Forum Settings
       
Reply To Thread

Barack Obama will win the 2012 electionFollow

#52 Mar 01 2011 at 10:18 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
varusword75 wrote:
If unemployment is still hovering around 10% I bet 25$ that Obama doesn't win re-election.
But Varus previously wrote:
What a cop out. It's either you think he will be the next president or he won't.

I already bet that he's going to win re-election. Why the caveats, Varus? Too chickenshit? Yeah, you are.

Come on... a clean vote for $50. Either he wins or he doesn't.

Edited, Mar 1st 2011 10:19am by Jophiel
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#53varusword75, Posted: Mar 01 2011 at 10:20 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Tare,
#54 Mar 01 2011 at 10:22 AM Rating: Good
We Does Not Hugglez
*****
10,245 posts
Crack kills, Peaches.
____________________________
I had a very witty signature once, but apparently it offended the sensibilities of some of the frailer constitutions that frequent this particular internet message board.

[The rest of this message has been censored and I can't tell you what I actually think of you]
#55 Mar 01 2011 at 10:22 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
Democrats will gain seats in the House (though not retake it for at least another cycle) and hold the Senate in a 50/50 split with Biden breaking the ties.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#56varusword75, Posted: Mar 01 2011 at 10:24 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Jophed,
#57 Mar 01 2011 at 10:25 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
Because if you're too scared to bet $50, you sure as **** won't pay up $1,000.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#58varusword75, Posted: Mar 01 2011 at 10:37 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Jophed,
#59 Mar 01 2011 at 10:42 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
varusword75 wrote:
If you're to much of a p*ssy to accept then just say so.

Are you willing to pay the escrow fees and put the money up front?
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#60varusword75, Posted: Mar 01 2011 at 10:49 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Joph,
#61 Mar 01 2011 at 10:53 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
varusword75 wrote:
No

Hahaha... didn't think so. If it makes you feel better, Flea would have never let me bet a grand but it was nice that you blinked first.
Quote:
But I will take the 50$ bet that Obama's a one timer.

Ok, deal.
Quote:
Are you willing to bet 50$ that the GOP doesn't re-take control of the senate this year?

**** no. I'm not nearly that optimistic about my own fortune-telling in that regard.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#62 Mar 01 2011 at 11:31 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
Just for extra lulz...
gbaji wrote:
Actually, I was right about a lot of my predictions. I just underestimated the degree of gullibility of the US public. For example. I predicted that Obama didn't really intent to build nuclear power plants, despite him suggesting so in order to make himself appear more moderate.

Energy Collective Blog wrote:
On Feb 23 a Missouri House committee endorsed legislation that would allow utilities to charge customers for a portion of the costs of building a new nuclear power station.

On Feb 21 an Indian Senate committee gave a green light to encourage utilities to build new nuclear reactors and to recover some of the costs while the plant is being built.

In Iowa a Senate committee heard testimony from a utility executive that a small modular reactor design might make sense for the next nuclear plant in the state.

These actions come as the Obama Administration introduced a Department of Energy budget for 2012 that calls for an additional $36 billion in federal loan guarantees.
Bloomberg wrote:
President Barack Obama’s 2012 budget almost triples U.S. loan guarantees for nuclear power-plant construction, funds development of a new breed of smaller reactors and spends more on “breakthrough” energy research.
[...]
A program that guarantees as much as $18.5 billion in loans for construction of nuclear reactors would expand by $36 billion in 2012, to backstop $54.5 billion in lending. An initiative to develop designs for “small modular reactors” would get $67 million. Such reactors would be about a third the size of those now used by U.S. power companies, according to the department.
The Hill wrote:
President Obama’s fiscal year 2012 budget outlines a plan for reviving the country’s nuclear power industry, calling for $36 billion in government-backed loan guarantees for new nuclear reactors and setting aside more than $800 million for nuclear energy research.

