Senate Repeals DADTFollow

So, what you're saying is, there's a very, very strong possibility that the homosexual men in the shower are not checking the straight guys out because they aren't attracted to straight guys? I'll buy that. So there's no issue, right?



You seem to do this a lot. What you did was you specifically said to me that I am a bigot because I have stated that a man who feels uncomfortable showering with a homosexual man is a bigot. There was no "y'all" about it. You quoted me. You replied directly to me. I would like a more sincere apology.

And I'm right. A man being uncomfortable showering with a gay man is different than a man or woman being uncomfortable showering with someone of the opposite sex. I never once said nor implied that made anyone a bigot. That's been your line.

This is why I don't like dealing with people who are defensive.

Because

1. You do that thing where you lump everyone who has made the smallest slight against you in together, and it becomes impossible to to converse with you without being constantly forced to take responsibility for others' comments.

2. More importantly--you have zero interest in being wrong. It would have taken 5 seconds for you to think about Belkira's comments, go check to see that it was actually Ugly you were quoting and not Jophiel, and say "oops, minor mistake that really doesn't affect the core of any of my arguments." No, instead of doing the most basic research you automatically jump to the conclusion that Belkira was entirely wrong about something you invented for her to mean and responded to that instead. You are fully uninterested in being wrong about absolutely anything here. For you, contradictory facts are only things to be argued against and not things to be considered.

Edited, Jan 3rd 2011 10:45am by Allegory

Misattributing me for some other "liberal" poster? We have a Gbaji trifecta! :D

What Joph said.

Everybody's not Ugly.

A few changes does not equate to an entire new environment.

All true. I was just surprised that people were playing alma's game and trying to make a case based on anatomy, or whether or not gay dudes actually check out guys in the shower. I don't think that's the way to crack this one. It's almost a self-inflicted strawman.

My head's a little fuzzy today though. Apologies if I'm misunderstanding anything in this already-hard-enough-to-follow thread.

Edited, Jan 3rd 2011 1:04pm by Eske

So those homosexual men who are only attracted to other homosexual men are not an issue, then. So, I reiterate, where is your problem?



That's not how it works. When you're talking to someone and you insult them, you can't just pretend you weren't really talking about them. You know good and well who I am. You also know that I'm right. I have never, not once, said that a man is a bigot simply because he's uncomfortable in a shower with a gay man. But you wanted to insult me, and you knew you could revert to your, "Oh, I meant the forum as a whole. So sorry if you got lumped in, but you were carrying on a conversation with me, after all. Surely you can understand how I would get confused!"

Let me requote you so you know exactly what I'm talking about:



You were talking to me, specifically. I'm not excusing you for going on a rant about how I am saying unequivocally that someone is a bigot when I am often extremely careful not to bandy about the terms "bigot" and "homophobe." You ***** all the time when someone makes an inference into one of your posts, but then you expect me to infer into this one because you're wrong and you know you owe me an apology? Like a Marine in the shower, it doesn't go both ways, Alma.



I think it's possible, sure. I've never said otherwise, nor have I implied otherwise. My argument has always been that (1) a straight person and a homosexual person sharing a communal shower and their feelings about the situation is not the same as two people of the opposite sex sharing a shower and their feelings about the situation and (2) this so-called "privacy issue" that the military brass and yourself want to pretend is a reason not to repeal DADT is a bunch of *********



No. Your entire argument from the beginning has been that the repeal of DADT should be held off until these "privacy issues" that don't really exist can be ironed out.



I honestly hadn't given it much thought. I was honestly asking you to back up your claims that a person could remain unbigotted in that situation. You were unable to articulate your point (again) so I remain undecided. I think there are a vast number of guys who are uncomfortable in that situation because of a bigotted viewpoint, but I don't think that's the only explanation. I would have to think on it some more, honestly.

You talk in large, convoluted circles. It takes multiple people forever to figure out what your point or position is, because you treat it as if it were a riddle or a secret. Then once they finally peg it down, you chide them for having wasted so much time-- a lot less time than you spend raveling these messy mysteries in the first place. But for you, it's all a game! Haha, those mortal fools!

Little did you realize (though I've said it to you outright?) that I only talk to you for my own amusement. So essentially, at best, you think you're the mastermind of this cat and mouse game, when in reality you're like the Wile E Coyote to my Roadrunner. More likely, you just don't know how to have a discussion like a mature adult.




Not all women are the same size either, genius. A small man has to deal with whatever discomfort he feels given that he lives in a world where he is constantly surrounded by men who are larger than he-- men who's of likeliness to cornhole him are among the least of his worries (again, unless he's in prison). If as a smaller man, you can deal with the constant, far greater threat of being in a physical altercation with a larger man, then showering with teh gheys should really be pretty far from your list of concerns.

Your observation is that the difference between a small and large man is in many cases the same as the difference between the average man and woman. Are you really too stupid to realize then that the difference is double between a larger man and the average woman? That in many cases, there's a difference of 100 lbs rather than 50? Does that in any way help you to understand the distinction between a man's fear of showering with men and a woman's?



The latter is really all the reason you need to treat the person as a plaything, but an excellent articulation of why you shouldn't treat Alma as the variety of person you would engage in an actual discussion with (e.g., normal).

I've learned that Alma doesn't personally know one single gay man.

The (most) ludicrous part about this is that it's not an argument against gays in the military, but against DADT.

Actually I think what people want is a source that supports your position that gay men in a shower with straight men is the same as straight men in a shower with women. So before you change your argument for the 3rd time. Answer my question from page 2.

If you are already serving with gay men, are already living/showering with gay men. What difference does DADT make, outside allowing those gay men to come out, and in retrospect allow you to avoid those men if you feel uncomfortable. So I ask again, what is your issue, either you can tolerate gays, or you can't, either you are a bigot, or you are not.

Ill repeat this again because I am sure your mind has already tried to skew what I said for your own awkward outlook on things. You already live/shower with gay men, the only thing that is changing is those gay men can say if they are or not. So either you can tolerate being around gay men (like you do now unknowingly) or you can't (knowingly) which means you are either a bigot or you are not.