I'll be in IRC explaining why Obama can't win.Follow

If there is a pol out there who is more inclined than McCain-- based on actual projects and legislation, not just rhetoric, mind you --to work with the party across the aisle, I'd like to hear his or her name.

Lieberman.

Christ, that was easy.

When are you gonna stop with these ridiculously stupid and innaccurate comparaisons? Serisouly. Think. Thiiiiiiiiiink.

You're comparing 1930 German voters with Obama supporters today, saying both vote blindingly for "change". You really think the 1930 Germans didn't about stuff like, say, Mein Kampf, the Jews, the Versaille Treaty, communism, fascism, 50% unemployment rates, the black shirts, Mussolini. You really think all they heard was "change"?! Are you really that thick to think that your comparaison has any validity whatsoever?



I was talking the "consistency in his message" of "change", as opposed to the hypocrisy of Clinton's claim that she, also, represents "change". You just find the stupidest and most irrelevant example that "change can be bad". Really? Change can be bad?! So like, if you're healthy and you get cancer that's "bad"?

Maybe the reason no one wants to play your game and tell you why they like Obama is because:

a) they already have and you don't listen, going on a tangeant instead.
b) you're an idiot.
c) a combination of the above.

The black shirts were blackshirts, the brown shirts were brownshirts. I was referring to the former, since in the early 30s the march of the Mussolinin's blackshirt had had quite of an impact on the psyche of the whole of Europe, while the brownshirts were at the time not much more than slightly violent political muscle.

But yeah, minor quibble I agree.

the repubs are going to loose in november no matter who wins the dem nomination. mccain let bush nail his coffin shut by trying to run on a "iraq was a good thing" platform right along party lines. and then stating the economy is in good shape.

even repubs are sick of repubs. gona be alot of them sitting out on this election.

the numbers clinton and obama are turning out for these primaries are increadable. especially in light of the very poor numbers the repubs are turning out. the money they are raising is just staggering.

it doesnt really matter who wins the nomination, mccain is going to loose in november. badly.

my money is on obama. even right now, unless clinton finds some way to make a do over in florida and michigan, something neither the states nor the DNC wants to pay for even though they are all for it in "theory", there is no way clinton can catch obama with either the popular vote or the number of deligates.

and that "3am phone call" wont work again. people have had time to think about it now, and understand that the ONLY person with that type of experience on day one would be an incumbant president getting reelected for a second term. clinton doesnt have it, mccain doesnt have it, nor does anyone else have it unless they have been a seated president. it was a good last minute trick pulled at the perfect time, but it wont fly again./

she is trying to sell voters a box of fear. just like the repubs did with so much sucess over the last 7 years.

obama on the other hand is just selling himself and outselling her in the process.

my money is on obama.

You're still not getting it. I don't want you to refer to his website. I've read it. Several times.

I want you, in your own words to explain to me what about his platform you agree with and why.

Is that so freaking hard?


And Joph? For the record, I was going to respond to that thread you linked, but the forum went on one of it's crashing binges and I never got around to it. Every single one of your links is basically some reporter writing an article about how some far left liberal group thinks Bush is doing something nasty.

Just looking at the first link, does "allowing individual students to pray on their own" actually qualify as "pushing prayer in schools"? Are you seriously arguing that this is what the issue is about? I could have sworn it had to do with a school making some kind of prayer "official" in some way, or requiring students to attend or participate, etc...


And also for the record, that's the same sort of bogus argument for McCain's supposed flip-flopping. He was asked whether he'd be ok with US troops in Iraq for 50 years (reference to a statement by Bush). He said, yeah, even 100 years would be ok, as long as it was in a format more like how our troops are in German and Japan. He very specifically stated that he would not support the current levels of operation (and fighting) for 100 years.

To take that, and then say he's flip flopped when he basically says the same thing later requires a pretty creative interpretation of what he originally said. It's not even remotely the same thing...