Obama has said that nuclear power is a key component of the country’s energy future. In his State of the Union speech last month, he outlined a plan to generate 80 percent of the country’s electricity from low-carbon sources including nuclear by 2035.
[...]
Republicans, for their part, have put a so-called “nuclear renaissance” in the United States at the top of their agenda, outlining plans to streamline regulatory oversight at the Nuclear Regulatory Commission and build a series of scaled-down, “mini-nukes” that would cost less and take less time to build.

Obama’s FY2012 budget request, which was sent to Congress Monday, revives a similar provision in Obama’s fiscal year 2011 budget request that would provide $36 billion in additional loan guarantee authority for nuclear power. This would add to the $18 billion in nuclear loan guarantee authority the Department of Energy already has. [...] Obama also laid out plans to conduct research on “mini-nukes". His budget sets aside $853 million for nuclear energy research. A White House fact sheet on the proposal says the research will focus in part on "mini-nukes," known as small modular reactors.

10 for 10, Gbaji!

Edited, Mar 1st 2011 11:33am by Jophiel
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#63 Mar 01 2011 at 6:31 PM Rating: Default
Encyclopedia
******
31,748 posts
Jophiel wrote:
Just for extra lulz...


Are the lulz that you actually believe that his carefully worded statements really mean he's for nuclear power, or that you know that they don't, but you'll gladly perpetuate the lie that they are? Seems like I've seen this game before. ;)

Quote:
On Feb 21 an Indian Senate committee gave a green light to encourage utilities to build new nuclear reactors and to recover some of the costs while the plant is being built.

In Iowa a Senate committee heard testimony from a utility executive that a small modular reactor design might make sense for the next nuclear plant in the state.


Neither of which actually result in nuclear power plants being built. More talk.

Quote:
These actions come as the Obama Administration introduced a Department of Energy budget for 2012 that calls for an additional $36 billion in federal loan guarantees.


Yes. That's wonderful. We've had this discussion before. Loan guarantees don't mean anything if no one cuts through the 500 layers of red tape and actually uses that money to build a nuclear power plant.

Bloomberg wrote:
President Barack Obama’s 2012 budget almost triples U.S. loan guarantees for nuclear power-plant construction, funds development of a new breed of smaller reactors and spends more on “breakthrough” energy research.


First part is the same as the bit I just responded to, funding "development" doesn't get us anywhere unless said development actually results in a final product, and the latter section can mean anything at all.

The Hill wrote:
President Obama’s fiscal year 2012 budget outlines a plan for reviving the country’s nuclear power industry, calling for $36 billion in government-backed loan guarantees for new nuclear reactors and setting aside more than $800 million for nuclear energy research.


There's the same "loan guarantees" again. What is that? Four repeats of the same thing? What else has he done? Where's the promise to cut through red tape? Where's the promise to build X number of reactors by Y amount of time? He hasn't made such a promise. When politicians use non-committal language, that's code for "I don't really want to do this, but I want to get votes from people who do". Surely you know this by now, right?

Quote:
Obama has said that nuclear power is a key component of the country’s energy future. In his State of the Union speech last month, he outlined a plan to generate 80 percent of the country’s electricity from low-carbon sources including nuclear by 2035.


Except he didn't say that first sentence in the SotU speech. That's editorial from the author of the piece. And the second sentence, once again, includes nuclear in a list of other power sources he wants. Want to guess how much priority nuclear will get? But for the record, here's what he actually said:

Obama, in the state of the union speech wrote:
Now, clean energy breakthroughs will only translate into clean energy jobs if businesses know there will be a market for what they're selling. So tonight, I challenge you to join me in setting a new goal: by 2035, 80% of America's electricity will come from clean energy sources. Some folks want wind and solar. Others want nuclear, clean coal, and natural gas. To meet this goal, we will need them all – and I urge Democrats and Republicans to work together to make it happen.


Notice the incredibly non-committal language. He doesn't say what he wants, or what he'll pursue. He hides the language by talking about what "some people" want and what "other people" want. Um.... What does he want? What does he intend? Could he be a little more of a fence sitter? All he's really saying in this paragraph is "You guys get together and figure out what will work". He doesn't commit to anything.

