AM Rating: Good
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I was agreeing with that statement, twit. People with money invest to improve their wealth, not to improve the economy, however it has the added side effect of growing the economy anyway. The US doesn't need to increase taxes on the wealthy by the way, it just needs to close tax loopholes.

Edited, Apr 17th 2011 11:01am by Uglysasquatch
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#116 Apr 17 2011 at 12:07 PM Rating: Good
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
The US doesn't need to increase taxes on the wealthy by the way, it just needs to close tax loopholes.


Judging by the reaction to the last bill trying to close loopholes, the wealthy view those two options as one in the same.
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#117 Apr 17 2011 at 12:47 PM Rating: Good
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TirithRR the Eccentric wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
The US doesn't need to increase taxes on the wealthy by the way, it just needs to close tax loopholes.


Judging by the reaction to the last bill trying to close loopholes, the wealthy view those two options as one in the same.
Except there are those among the wealthy not using the loopholes, so why nail them when tax rates aren't the issue?
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#118 Apr 17 2011 at 1:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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God forbid we consider raising taxes when trying to fix a massive deficit instead of just slash-and-burn tactics against programs we don't like politically...
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The Orange County Register notes that statistics "consistently show that federal taxes are at a historic low."

"For the past two years, a family of four earning the median income has paid less in federal income taxes than at any time since at least 1955, according to the Tax Policy Center. All federal, state and local taxes combined are a lower percentage of per-capita income than at any time since the 1960s, according to the Tax Foundation. The highest income-tax bracket is its lowest since 1992. At 35 percent, it's well below the 50 percent mark of much of the 1980s and the 70 percent bracket of the 1970s."
...I mean, if we raised any taxes (directly or indirectly), it would be the worst, most socialist thing to EVER happen in America!!
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#119 Apr 17 2011 at 1:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
It's quite arguable that the money we tax from "the rich" would result in greater job and economic growth over time if not taxed.


In this day and age, it's really not. Countries with greater social spending and higher wealthy taxation rates have far better hard outcomes than the U.S.. And we've seen in our own country that tax breaks for the rich have not trickled down-- they've only widened the income gap, which is behaviorally what you would expect. Money we don't tax from the rich sits in pockets of wealth that move more slowly and stifle commerce. The more equitable wealth is, the faster money moves and the more business for all to be had.
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#120varusword75, Posted: Apr 18 2011 at 10:38 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Jophed,
#121 Apr 18 2011 at 10:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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varusword75 wrote:
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I mean, if we raised any taxes (directly or indirectly), it would be the worst
What it would do is continue to foster an anti-business pro-communist atmosphere. But you already knew that.

Reagan was an anti-business Communist? Learn something new every day.
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#122 Apr 18 2011 at 11:13 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
varusword75 wrote:
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I mean, if we raised any taxes (directly or indirectly), it would be the worst
What it would do is continue to foster an anti-business pro-communist atmosphere. But you already knew that.

Reagan was an anti-business Communist? Learn something new every day.


Joph, up until now I thought you were smart. It is only communist if it comes from a democrat, otherwise it is patriotism.
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#123 Apr 18 2011 at 11:16 AM Rating: Good
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Every time someone mentions Reagan it reminds me of this Onion article.

Edited, Apr 18th 2011 1:18pm by Siesen
#124 Apr 18 2011 at 11:32 AM Rating: Good
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Every time someone mentions Reagan it reminds me of this Lewis Black joke.
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#125 Apr 18 2011 at 11:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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Every time someone mentions Reagan it reminds me of this Family Guy clip.
#126 Apr 18 2011 at 12:03 PM Rating: Good
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Every time someone mentions reagan, it makes me think of the last three posts in this thread.
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