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#402 Apr 08 2011 at 6:00 PM Rating: Decent
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I like huckabee, he realizes there is times to choose your battles, and when the Government of the most powerful nation in the world is about to **** the bed, its probably not a good time to ***** and moan because Susie Q can still get a lifeless fetus fished out of her with a coat hanger.

I hope he is the next GOP candidate, id become a US citizen just to vote for him.
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#403 Apr 08 2011 at 6:06 PM Rating: Good
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rdmcandie wrote:
I like huckabee, he realizes there is times to choose your battles, and when the Government of the most powerful nation in the world is about to sh*t the bed, its probably not a good time to ***** and moan because Susie Q can still get a lifeless fetus fished out of her with a coat hanger.

I hope he is the next GOP candidate, id become a US citizen just to vote for him.

From your lips, to the RNCs' ears.
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#404 Apr 08 2011 at 9:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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Budget crisis averted. A short term Continuing Resolution to fund the government for another week with $2B in cuts. Then another $36.5B (total of $38.5B) in cuts for the rest of the year. Policy riders for abortion, defunding the health care bill and the EPA are dropped (plus others I assume but those were the big ones). Deeper cuts than the Democrats came in with but some of those were to defense spending that wasn't originally on the GOP menu.

Edit: Reid will allow a separate vote on the policy riders in the Senate. Obviously, all are expected to fail.

Edited, Apr 8th 2011 11:55pm by Jophiel
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#405 Apr 08 2011 at 11:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Ahh so the idiots managed to agree on something I am impressed. Several Billion concession from the Dems, and dropping stupid tacked on **** from the GOP, why was this not done a week ago/month ago. Honestly, its like children in a school yard playing tag, and no one wants to be it.
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#406 Apr 09 2011 at 12:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Scuttlebutt is that they're reaching an agreement of around $38B in cuts without the major policy riders.
Scuttlebutt from more liberal sources reporting what they're offering? Lol!

Lolololololroflomghahahahaha!!!!

Silly "liberal sources"!
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#407 Apr 09 2011 at 2:34 AM Rating: Decent
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rdmcandie wrote:
when the Government of the most powerful nation in the world is about to sh*t the bed

Somewhat of a tangent, but I've been listening to commentary on the situation from pundits outside the U.S., and the general mood seems to be that of utter befuddlement and bemusement. That a national government might be shutdown in such a way is such entirely absurd to them because many other governments have parliamentary systems where the separation of powers is not so strong and thus it is harder for one group to block another (such as different parties control different branches or even splitting the Congress), because many other governments have fallback that kick into place should they fall to pass a budget, and because they can't understand how what the parties are fighting over could be so important that it'd be worth shutting down the government rather than capitulating.
#408 Apr 09 2011 at 8:11 AM Rating: Default
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Canada has a parliamentary system, our government is currently nonexistent. The budget failed to pass, and we get to have an election. On the positive side though, government employees outside of Parliament still have their jobs, and still get paid.
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#409 Apr 09 2011 at 8:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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rdmcandie wrote:
Canada has a parliamentary system, our government is currently nonexistent. The budget failed to pass, and we get to have an election. On the positive side though, government employees outside of Parliament still have their jobs, and still get paid.
Quick gbaji, here's an idiot who you can quote to back up your ridiculous understanding of parliamentary systems.

Edited, Apr 9th 2011 11:16am by Uglysasquatch
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#410 Apr 09 2011 at 9:13 AM Rating: Good
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
rdmcandie wrote:
Canada has a parliamentary system, our government is currently nonexistent. The budget failed to pass, and we get to have an election. On the positive side though, government employees outside of Parliament still have their jobs, and still get paid.
Quick gbaji, here's an idiot who you can quote to back up your ridiculous understanding of parliamentary systems.[/i]
If that was true, Belgium would be ****** right now.


More ****** than they are now anyway.
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#411 Apr 09 2011 at 12:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
rdmcandie wrote:
Canada has a parliamentary system, our government is currently nonexistent. The budget failed to pass, and we get to have an election. On the positive side though, government employees outside of Parliament still have their jobs, and still get paid.
Quick gbaji, here's an idiot who you can quote to back up your ridiculous understanding of parliamentary systems.