Kinda not leading much, is it? And absolutely does not give me any confidence at all that he's pro-nuclear power at all. And it's not shocking why. His strongest and most fervent supporters don't come from the middle. They come from the far and even fringe left. The people who hate nuclear power and hate oil and hate coal. That's his base. Everyone else he has to trick into thinking he's not so far left in order to get them to support him.


He managed to do it in 2008. And if he can trick them again in 2012, he'll win again. And at some level, I suspect you know this, which is why you go along with the vague language. It's in your best interest to pretend that he really does intend to follow an agenda that the middle will like, because you know that he really wont and the best way to get him re-elected so he can pursue the agenda you want is to help him lie.


It's the same thing I said back in 2008. If you're looking for a prediction, you should recall that I said we were facing a Jimmy Carter moment with Obama. And guess what? That's exactly what we got.
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#64 Mar 01 2011 at 6:46 PM Rating: Good
Soulless Internet Tiger
******
34,698 posts
Spin baby, spin!
____________________________
Donate. One day it could be your family.
Need a hotel at a great rate? More hotels being added weekly.

An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. Victor Hugo

#65 Mar 01 2011 at 7:25 PM Rating: Good
*****
10,777 posts
Hey Joph, if I put up $75 to cover gbaji, Totem and Moe, would that count?

I just want to make sure that this thread comes back with a vengeance. It's worth $75 to me.
#66 Mar 01 2011 at 7:38 PM Rating: Good
Encyclopedia
******
31,748 posts
Uglysasquatch wrote:
Spin baby, spin!


No spin at all. Just an awareness of how politicians speak. As a general rule, if a politician uses language that can possibly be interpreted to mean more than one thing, you are foolish to assume that it means any one specific thing. Obama is nearly pathological at using word choice that sounds at first to say one thing, but when you go back and parse what was actually said, could in fact be interpreted multiple ways. And he's been caught doing the whole "what I meant was..." bit.

Anyone recall the whole NAFTA backtrack he did during the primary? Every single person in the audience he spoke to believed he had said that he was absolutely 100% opposed to NAFTA. But then, just mere days later, it turns out that he's not opposed to NAFTA at all. And when asked about that, he said that he hadn't actually said what the audience thought he had. And when you checked the transcripts? Sure enough, he hadn't actually said he was opposed to NAFTA, he just said a bunch of words that made it sound to the audience like he had.


I remember this because Joph was one of the loudest voices attempting to argue both that he hadn't lied or deceived anyone *and* that he said exactly what he said and that anyone who read into his words to mean more than that were dummies. Well. When I apply Joph's same argument to Obama's statements regarding nuclear power, I once again see a bunch of words designed to make people think he's in support of nuclear power, but no firm statements about his own position on the issue.


The funny thing is that if tomorrow Obama announced that he'd never really been in favor of nuclear power at all, Joph would be the first one to insist that anyone who thought he was should have known better because "he didn't actually say he was for nuclear power!". Just like Joph did about NAFTA. So forgive me if I don't buy Joph's arguments here.


Obama has never committed to *anything* in terms of nuclear power. At the end of the day, that's the fact that matters.
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#67 Mar 01 2011 at 7:55 PM Rating: Good
Soulless Internet Tiger
******
34,698 posts
Quote:
No spin at all
Yes, complete spin. Had a Republican done any of that, you'd be touting it as proof of what they've accomplished and not pointing out that despite funds being put in place, no one's taken advantage of them yet.
____________________________
Donate. One day it could be your family.
Need a hotel at a great rate? More hotels being added weekly.

An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. Victor Hugo

#68 Mar 01 2011 at 8:19 PM Rating: Good
Encyclopedia
******
31,748 posts
Uglysasquatch wrote:
Quote:
No spin at all
Yes, complete spin. Had a Republican done any of that, you'd be touting it as proof of what they've accomplished and not pointing out that despite funds being put in place, no one's taken advantage of them yet.


If we were talking about a Republican there wouldn't be any question as to said persons position on nuclear power though. Maybe you think it's unfair, but given the default liberal position regarding nuclear power, I'm going to place a slightly higher burden on a Democrat if he wants to convince me that he's actually "for nuclear power". And unless he does, I'm going to assume that he's just playing word games to try to avoid losing votes on the issue.

