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Libyan No-Fly ZoneFollow

#1 Mar 09 2011 at 12:53 PM Rating: Good
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It is my belief that President Obama should take a firmer stance in supporting a potential no-fly zone in Libya. I'm not saying to start firing missiles this afternoon, but strongly supporting the French-British proposal would be a start. I do see that the Enterprise has moved from the N. Arabian Sea into the Red Sea for "maritime security" which gives me some hope that it's being prepared to move back into the Mediterranean. Still, I'd like to see a stronger stance on it made soon.

I've heard conflicting reports on rebel requests for such assistance and do think the action itself should be dependent upon such a request.
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#2 Mar 09 2011 at 1:20 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
It is my belief that President Obama should take a firmer stance in supporting a potential no-fly zone in Libya. I'm not saying to start firing missiles this afternoon, but strongly supporting the French-British proposal would be a start. I do see that the Enterprise has moved from the N. Arabian Sea into the Red Sea for "maritime security" which gives me some hope that it's being prepared to move back into the Mediterranean. Still, I'd like to see a stronger stance on it made soon.

I've heard conflicting reports on rebel requests for such assistance and do think the action itself should be dependent upon such a request.

So long as we're not putting U.S. troops at risk over a local civil war I'm all for it.
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#3 Mar 09 2011 at 1:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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I suppose there's always "risk" although some sources say most of the dirty work of removing the anti-aircraft infrastructure can be handled with sub-launched missiles and drones. Eventually, you'll probably have someone in a jet flying over Libya though.
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#4 Mar 09 2011 at 1:30 PM Rating: Good
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You really want to adopt another muslim country?

You're all heart!
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#5 Mar 09 2011 at 1:49 PM Rating: Good
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I agree with paulsol - we should help Gaddafi bomb the rebels.

It's what Blair would have wanted.
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#6 Mar 09 2011 at 4:50 PM Rating: Good
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This could all be solved by diplomacy. By which I mean the work of a few intel operatives in exchange for certain preferential treatment by new leadership.
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#7 Mar 09 2011 at 5:05 PM Rating: Good
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Timelordwho wrote:
By which I mean the work of a few intel operatives in exchange for certain preferential treatment by new leadership.


It's worked so well in the past...
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#8 Mar 09 2011 at 5:20 PM Rating: Good
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TirithRR the Eccentric wrote:
Timelordwho wrote:
By which I mean the work of a few intel operatives in exchange for certain preferential treatment by new leadership.


It's worked so well in the past...


It's cheap and by the time it stops working there is a new business partner ready to step up.
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#9 Mar 09 2011 at 6:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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Someone let Doc Brown known that the Libyans really need that plutonium back.
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#10 Mar 09 2011 at 6:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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Shaowstrike the Shady wrote:
Someone let Doc Brown known that the Libyans really need that plutonium back.
On a related note, I like to imagine the entire Libyan army consists of guys with rocket launchers driving Microbuses.
#11 Mar 09 2011 at 8:19 PM Rating: Default
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Am I the only one who keeps reading the title as "******* No-Fly Zone"?
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#12 Mar 09 2011 at 8:20 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Am I the only one who keeps reading the title as "******* No-Fly Zone"?


Yes
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#13 Mar 09 2011 at 9:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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This is all going to end up with another sunni based sharia law state, and someday we're going to look back fondly and remember the days when the crackpot clotheshorse was all we had to worry about.
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#14 Mar 09 2011 at 9:41 PM Rating: Default
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Am I the only one that just doesn't give a **** about Libya? It's a large expanse of desert with fewer people than the population of New York city. As long as they don't interfere with shipping in the Med or stop selling us their precious oil, the rest of the world should let them fight it out and then make nice with whichever side wins. If the winning side doesn't want to make nice, then is the time to get involved.

Edited, Mar 9th 2011 10:42pm by Turin
#15 Mar 09 2011 at 9:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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Turin wrote:
As long as they don't interfere with shipping in the Med or stop selling us their precious oil, the rest of the world should let them fight it out and then make nice with whichever side wins. If the winning side doesn't want to make nice, then is the time to get involved.

Of course, when all the oil infrastructure gets blown up while deciding which side wins, this might affect how much precious oil you get.
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#16 Mar 09 2011 at 9:57 PM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
Turin wrote:
As long as they don't interfere with shipping in the Med or stop selling us their precious oil, the rest of the world should let them fight it out and then make nice with whichever side wins. If the winning side doesn't want to make nice, then is the time to get involved.

Of course, when all the oil infrastructure gets blown up while deciding which side wins, this might affect how much precious oil you get.


All they have over there is oil and sand. While I'm sure there are plenty of lesser educated folk just in it for the slogans and the fighting, I don't think the leaders of either side are so short sighted as to believe they could get by without said infrastructure. If left to their own devices, I don't think their oil industry would suffer much damage. It's only when outsiders get involved that it will start to be in any real danger.
#17 Mar 09 2011 at 10:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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Turin wrote:
While I'm sure there are plenty of lesser educated folk just in it for the slogans and the fighting, I don't think the leaders of either side are so short sighted as to believe they could get by without said infrastructure. If left to their own devices, I don't think their oil industry would suffer much damage.