You know why obama will win? Our Political cartoon masters are sitting in dark rooms gleefully counting the numerous and funny things that rhyme with Obama. The Cartoonluminati of course run all society and ensure that the candidate with the highest humor potential name wins. Thats how Bush got in. And Polk.

Quite frankly, I know that would be a waste of my time. Why do you need to see it "in my own words?" My reasons for supporting him are there on the website and easily accessible, end of story. I do not see any reason for making it easier for you when you clearly seem to lack a proper understanding of his platform.

My theory is that you're trying to prove a point about me, and/or other Obama supporters, that at least for this forum is not there to be made (that we are all mindless lemmings following a man because has a strong voice and a nice little message, and are incapable of making our own decisions.) I do not see why I have to feed into this erroneous belief and prove you wrong.

Additionally, I must say I never saw you make a truly compelling argument why for instance, Mitt Romney should have been elected, so I'm not sure why you are insisting that I return the favor.

Because I want to know why *you* support him. I don't need a listing of his platform. You are allowed to have opinions of things. I'm just curious what yours are.




So you got your opinions on things like education, the environment, health care, and foreign policy by reading his website? Or are you suggesting that he magically happens to match exactly what you believe 100%, with no variation at all? I find that hard to believe...

And it becomes harder to believe that this is the same condition for every single Obama supporter. You all just coincidentally hold exactly the same views on everything. Right...




I understand his platform just fine. I disagree with many things on his platform, but that's not really the issue here. I want to know what about his platform you like and don't like, and why. Because usually when people say "I like X", they can say why they like X. And give reasons beyond just pointing at what someone else wrote.



I see. You're not a mindless lemming, but you apparently get your entire political ideology by reading his website.

How about if we do this another way? Can you name a single thing you *don't* agree with Obama's website on?



First off, let's compare apples to apples, shall we? Giving a "truly compelling argument why ... Mitt Romney should have been elected" is an argument for why he should have gotten more votes then say John McCain. That requires arguing about what other people should have done, and is far outside the scope of what I'm asking of you.

I'm asking why *you* support Obama. I'm not asking you to argue with me why he's the best candidate. I just want to know what about his platform and policies and even about him that you like.


And I most certainly did have a whole huge discussion on this board about Mitt Romney and why I voted for him. I mentioned my concerns with McCain. I covered Mitt's position on abortion. I mentioned his experience as Governor. I answered numerous questions about him and tallied what things about him I agree with, and which ones I don't.

And guess what? It wasn't hard for me to say several things I didn't agree with him on 100%. Cause that's normal. The odds of any single candidate matching *exactly* what you believe politically is pretty much near zero. The fact that you apparently are in lockstep agreement with Obama should be a huge ringing warning sign that either you are willfully ignoring aspects of his platform, or that you are in fact just mindlessly following him and adopting whatever platform he puts forth as "the best" simply because you think he's dreamy or something...

Gbaji is apparently misinterpreting "I'm blowing you off by saying 'go read his website' because I don't care enough to get into it with you" as "I believe every single thing on his website 100%".

I see subtlety and nuance are lost on you, Big Guy.

I'll tell you what, though. Why don't you come up with at least three things you sincerely agree with Obama on. Not backhanded insults r "damned with faint priase" riffs but three things that, if Obama were elected, you could sincrely say "Well, he'll probably at least do this..." After all, you say you're well versed on his issues and policies and, if you ARE 100% against absolutely everything Obama thinks, there's really no reason to try to have a discourse with you.

Edited, Mar 10th 2008 5:24pm by Jophiel

Ah yes, in case anyone forgot:

Gbaji wouldn't know subtle even if it hit him in the forehead, wrapped around a lead brick.

When I ask someone why they support a candidate, and they refuse to state their own reasons, but instead tell me to "read his website", what other conclusion am I to reach?

That they're laughing at you demanding their reasons for supporting a candidate when you can barely stand upright?

Just a guess.