And I'm right to do that. Just as Joph might be a bit more skeptical of a Republican suggesting that he's for increased social spending while speaking in front of a group of poor people. He would also be foolish not to parse the language to see what was really said and what was really committed to. And if all the Republican did was talk about "investigating ways to help families in need", He'd suspect that was whitewash, right? And if he followed that with a promise to "make American's economic fortunes brighter, for both rich and poor", I somehow doubt that Joph would fail to notice that he doesn't say how much brighter for the poor compared to the rich.

In fact, I'm quite sure that in that case, Joph would be one of the first to make that exact point. But somehow magically, he refuses to see similarly vague language when spoken by a politician he likes. Shocking!
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#69 Mar 01 2011 at 8:50 PM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
Hahahahah....

Yeah, 10 for 10 when you just ignore everything you that doesn't match what you want to believe :D

Not even going to bother going in circles with you on it. My intent isn't some vain attempt to get you to admit that you're wrong, it's just to show everyone else how wrong you are. Mission accomplished.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#70 Mar 01 2011 at 8:51 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
****
9,997 posts
It amazes me how fragile and large gbaji's ego is that he has to construct these elaborate defense mechanisms to remain in denial about how utterly wrong he constantly is. Whereas most people would try to save face or just admit their error, it's as if he compulsively attempts to rationalize away any cognitive dissonance in his favor by whatever means necessary, no matter how logically inconsistent.

You would be an interesting research subject, gbaji. Maybe studying you would help find the cure for, well, being like you.
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#71 Mar 01 2011 at 8:54 PM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
Just for extra fun, here's the only thread where we discuss NAFTA during the campaign. Somehow it's not really how Gbaji says it happened but more like how he wishes to remember it.

Edited, Mar 1st 2011 8:59pm by Jophiel
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#72 Mar 02 2011 at 7:14 AM Rating: Excellent
Annoying Ass
ZAM Administrator
Avatar
*****
11,969 posts
Jophiel wrote:
Just for extra fun, here's the only thread where we discuss NAFTA during the campaign. Somehow it's not really how Gbaji says it happened but more like how he wishes to remember it.

Edited, Mar 1st 2011 8:59pm by Jophiel


Huh, seems like Obama's perfectly clear on what he wanted with NAFTA (we'll renegotiate it using the the threat of opting out as leverage), and it's not what gbaji was saying (he was for it and against it, he flip-flops!). gbaji's citation in the old thread wasn't even a "for it or against it" question; it was a "will we leave it?" question, to which Obama responded as I said before (we'll use the threat of leaving as leverage). Go figure - and this from the guy who rails against polls for not asking the right questions.
Quote:
Spin baby, spin!

This.
Quote:
My intent isn't some vain attempt to get you to admit that you're wrong, it's just to show everyone else how wrong you are. Mission accomplished.

And this.
Smiley: lol
____________________________
Retired News Writer for the ZAM Network
WoW - Aureliano the Insane - level 90 Druid on Sen'Jin
Nanaoki - level 90 Mage on Sen'Jin
#73varusword75, Posted: Mar 02 2011 at 8:15 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) So where are all the new nuclear plants? Has even 1 been started?
#74 Mar 02 2011 at 8:41 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
varusword75 wrote:
So where are all the new nuclear plants? Has even 1 been started?

Nope. But then the federal government doesn't build nuclear plants. The DoE provides loan guarantees to allow utilities to build power plants and partially mitigate the cost of expensive private financing. What Obama has done, and which is more than any president has done for around the past 30 years, is actually have the DoE award these guarantees so projects can get started.
Wall Street Journal wrote:
WASHINGTON — Touting nuclear energy as a critical component of the effort to confront climate change and meet the U.S.'s energy needs, President Barack Obama announced Tuesday roughly $8 billion in government-loan guarantees for Southern Co. to break ground on a new nuclear-power plant in Georgia.
[...]
The loan guarantee, reported last week by Dow Jones Newswires, would pave the way for the first new nuclear-power plant in the U.S. in almost 30 years.
[...]
Under the loan-guarantee program, the government promises to assume a company's debt obligations if it defaults on debt incurred for the projects. Because new nuclear reactors cost billions of dollars to develop, the loan guarantees can be a key step for energy companies that plan to undertake such projects.

