If you find a nude office let me know.
How does nudity have any part in the discrimination of sex in the office? Answer my questions. Why aren't men and women separated in the office? Why are they separated in the bathroom? Now, every bathroom have stalls and urinal dividers.
Look the reason men and women are asked to shower separately is because a long long time ago the wonder Catholic Church deemed it inappropriate to see the other sex naked. This has carried on through society for hundreds and hundreds of years.
It is not something new that was made up to make women or men feel comfortable, it was something that was made up to prevent the possibility of sins. This was done way back when the church ruled the world. Long before equal rights movements, long before free speech movements long before people had any rights at all, other than the right to worship God.
Personally I think anyone should be able to shower together regardless of sex, but that is not how it works, and because of hundreds and hundreds of years and generation after generation of teaching children that nudity is wrong here we are.
Overlooking the fact that you're just making up crap that sounds good to you, your argument is "well that's the way it has always been, so why change?".
The reason in this case that it is discriminatory is you are stating that gay men and gay women are not men or women. You are asking to have them separated further. Gay men can like the same things, and perform the same tasks as straight men, likewise for gay women. The only thing that is different is their sexual orientation, in the sense gay men are attracted to men, and gay women are attracted to women. Other than that there is nothing different about them.
No, this isn't about treating homosexuals differently than their sex, but treating them the same in reference to the situation regardless of their sex. The real reason is about comfort. People don't feel comfortable with the possibility of someone looking at them while being nude. That's the bottom line. So, society has segregated men from women for modesty reasons. Now in 2011, more people are open about their sexuality and so the same concerns exist with men as they do gay men. So, they are treated the same, segregated for comfort reasons in the showers. If this separation occurred in the office, then you could claim unjustified discrimination.
Now like I said I think everyone should have to shower together, this is not because I am some sex crazed pervert, If I want to see naked women I have the internet. But that just isn't how our societies work. Like I said before, if someone is uncomfortable then there are roads they can take to get comfortable. It is no different then any other workplace, you have a discomfort with someone you avoid them, notify your super, leave.
So, if society agreed to the ban of homosexuality in the military, you would be ok with that?
Separating homosexuals because they have a different sexual orientation is discrimination of their sexual orientation, it didn't work for separating Blacks and whites in schools, and it didn't work for separating boys and girls in schools. It would not surprise me that one day women and men were able to see each other naked again. But that won't happen until society itself accepts that it is not a sin, and that we give up a stupid rule imposed on us by the corrupt organization that was responsible for the most wonderful period in our history, the dark ages.
Dude, really? You're not helping your team.
1) Separate But Equal didn't work because it wasn't equal, not because it was separate. People fought to end that because the only way to be treated equally was to not be separated. This stupid belief that black people wanted to hold hands and work and live along side white people is beyond delusional.
2. No one is arguing that gay people shouldn't be able to work along side or go to school along side heterosexuals.
3. What do you mean All Boys/Girls schools *didn't* work, they still exist.
I know what you are saying, and ive not disagreed with your reasoning, I only disagree with your solution, it is ineffective, and is full of bigotry. The best solution is the same one we have everywhere else in society, if you are uncomfortable deal with it appropriately. Gay men are men, Gay women are women, there is nothing differet about them and therefor they should not be forced to be separated further because a few people are legitimately uncomfortable. (I say legitimately because most of the people complaining only do so because they hate homosexuality.)
I like how you said "most" in your reference to making stuff up. Hating homosexuality has nothing to do with the comfort of not wanting to be checked out in the shower. There are women that I don't want checking me out in the shower. As I said, people like you, are only using hate speech as a way to scare people to agreeing with you. I hate thieves and liars, but I have no concern with them in the shower unless they are checking me out, regardless of sex. You're trying to make this about sex when it's about modesty and comfort.
Lastly, in every major country that has open service, there have not been reports of gays being any issue. In canada I think we have had maybe 5 cases of harassment in all the years it has been like this. Your argument is just simply not realistic. Unless of course it is based on a predetermined position on gay people, most people just do not give a sh*t.
Look at nude beaches.. The same argument can be made there, so why are we separating by sex? Oh, that's right, because people do care.
If you believe that there were only 5 cases in Canada where a homosexual at least checked out a heterosexual, you're sadly mistaken. As stated earlier, there was this Soldier in my last unit that was sexually assaulted by a homosexual, that's 20% of your claimed cases.
Your statement is implying that I believe their would be a noticeable increase in sexual harassment/assault cases with homosexuals. That isn't my argument. I'm not concerned with the numbers, because I don't know. My argument is that a man can feel uncomfortable with the idea that someone might be checking him out and not be a bigot/homophobe based on the same reasons used by women.
Sir X wrote:
Alma, when people use discriminate they are referring to these definitions most of the time. You arguing about the ability to discriminate between apples and oranges is irrelevant because that's a different definition, and you very well know how they are using it. It is a completely correct use, and in this use discrimination is inherently wrong.
It is not inherently wrong because within that definition it states "where no reasonable
distinction exists between the favored and disfavored classes"
I gave him and Belkira a chance to explain the reasonable distinction
between the groups. Stating the distinction (i.e. penis vs vagina) is not stating the reason for discriminating against the penis and vagina. I'm not asking you what you're discriminating, I'm asking why are you discriminating against the two?
For example, RDD said that women have extra time to run in the military because they run slower. That is a reason for discriminating against having a penis. You can't say, women have extra time to run because men have penises. That doesn't make sense. So, along that same line of thinking, I want a justification for the segregation of men and women in the showers.