Edited, Apr 9th 2011 11:16am by Uglysasquatch



We have a caretaker government, which means pretty much everything is stopped. IE. non existent.
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#412 Apr 11 2011 at 6:09 PM Rating: Default
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rdmcandie wrote:
Ahh so the idiots managed to agree on something I am impressed. Several Billion concession from the Dems, and dropping stupid tacked on sh*t from the GOP, why was this not done a week ago/month ago.


I've already explained this several times in this thread btw. The reason it wasn't dropped was because by not dropping it, the GOP put the spending priorities of the Dems front and center, which will give them (the GOP) stronger leverage the next time the debate comes up. Um... Which will be in just a few months when the 2012 budget fight starts. When that next round of debates over cuts comes along, and those same riders are brought up again, it'll be the second time the American public sees the Dems going to bat over those programs even in the face of what will presumably have to be much larger across the board type cuts than were even considered in this CR.


The GOPs objective was to make sure the public saw this in order to establish that pattern of behavior. If they'd dropped the issue, the public wouldn't have seen it, and when the Dems fight tooth and nail for those pet projects in the next fight it will be better received than it will now. Now it'll be "They got those programs skipped during the last cuts, and they want to skip them again?". As I've been saying all along, it was never really about the exact dollar amount. This CR is relatively speaking, just peanuts compared to the bigger fight. Honestly, there almost could not have been a better result from the GOPs perspective.


Had the GOP "won" this fight, it would have made the hardliners happy, but would likely have cost position in the bigger budget fight that's ahead of us. The public perception would have been that the Dems already gave up something "big", so they should get more of a pass in the next round. Now, the perception will go the other way. Politically, it was a great use of what was otherwise a relatively unimportant bit of legislative loose end left over by the Democratic Congress from last year. Call it a nice gift to the GOP if you want. :)
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#413 Apr 11 2011 at 6:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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LOL

Well, it's good to see that you can take getting rolled and call it a great thing. :D

By the way, 65% said funding for Planned Parenthood should continue and 71% support keeping the EPA rules regulating greenhouse gases. No wonder people think that Obama & the Democrats were the ones who acted like a big boy vs the GOP by a 13 pt margin.

But, yeah... next time when they defend blocking those riders, it'll REALLY make everyone say "Grrrrr Democrats!"
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#414 Apr 11 2011 at 7:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
[quote=rdmcandie]
The GOPs objective was to make sure the public saw this in order to establish that pattern of behavior. If they'd dropped the issue, the public wouldn't have seen it, and when the Dems fight tooth and nail for those pet projects in the next fight it will be better received than it will now.


What the public saw was one of the following:

1. A Congress unable to reach a compromise and bickering like children, OR
2. The Republicans tacking on riders that completely went against their "Pledge to America," and made a mockery of their rhetoric that "only the budget matters!"

Not even my crazy conservative cousin tried to spin this as a "The Democrats are showing how much they cling to their social programs at the expense of us all, keh heh heh!" As she's almost as bad as Varus (but a bit more educated), I consider her a pretty good barometer for the "fringe" right element. The riders the Republicans tried to attach came off as petty- and were called for a social agenda by the religious right. It's true a lot of the Tea Party right-wing wanted the government to shut down - until they heard that the military would not get paid and social security checks could be delayed. But most moderate independents and Democrats saw it as the Republicans lied outright and then tucked their tails to reach a compromise.

IOW, what Joph said.
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#415 Apr 11 2011 at 9:06 PM Rating: Default
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LockeColeMA wrote:
gbaji wrote:

The GOPs objective was to make sure the public saw this in order to establish that pattern of behavior. If they'd dropped the issue, the public wouldn't have seen it, and when the Dems fight tooth and nail for those pet projects in the next fight it will be better received than it will now.


What the public saw was one of the following:

1. A Congress unable to reach a compromise and bickering like children, OR
2. The Republicans tacking on riders that completely went against their "Pledge to America," and made a mockery of their rhetoric that "only the budget matters!"


Those riders were not violations of that pledge. I already countered this argument earlier in this thread. The riders were specific to budget items and were contained in a budget bill. Where the **** else would you put spending restrictions except in such a bill? What the pledge was talking about was putting completely unrelated amendments into bills. That's not the case here.