Total cost of Southern Co.'s new units is projected to be around $14 billion. Of that amount, the share of the company's Georgia power subsidiary is to be around $6.1 billion. Remaining ownership of the two reactors is split among Oglethorpe Power Corp., the Municipal Electric Authority of Georgia, or MEAG Power, and Dalton Utilities.


How many plants were built under Bush? How many under Bush Sr? How many under Reagan? How many loan guarantees did the Bush administration issue to start construction? OMG Republicans all hate nuclear power!!!

Edited, Mar 2nd 2011 8:42am by Jophiel
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#75varusword75, Posted: Mar 02 2011 at 8:55 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Jophed,
#76 Mar 02 2011 at 9:08 AM Rating: Excellent
We Does Not Hugglez
*****
10,245 posts
varusword75 wrote:
Jophed,

Quote:
Nope


That's all you had to say.


Too many syllables for you if he writes more, right?
____________________________
I had a very witty signature once, but apparently it offended the sensibilities of some of the frailer constitutions that frequent this particular internet message board.

[The rest of this message has been censored and I can't tell you what I actually think of you]
#77 Mar 02 2011 at 9:19 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
varusword75 wrote:
That's all you had to say.

Awww... you and Gbaji are made for each other.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#78varusword75, Posted: Mar 02 2011 at 9:21 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Moe,
#79 Mar 02 2011 at 10:05 AM Rating: Excellent
Annoying Ass
ZAM Administrator
Avatar
*****
11,969 posts
Hey Varus, if the government made the nuclear plants themselves, would you hail it as a success or more signs of the Obama administration taking over private business?
____________________________
Retired News Writer for the ZAM Network
WoW - Aureliano the Insane - level 90 Druid on Sen'Jin
Nanaoki - level 90 Mage on Sen'Jin
#80varusword75, Posted: Mar 02 2011 at 10:49 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Locked,
#81 Mar 02 2011 at 10:55 AM Rating: Good
Skelly Poker Since 2008
*****
16,065 posts
Sounds like there are about 30 in the works. Building a nuclear plant involves a ton of site research first, a ton of permitting and testing second, funding and material acquisition and finally building the thing and then getting it online.

Look here to see where they're going.
____________________________
Alma wrote:
Post and be happy!
#82 Mar 02 2011 at 11:24 AM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
******
21,739 posts
varusword75 wrote:
Locked,

Did I say the govn should build them? I know you can't read for sh*t but lately you've really digressed.
So you're saying the government should be forcing private businesses to build and maintain new nuclear plants? I thought you were against government intervention in private industry?

What's with the flip-flopping?
____________________________
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#83 Mar 02 2011 at 11:40 AM Rating: Good
****
7,810 posts
Elinda wrote:
Sounds like there are about 30 in the works. Building a nuclear plant involves a ton of site research first, a ton of permitting and testing second, funding and material acquisition and finally building the thing and then getting it online.

Look here to see where they're going.

When they break ground on the first one, I'll reconsider my skepticism.
____________________________
People don't like to be meddled with. We tell them what to do, what to think, don't run, don't walk. We're in their homes and in their heads and we haven't the right. We're meddlesome. ~River Tam

Sedao
#84varusword75, Posted: Mar 02 2011 at 1:10 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Kastigar,
#85 Mar 02 2011 at 1:36 PM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
******
21,739 posts
varusword75 wrote:
phil, elinda, and locked know there's literally a mountain of govn red tape they're just being obtuse. They also know Obama could streamline the process.
Of course there is, it's a fucking nuclear reactor. The government isn't going to just let anyone throw one together.
____________________________
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#86 Mar 02 2011 at 1:40 PM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
*****
11,999 posts
varusword75 wrote:
Kastigar,

Quote:
When they break ground on the first one, I'll reconsider my skepticism.