No reason to think that either side, when faced with losing, would go to a scorched earth policy of blowing that stuff up, huh? I mean, if Gaddafi senses he's losing, he sure wouldn't want to hurt Libya or anything before he's hung from a tree.

That said, I'm sure you're far from the only person who doesn't care what happens in Libya.
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#18 Mar 09 2011 at 10:30 PM Rating: Decent
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AshOnMyTomatoes wrote:
Shaowstrike the Shady wrote:
Someone let Doc Brown known that the Libyans really need that plutonium back.
On a related note, I like to imagine the entire Libyan army consists of guys with rocket launchers driving Microbuses.

Actually, that's the rebels. And they seem to be doing pretty well.

Though I'm sure a few well-placed cruise missiles would be appreciated.
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#19 Mar 09 2011 at 11:16 PM Rating: Good
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paulsol wrote:
You really want to adopt another muslim country?

You're all heart!
Yes, we get it, you'd rather we left a genocidal maniac in power in Iraq and wish to continue ignoring any good done because the war was a ************

As far as Libya goes--any call to action has to be considered extremely carefully, of course. Gadaffi will fall relatively soon; it's merely a matter of damage control. I support the no-fly zone.
#20 Mar 09 2011 at 11:29 PM Rating: Default
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LeWoVoc wrote:
paulsol wrote:
You really want to adopt another muslim country?

You're all heart!
Yes, we get it, you'd rather we left a genocidal maniac in power in Iraq and wish to continue ignoring any good done because the war was a cluster@#%^.
Smiley: rolleyes

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it's merely a matter of damage control.
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LeWoVoc wrote:
I support the no-fly zone.
You support bombing the airports, AA emplacements, destruction of fuelling, maintainence and base infrastructure and all the other things that that would involve? Eventually you would have US pilots getting shot at and prolly shot down too....All for....What exactly? So gadaafi can drive over civilians with tanks instead? Whats the difference? Its an African problem in an african country. Let the aFricans sort it out.

Unless you havn't noticed, the Libyans have asked the Euros and the Yanks to keep the **** out of it.

Its not your problem. Why do you feel the need to become involved?
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#21 Mar 09 2011 at 11:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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paulsol wrote:
Unless you havn't noticed, the Libyans have asked the Euros and the Yanks to keep the @#%^ out of it.

EuroNews wrote:
At a news conference in the Libyan city of Benghazi the Interim National Council has rejected any negotiation with Muammar Gaddafi and called for a UN no fly zone over the north African country.

From there Francesca Cicardi reports.

“The Libyan revolutionary government asked again for international aid, and said that any help will be welcomed, even military,” she said.

“Rebels confirmed they have had contact with foreign countries but didn’t specify which ones. They hope that their diplomatic representatives are speaking with EU governments and are hoping to get their backing.

“The rebels keep on asking for a no-fly zone and in the news conference made a point of thanking the Gulf states for supporting this option. It’s still uncertain how to put it in place, as the rebels reject any presence of foreign troops in Libya.”
Belfast Telegraph wrote:
As Colonel Gaddafi's forces carried out bloody assaults on rebel-held towns yesterday, the question from many Libyans was simple: Why is the West failing to offer help in our desperate time of need?
[...]
The Benghazi-based rebel leadership has called for a no-fly zone and airstrikes against the regime. Former justice minister Abdel Jalil, one of its leading members who yesterday had a price put on his head by the regime, said that the West must “help to protect Libya's people from Gaddafi's assault and help put an end to his war”.

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#22 Mar 10 2011 at 12:18 AM Rating: Good
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I don't really see how the rebels are winning. They seem to be doing the other thing.

You know, losing.
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#23 Mar 10 2011 at 4:08 AM Rating: Good
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Half the problem is they can't seem to decide on what help they want. They want outside help to get involved without getting involved. For every person there asking why nobody is helping you have another telling us not to interfere.

Pretty much why everyone is just hanging back for now.

The only danger I can think of is first Tunisia, then Egypt, now Libya... Who next? Can't help them all at the same time.

Additional Note: Just read a BBC report that a few of their reporters were detained and tortured. Poke the hive long enough with a stick and the wasps will come out and sting you.

Edited, Mar 10th 2011 7:53am by Xakz
#24 Mar 10 2011 at 4:13 AM Rating: Good
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Yeah, I'm sure BBC gunboats will be there any moment.
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#25 Mar 10 2011 at 5:30 AM Rating: Decent
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Sadly it doesn't take much to wind up our media, especially the government funded one.

Besides, an army on journalists might cure two problems in one. Fighting over there and our media here all gone in one go. Lovely.
#26 Mar 10 2011 at 6:42 AM Rating: Default
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paul wrote:
Its not your problem. Why do you feel the need to become involved?


Because that is what the western world does. Instead of focusing on our own problems we feel the need to extend our problems to other people in the notion of lending a helping hand.

Lewo wrote:
Yes, we get it, you'd rather we left a genocidal maniac in power in Iraq and wish to continue ignoring any good done because the war was a cluster@#%^.


You mean like you did in '91. But yea thats why you were in Iraq to get rid of Saddam. Or at least that was the second excuse after the American public found out that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. What reason are we on now?

Personally I say let them sort the **** out themselves. The last few civil wars the West jumped into didn't exactly pan out well for us.

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