Quote:
Not even my crazy conservative cousin tried to spin this as a "The Democrats are showing how much they cling to their social programs at the expense of us all, keh heh heh!"


Ah... The "No other conservatives are making the same argument, so you must be wrong!!" argument. Gotta love this one. No, really! But your crazy cousin is clearly the only representative of what conservatives think, right? Lol!


Quote:
I consider her a pretty good barometer for the "fringe" right element.


Which is why your argument is wrong. I'm not talking about the nutters, but those who understand how the coming budget battle is going to go. Overwhelmingly, this was about showing how willing the Dems were to put their pet projects ahead of things which most Americans think are more important.


Quote:
The riders the Republicans tried to attach came off as petty- and were called for a social agenda by the religious right.


That's an unfair characterization though. They are those programs which happen to meet the axe-cutting criteria of *both* the religious right and the fiscal right. They are clearly not necessary things for the federal government to spend money on *and* they happen to be overwhelmingly opposed by a largish segment of the population. Where else would you start if your objective is to cut unnecessary spending? With programs that are overwhelmingly popular with most Americans? Or those over which there is a degree of controversy anyway?


Quote:
It's true a lot of the Tea Party right-wing wanted the government to shut down - until they heard that the military would not get paid and social security checks could be delayed.


So you'll hear on the left leaning blogs and news sources. I can find just as many right leaning sources who'll claim with just as much certainty that the Dems wanted to shut down the government as well. We could play that finger pointing game all day and all night and not get anywhere, so how about we just ignore that as background rhetoric and focus on more factual aspects of the issue?

Quote:
But most moderate independents and Democrats saw it as the Republicans lied outright and then tucked their tails to reach a compromise.


Lied about what? And who are you talking about? You seem to be switching from tea party to republicans and pundits and politicians willy nilly in order to make your point. You do understand that there are many opinions on something like this, and not all of them are going to agree, even when they are nominally "on the same side"? I know that Joph loves to make hay out of this, but it's perfectly normal. Heck, it's healthy.


At the end of the day, this was a continuing resolution from last years budget, which the Dems failed to pass a bill on. This was "free cuts" from the point of view of the GOP. As I've been saying all along, the main point of this exercise is to gauge the Dems reaction to the important budget cut proposals which will be coming up and to set the stage for the inevitable fight which will occur. And on that aspect of this, they absolutely won. That they also got 38+ Billion dollars in cuts which they would not have gotten otherwise is pure bonus.

Edited, Apr 11th 2011 8:07pm by gbaji
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#416 Apr 11 2011 at 9:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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lulz
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#417 Apr 11 2011 at 11:59 PM Rating: Decent
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Ive noticed when Gbaji is fighting his way up a slippery slope he tends to use a lot of words ,Never retreat always reload I always say....



Edited, Apr 12th 2011 2:00am by rdmcandie
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#418 Apr 12 2011 at 12:32 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm not sure how refreshing this page is going to help.
#419 Apr 12 2011 at 3:59 AM Rating: Decent
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rdmcandie wrote:
I like huckabee, he realizes there is times to choose your battles, and when the Government of the most powerful nation in the world is about to sh*t the bed, its probably not a good time to ***** and moan because Susie Q can still get a lifeless fetus fished out of her with a coat hanger.

I hope he is the next GOP candidate, id become a US citizen just to vote for him.


Too bad Mike is an advocate for Americans being force-fed Christianity at gunpoint. Otherwise he might actually be a viable candidate.

#420 Apr 12 2011 at 6:20 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
lulz


Yeah, pretty much this Smiley: laugh

Edit: Just to counter your "counter":
Quote:
Those riders were not violations of that pledge. I already countered this argument earlier in this thread. The riders were specific to budget items and were contained in a budget bill. Where the **** else would you put spending restrictions except in such a bill?


A rider is an addition provision tacked onto a bill.
A rider is not tackling one issue at a time (as per the PtA).
A rider to win political points included in CR to allow the government to operate for a single week is NOT addressing the issue in the budget.

Are you actually being serious?