/nod


phil, elinda, and locked know there's literally a mountain of govn red tape they're just being obtuse. They also know Obama could streamline the process.



You stupid mother@#%^er. You don't want them to streamline the process, you want the process to adequately assess safety and other factors, not just slapping down reactors higgledy-piggledy. You actually slow the spread of nuclear power without adequate controls, by generating negative public sentiment and scaring investors. One bad reactor can ruin the industry for a good 10-20 years.

Edited, Mar 2nd 2011 2:41pm by Timelordwho
____________________________
Just as Planned.
#87varusword75, Posted: Mar 02 2011 at 1:49 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Timmy,
#88 Mar 02 2011 at 1:55 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
****
9,997 posts
Quote:
No you radical eco-whackos don't want them to streamline the process.

The federal govn has made it impossible to build new refineries or nuclear power plants. That's the problem.


So you think that the Obama administration concocted a scheme where they set up a process to provide loans to the development of nuclear power, but plan to not allow them to actually build. Looney.

You realize that plenty of liberals are pro-nuclear power, right?
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#89 Mar 02 2011 at 1:55 PM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
varusword75 wrote:
They also know Obama could streamline the process.

Got me there. Fuck. I thought I had somethin---

Oh... wait!

NRC.gov wrote:
PURPOSE:

To inform the Commission of staff actions that are being implemented in order to streamline the design certification rule (DCR) rulemaking process for new reactor designs. This paper does not address new commitments.

BACKGROUND:

Recently the nuclear industry has shown significant interest in licensing new reactors. The Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) has docketed one combined license (COL) application incorporating by reference the U.S. Advanced Boiling-Water Reactor, a previously certified design (Appendix A, “Design Certification Rule for the U.S. Advanced Boiling-Water Reactor,” to 10 CFR Part 52). Currently, 10 COL applications docketed by the NRC incorporate by reference designs that have been recently submitted to the NRC for certification, such as the U.S. Evolutionary Power Reactor, the U.S. Advanced Pressurized-Water Reactor, and the Economic Simplified Boiling-Water Reactor. In addition, six COL applications reference an amendment to the Advanced Passive 1000 (AP1000) design (Appendix D, “Design Certification Rule for the AP1000,” to 10 CFR Part 52). As a result, the staff is reviewing COL applications in parallel with the NRC review of the design certification (DC) applications being referenced.
The referenced DCR must be completed (i.e., the final rule published in the Federal Register) before the NRC can make a decision on the COL application referencing that DC. The DC schedule consists of: (1) the design review and issuance of a final safety evaluation report documenting the NRC’s safety conclusions related to the design; and (2) a rulemaking approved by the Commission that codifies that DC in the agency’s regulations. The review schedules for certain DCs and their reference COLs are projected to be nearly parallel, with the DCR being completed just before the completion of the COL hearing process and subsequent licensing decision. If the DCR is not issued by the time that the NRC is ready to make a decision on the COL application, the COL decision may, under certain circumstances, have to await the issuance of the final DCR. Based on this background the staff concluded that a rulemaking schedule shorter than the typical 24-month NRC rulemaking schedule would be of value for DCR rulemakings.

Streamlining the process for approving the AP1000 reactor? But I'm sure no one uses those silly thing!
Charlotte Business Journal wrote:
Vogtle, being built by Southern Co.’s Georgia Power Co., is the lead AP1000 project in the United States. Initial work has been done on the site, and the state has already approved the plant.


****, that Obama sure does hate nuclear power!
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#90 Mar 02 2011 at 1:58 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
*****
11,999 posts
varusword75 wrote:
Timmy,

Quote:
You stupid mother@#%^er. You don't want them to streamline the process


No you radical eco-whackos don't want them to streamline the process.

The federal govn has made it impossible to build new refineries or nuclear power plants. That's the problem.

Quote:
One bad reactor can ruin the industry for a good 10-20 years.


So can one fictional movie.



http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/16/magazine/16wwln-freakonomics-t.html


It probably didn't help that 3-mile island happened 12 days after the release of China Syndrome.

If you watch a movie that says a meltdown could render an area the size of Philadelphia uninhabitable and later that week hear on the news that a PA plant had just had a (minor) meltdown event, It's pretty common to be spooked.
____________________________
Just as Planned.
#91varusword75, Posted: Mar 02 2011 at 2:05 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Timmy,
#92 Mar 02 2011 at 2:16 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
*****
11,999 posts
varusword75 wrote:
Timmy,

Quote:
It's pretty common to be spooked.


For thirty years?



Well then there was Chernobyl. And yes, I think I put the timing at 10-20 plus whatever it takes to get a project ramped up again. Again, without these mitigating factors, we'd probably be in terrawatt+ power generation levels.
____________________________
Just as Planned.
#93 Mar 02 2011 at 2:17 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
****
9,997 posts
varusword75 wrote:
Timmy,

Quote:
It's pretty common to be spooked.


For thirty years?



Considering that most people I've talked to are in disbelief when I tell them that there were no casualties or even health concerns related to the Three Mile Island event, I'm really not surprised.

The funny thing is the ones who support nuclear power despite believing that it was a disaster.
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#94 Mar 02 2011 at 2:29 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
*****
11,999 posts
Kachi wrote:
The funny thing is the ones who support nuclear power despite believing that it was a disaster.


Depends how much they value damages caused by other energy industries at. Commercial nuclear power doesn't kill that many people.
____________________________
Just as Planned.
#95 Mar 02 2011 at 2:43 PM Rating: Good
Soulless Internet Tiger
******
34,698 posts
Quote:
You stupid mother@#%^er. You don't want them to streamline the process, you want the process to adequately assess safety and other factors, not just slapping down reactors higgledy-piggled
I'm all for just slapping one down higgledy-piggled in Knoxville.
____________________________
Donate. One day it could be your family.
Need a hotel at a great rate? More hotels being added weekly.

An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. Victor Hugo

#96 Mar 02 2011 at 3:09 PM Rating: Good
****
7,810 posts
Jophiel wrote:
varusword75 wrote:
They also know Obama could streamline the process.

Got me there. Fuck. I thought I had somethin---

Oh... wait!

NRC.gov wrote:
PURPOSE:

To inform the Commission of staff actions that are being implemented in order to streamline the design certification rule (DCR) rulemaking process for new reactor designs. This paper does not address new commitments.

BACKGROUND:

Recently the nuclear industry has shown significant interest in licensing new reactors. The Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) has docketed one combined license (COL) application incorporating by reference the U.S. Advanced Boiling-Water Reactor, a previously certified design (Appendix A, “Design Certification Rule for the U.S. Advanced Boiling-Water Reactor,” to 10 CFR Part 52). Currently, 10 COL applications docketed by the NRC incorporate by reference designs that have been recently submitted to the NRC for certification, such as the U.S. Evolutionary Power Reactor, the U.S. Advanced Pressurized-Water Reactor, and the Economic Simplified Boiling-Water Reactor. In addition, six COL applications reference an amendment to the Advanced Passive 1000 (AP1000) design (Appendix D, “Design Certification Rule for the AP1000,” to 10 CFR Part 52). As a result, the staff is reviewing COL applications in parallel with the NRC review of the design certification (DC) applications being referenced.
The referenced DCR must be completed (i.e., the final rule published in the Federal Register) before the NRC can make a decision on the COL application referencing that DC. The DC schedule consists of: (1) the design review and issuance of a final safety evaluation report documenting the NRC’s safety conclusions related to the design; and (2) a rulemaking approved by the Commission that codifies that DC in the agency’s regulations. The review schedules for certain DCs and their reference COLs are projected to be nearly parallel, with the DCR being completed just before the completion of the COL hearing process and subsequent licensing decision. If the DCR is not issued by the time that the NRC is ready to make a decision on the COL application, the COL decision may, under certain circumstances, have to await the issuance of the final DCR. Based on this background the staff concluded that a rulemaking schedule shorter than the typical 24-month NRC rulemaking schedule would be of value for DCR rulemakings.