Know where you "put spending restrictions?" In the budget itself, not a CR to fund the government for a week - and especially not when it means shutting down the government and delaying pay to the military. The riders were a complete violation of the pledge - if you think shutting down Planned Parenthood, or restricting access to abortion in DC (completely legal, by the way) is not political, then you're just delusional. What part of "unpopular" and "must pass" legislation did you not quite understand?

Edited, Apr 12th 2011 10:58am by LockeColeMA
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#421 Apr 12 2011 at 6:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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Huh. In the "I did not know that" file, the total cuts announced from the Friday night compromise include the cuts already passed in the previous continuing resolutions. It wasn't $39B in new cuts on top of the cuts in the CRs.
The Hill wrote:
The total cuts, which span nearly the entire federal government, include $12 billion in cuts through three stopgap continuing resolutions and $28 billion in new cuts

That's even weaker than I thought, given that those previous cuts were all things Obama had been asking for (hence their use in the CRs as low-hanging fruit to get the CRs passed).
LockeColeMA wrote:
A rider to win political points included in CR to allow the government to operate for a single week is NOT addressing the issue in the budget.

They included a rider de-listing the Montana wolf from the Endangered Species list. Obviously a pressing budgetary concern.

Edited, Apr 12th 2011 7:44am by Jophiel
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#422 Apr 12 2011 at 7:58 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Those riders were not violations of that pledge. I already countered this argument earlier in this thread. The riders were specific to budget items and were contained in a budget bill.
Ahh, yeah. I wanted to comment on that earlier, but didn't. You didn't counter the point that was being made. What Joph had mentioned was that it was hypocritical to state that they wouldn't package unpopular riders to must pass bills to get them through. Not "unrelated." "Unpopular." ****, its on the ******* GOP web page, at the bottom. I'm in no way a political individual, but even I found the passage in like ten seconds. The abortion thing was an unpopular topic, which was tagged onto a bill that had to pass. So yeah, it was a violation to their own pledge. Not that it makes any difference. Like you, anything can be spun to make it seem legitimate. We all know a politician's job is to lie, let's not pretend otherwise.
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#423 Apr 12 2011 at 8:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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More to the point, they sat and crowed about their "Military Funding Bill" to "keep the troops paid in the event of a shut down because you DO love the troops RIGHT??" and tagged a completely unrelated abortion rider onto it. Strangely, no one ever called it the "Pay the Troops & Stop Abortion Bill". It was as blatant an example of quietly bundling unpopular legislation into a "must pass" measure as you'll find.
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#424varusword75, Posted: Apr 12 2011 at 9:09 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Jophed,
#425 Apr 12 2011 at 9:14 AM Rating: Good
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varusword75 wrote:
So what you're saying is it's ok when the dems do this but not the gop.
So what you're saying is that its okay as long as someone else did it as well, even after promising not to do it.
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#426varusword75, Posted: Apr 12 2011 at 9:14 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) lolgax,
#427varusword75, Posted: Apr 12 2011 at 9:16 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) lolgax,
#428 Apr 12 2011 at 9:19 AM Rating: Good
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varusword75 wrote:
No; I'm saying when you're in a fight to the death there are no rules.
Really? This is what you consider a fight to the death? Man, must be nice.
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#429varusword75, Posted: Apr 12 2011 at 9:24 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) lolgax,
#430 Apr 12 2011 at 9:29 AM Rating: Good
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So now you're saying its okay to do and say whatever you want as long is you get your way.
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#431 Apr 12 2011 at 9:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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varusword75 wrote:
So what you're saying is it's ok when the dems do this but not the gop.

I'm saying the GOP broke their pledge.

Are you denying this? You don't really need to cover it up with a bunch of "But... but... those guys... but..." Just admit it: The GOP lied when they pledged to America not to roll unpopular measures into "must pass" legislation.
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#432varusword75, Posted: Apr 12 2011 at 9:40 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) lolgax,
#433varusword75, Posted: Apr 12 2011 at 9:41 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Jophed,
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Nope, polling supported Planned Parenthood funding, EPA protections, etc. ****, there wasn't even majority support to defund the health care legislation.