Streamlining the process for approving the AP1000 reactor? But I'm sure no one uses those silly thing!
Charlotte Business Journal wrote:
Vogtle, being built by Southern Co.’s Georgia Power Co., is the lead AP1000 project in the United States. Initial work has been done on the site, and the state has already approved the plant.


****, that Obama sure does hate nuclear power!

And when ground is broken, I'll reverse my skepticism.
____________________________
People don't like to be meddled with. We tell them what to do, what to think, don't run, don't walk. We're in their homes and in their heads and we haven't the right. We're meddlesome. ~River Tam

Sedao
#97 Mar 02 2011 at 3:18 PM Rating: Good
Skelly Poker Since 2008
*****
16,065 posts
varusword75 wrote:
Kastigar,

Quote:
When they break ground on the first one, I'll reconsider my skepticism.


/nod


phil, elinda, and locked know there's literally a mountain of govn red tape they're just being obtuse. They also know Obama could streamline the process.

No, Obama has nothing to do with the process. For the most part the feds have given nuclear power the go ahead.

The local and state level governments are ones impacted and the ones that would require the bulk of the permitting. If it's lengthy it is necessarily so. Any kind of large energy facility would take years of planning, review, permitting and construction.

The danger of nuclear power is over-hyped. But we refine, transport and use lots and lots and lots of oil/gas/coal, so there is certainly more opportunity for accidental death. Using fossil fuels is messier than nuclear. Still there is the unknown. Radiation can be really uncontrollable stuff once it leaves it's containment.
____________________________
Alma wrote:
Post and be happy!
#98 Mar 02 2011 at 3:20 PM Rating: Good
Skelly Poker Since 2008
*****
16,065 posts
Uglysasquatch wrote:
Quote:
You stupid mother@#%^er. You don't want them to streamline the process, you want the process to adequately assess safety and other factors, not just slapping down reactors higgledy-piggled
I'm all for just slapping one down higgledy-piggled in Knoxville.
But it might cause a Teenage Mutant Ninja Varus!!
____________________________
Alma wrote:
Post and be happy!
#99 Mar 02 2011 at 3:25 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
****
9,997 posts
Quote:
Depends how much they value damages caused by other energy industries at. Commercial nuclear power doesn't kill that many people.


I'm referring to people who think that Three Mile Island was as bad as Chernobyl (very possibly confusing the two entirely). I think it might be difficult to argue that other energy industries contend with that level of damage were they hypothetically on the same playing field.
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#100 Mar 02 2011 at 3:31 PM Rating: Decent
Encyclopedia
******
31,748 posts
Jophiel wrote:
Just for extra fun, here's the only thread where we discuss NAFTA during the campaign. Somehow it's not really how Gbaji says it happened but more like how he wishes to remember it.


Huh?

gbaji wrote:
The problem is that Obama tends to speak in vague terms and allow the audience he's speaking to just assume that he agrees with the signs and slogans that they're holding. Certainly, there were a whole lot of Dems who voted for Obama in the primary based on the assumption that he did want to "end NAFTA".


Sounds exactly like what I said earlier in this thread. Obama uses vague language to allow the audience before him to assume a position without actually committing himself in any way. Where is the inconsistency? He stood in front of a very anti-NAFTA crowd during the primaries and spoke, and when the event was over, the crowd supported him because they thought he was anti-NAFTA and Clinton took a more middle ground position.

Did he "lie"? No. Because when you read the transcripts, he didn't actually say anything committal. But that's my point. He does this deliberately in order to appear to be saying what the audience wants to hear, but leaving him sufficient room to do something else entirely later. I'm saying that his language regarding nuclear power is the same thing. He does not commit to anything, so he's not taking a strong pro-nuclear stance. Period. You can jump up and down and insist that he is, but I'm not buying it.
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#101 Mar 02 2011 at 3:34 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
****
9,997 posts
As I recall, he campaigned pretty strongly to include nuclear power as a part of his energy policy. It was one of the few things that he and McCain agreed upon.
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 59 All times are in CDT