C'mon... just admit it. The GOP lied.
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#435 Apr 12 2011 at 9:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
The GOP lied.


And endangered wolves almost died!
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#436 Apr 12 2011 at 9:46 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
The GOP lied.
But lying is okay as long as you get your way, Joph!
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#437 Apr 12 2011 at 9:54 AM Rating: Good
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Looking at the list of possible gop candidates is scary as ****. I might have to end up getting my EU passport in order.
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#438varusword75, Posted: Apr 12 2011 at 10:01 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Jophed,
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varusword75 wrote:
They didn't lie.

They did. Kind of funny to hear you scream about Obama though rather than admit it. Keep it up :)
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#440varusword75, Posted: Apr 12 2011 at 10:02 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Ailitard,
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Ailitardif, Star Breaker wrote:
Looking at the list of possible gop candidates is scary as ****. I might have to end up getting my EU passport in order.

Trump says he'll run as an independent if he doesn't win the GOP primary!
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#442varusword75, Posted: Apr 12 2011 at 10:04 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Jophed,
#443 Apr 12 2011 at 10:08 AM Rating: Good
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Most Americans feel both parties are jokes.
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#444 Apr 12 2011 at 10:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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varusword75 wrote:
I get that you have to shift attention away...

Shift attention? We were discussing how the GOP lied and then you started screaming about Obama. I don't think you understand what "shift attention" means.
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#445varusword75, Posted: Apr 12 2011 at 10:36 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Jophed,
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varusword75 wrote:
the GOP lied

Yes, I know. I was wondering why you were trying to change the topic to Obama rather than admit this simple fact.
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#447 Apr 12 2011 at 10:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
varusword75 wrote:
the GOP lied

Yes, I know. I was wondering why you were trying to change the topic to Obama rather than admit this simple fact.


Speaking of the GOP lying, the clip of Senator Jon Kyl (R-AZ) on the 8th about Planned Parenthood and abortion is HILARIOUS. The section on wikipedia:
Quote:
On April 8, 2011, Kyl spoke on the Senate floor and claimed that performing abortions is "well over 90 percent of what Planned Parenthood does." Planned Parenthood responded that 90 percent of its services are preventative, and only 3 percent are abortion-related. A spokesperson for Kyl later claimed the senator’s remark "was not intended to be a factual statement but rather to illustrate that Planned Parenthood, an organization that receives millions in taxpayer dollars, does subsidize abortions."


Apparently his office also failed to note that federal funding to PP, by law, cannot go to the abortion procedure. Man, it takes guts to blatantly lie on the floor of the Senate Smiley: lol
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#448 Apr 12 2011 at 10:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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varusword75 wrote:
Which is why the Dems were destroyed in last years elections and the same reason they're going to lose big again this year.

Political Wire wrote:
A new Public Policy Polling survey finds that House Republicans "have fallen so far out of favor with the American public that it's entirely possible Democrats could take control of the House back next year."

Key findings: 43% of voters think that House Republicans are doing a worse job now than the Democrats did, compared to only 36% who think the GOP has brought an improvement while 19% think things are about the same.

Stunningly, independent voters now say they'd vote Democratic for the House by a 42% to 33% margin, representing a 28 point reversal in a span of just five months.

Ready "Liberal media!!" tear-duct guns in 5... 4... 3... 2... GO!! GOGOGOGO!!!!
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#449 Apr 12 2011 at 10:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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LockeColeMA wrote:
Quote:
A spokesperson for Kyl later claimed the senator’s remark "was not intended to be a factual statement but rather to illustrate that Planned Parenthood, an organization that receives millions in taxpayer dollars, does subsidize abortions."

What's a little hyperbole in the public record while smearing an organization you dislike?
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#450 Apr 12 2011 at 11:06 AM Rating: Good
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Hey, it was only a margin of error of like 87%. He was close.

Edited, Apr 12th 2011 1:07pm by lolgaxe
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#451 Apr 12 2011 at 11:23 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Hey, it was only a margin of error of like 87%. He was close.

Edited, Apr 12th 2011 1:07pm by lolgaxe


87%? I guess that makes it one of the more precise statistics used by the republicans.

I think at this point we are keeping republicans around just to see what they say next.
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